Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default But if you call now.....!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I love my 10-22 on my 50D. But there's some days I just wanna step a little closer but either A)I'm on top of a mountain looking at a train and if i step closer I'll splatter or B)If I step closer the angle isn't what I want or the angle is not too bad but now I just put a bunch of weeds obstructing everything. So, I've elected to fill the gap between my 10-22 and my 70-300L (F4 unfortunately). I was looking into getting the 17-40L which would be an improvement but I'm cutting it a bit short on the far end, which I don't think is going to kill me as bad as the far end of the 10-22. 48mm of gap to fill or 30mm of gap to fill. Doesn't sound like much, but I'm pretty sure it'll make things a bit easier. And I just want another excuse to splurge on L glass . Any other lens you guys would suggest? Or would the 17-40L be perfect in my arsenal?

The reason for my title is, BH offers a buy it now option (I think adorama does too, but I'm a BH guy), has anyone had experience with this? They're offering a pay in full in 6 months (I think) an no interest. Which I would be doing anyways. I have the funds now but like before with the 10-22 issue I had, I'd be empty in the bank by the time I buy it, and with just buying a house and 20 thousand more bills added on, I can't just outright pay for it. I can handle another low cost bill but not draining my bank account, haha.

Any of your opinions on either subject are appreciated.

Ben

BTW, sorry for the bit OT but this forum seems the place to post this sorta stuff.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:39 PM   #2
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After initially crucifing my Sigma 17 to 70 mm, I actually like it a lot. I'd suggest it or a Canon equivalent. I think I use it more now than my 10 to 22 or the 70 to 200 f4L.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:07 AM   #3
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Agreed with Joe, from what I've seen and heard the Sigma 17-70 is an excellent lens.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:16 AM   #4
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The reason for my title is, BH offers a buy it now option (I think adorama does too, but I'm a BH guy), has anyone had experience with this? They're offering a pay in full in 6 months (I think) an no interest. Which I would be doing anyways. I have the funds now but like before with the 10-22 issue I had, I'd be empty in the bank by the time I buy it, and with just buying a house and 20 thousand more bills added on, I can't just outright pay for it. I can handle another low cost bill but not draining my bank account, haha.
I'll try not to be too insulting. I guess it isn't that insulting if you are thinking about doing what millions and millions of Americans do all the time. So I'm not singling you out, you are just the current example of a broader issue.

But...

Life is sending you a big signal, a slap in the face. It is telling you that you shouldn't lay out more money. I don't care if you can "handle" it, if you can live a little closer to the financial edge, if you can have one more toy. Find ways not to do that. Find ways to - gasp, perish the thought! - save. Find ways to - gasp - make an extra mortgage payment every year!

If you can't outright pay for something, and it isn't a house (maybe a car), don't buy it, set yourself up for your future.

Remember that when I retire you are paying for my Social Security. Make sure you have enough! Thanks so much!

/SOAPBOX
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:41 AM   #5
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You have a 50MM? I use that all the time. best $90 I ever spent.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:56 AM   #6
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I'll try not to be too insulting. I guess it isn't that insulting if you are thinking about doing what millions and millions of Americans do all the time. So I'm not singling you out, you are just the current example of a broader issue.

But...

Life is sending you a big signal, a slap in the face. It is telling you that you shouldn't lay out more money. I don't care if you can "handle" it, if you can live a little closer to the financial edge, if you can have one more toy. Find ways not to do that. Find ways to - gasp, perish the thought! - save. Find ways to - gasp - make an extra mortgage payment every year!

If you can't outright pay for something, and it isn't a house (maybe a car), don't buy it, set yourself up for your future.

Remember that when I retire you are paying for my Social Security. Make sure you have enough! Thanks so much!

/SOAPBOX
Dave Ramsey would agree.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:56 AM   #7
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If you can't outright pay for something, and it isn't a house (maybe a car), don't buy it, set yourself up for your future.
This is why I don't have a 5D MkII yet, or a new laptop to replace the one that my girlfriend laughs at every time I type faster than it can keep pace with. Yeah, I'd love to have all the fancy features that the MkII comes with and the ability to work on a system that allows me to have more than two high-demand programs open at any one time, but I'd much rather not have to worry about finding ways to meet all of life's financial obligations.

Thanks for injecting some common sense into this hobby, Janusz. It's not always about having the most awesome toys, but sometimes just finding ways to enjoy what you already own.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:57 AM   #8
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After initially crucifing my Sigma 17 to 70 mm, I actually like it a lot. I'd suggest it or a Canon equivalent. I think I use it more now than my 10 to 22 or the 70 to 200 f4L.
Wow Joe, that is a change

I have the Sigma 17-70mm on a T1i that is pretty much my main lens. And I didn't have to take out a loan.

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Old 06-01-2011, 03:09 AM   #9
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I'll try not to be too insulting. I guess it isn't that insulting if you are thinking about doing what millions and millions of Americans do all the time. So I'm not singling you out, you are just the current example of a broader issue.

But...

Life is sending you a big signal, a slap in the face. It is telling you that you shouldn't lay out more money. I don't care if you can "handle" it, if you can live a little closer to the financial edge, if you can have one more toy. Find ways not to do that. Find ways to - gasp, perish the thought! - save. Find ways to - gasp - make an extra mortgage payment every year!

If you can't outright pay for something, and it isn't a house (maybe a car), don't buy it, set yourself up for your future.

Remember that when I retire you are paying for my Social Security. Make sure you have enough! Thanks so much!

/SOAPBOX
What he said.

You're doing just fine without this lens. Build your bank account up till you have at least a couple months worth of money socked away just in case. Stretching yourself thin just so you can fill a gap in your lens range and have more L glass is just ridiculous in my mind. If a major financial hardship suddenly came up, you'd really wish you hadn't sprung for that lens. Everyone is free to set their own priorities in life, but for me, there are a few things that rank ahead of rail photography and the toys that go with it, and being financially secure is one of them.

If the gap in your range bothers you that much, look into either a decent non-L lens or something used, or both. I wanted a wide angle lens, but since I wouldn't use it that often, it wasn't worth springing for a new L lens. I picked up a used one from a lens rental company for quite a bit less, and it looked flawless when I received it, because they really take care of their lenses. The suggestion for the 50 1.8 is a good one, because it's inexpensive, has a good reputation, and is right in the middle of your gap. You also might check Craigslist or ebay for 28-135s or 17-85s. There should be plenty of them floating around, they fill your gap nicely, and they should be cheap.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:36 AM   #10
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Just a thought here, maybe to strike a balance. As far as the lens, the idea to get the 50mm might be the best. It is affordable and fits right where you need it. Meanwhile, you can accept the well intentioned advice of Janusz to save up for what you think you want. Your mind might change in the meantime, or your situation might and you want the money for something else. Part of the fun in life is the anticipation...

That said, Ben DID buy a house, so he must be doing something right, so let's give him some credit for that (no pun intended). I think there is in fact a place for 0% financing, but really for people who can afford to buy an item outright. I have no problem getting an interest free loan for a year and a half to buy something I need, so I say take full advantage of that when you can. I bought a plasma TV when they first came out, and while expensive I did the 2 year 0% deal and managed quite well. While it was cool to have even the cable guys drool over the set I had hanging on the wall, the fact that I could hang it allowed me to eliminate the entertainment cabinet that took up a third of my little TV room. It was like I enlarged the entire room but without the cost of remodeling, and no more would I have to slide the coffee table back so the dog could get by to get outside.

Oh, and the extra mortgage payment isn't always the best move. If you are planning to move out of the house you're in before the mortgage is paid off it seems rather pointless, and if you have a low 4's interest rate and don't plan to move you aren't really going to be hurt in 27 years with a few more years left on your mortgage, which will by then be way less than a new car payment...or new L glass for that matter. Better to save it for retirement, IMO. For now, we won't get into whether or not a Roth IRA is best for Ben, but I'm betting it would be better than depending on Social Security .

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Old 06-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #11
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That said, Ben DID buy a house, so he must be doing something right, so let's give him some credit for that (no pun intended).
I have no idea, and I am not questioning that decision of Ben's. But for completeness, and again I am not at all saying this applies to Ben, but if one looks around the country, one certainly sees the results of many families having done what turned out not to be right for them. AKA, the foreclosure crisis. We can get into the debate of how much to blame the lenders and how much to blame the borrowers, but this is not that sort of forum. So the purchase of a house is in general a good sign as to a person's stability, and settling down is a great thing!, but sometimes the devil is in the details.

Quote:
Oh, and the extra mortgage payment isn't always the best move. If you are planning to move out of the house you're in before the mortgage is paid off it seems rather pointless, and if you have a low 4's interest rate and don't plan to move you aren't really going to be hurt in 27 years with a few more years left on your mortgage, which will by then be way less than a new car payment...or new L glass for that matter. Better to save it for retirement, IMO. For now, we won't get into whether or not a Roth IRA is best for Ben, but I'm betting it would be better than depending on Social Security .
I might be climbing back onto my soapbox again, but if you don't understand why making an extra mortgage payment is good, and if you don't understand that making that extra payment is itself a form of saving, or has the very same effect on one's financial situation, then, well, maybe one needs to learn a little more about personal finance.

/soapbox, again
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:18 PM   #12
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I might be climbing back onto my soapbox again, but if you don't understand why making an extra mortgage payment is good, and if you don't understand that making that extra payment is itself a form of saving, or has the very same effect on one's financial situation, then, well, maybe one needs to learn a little more about personal finance.

/soapbox, again
Sound advice J, one a year or better will show a much better bottom line a few years down the road due to the lower total interest paid allowing the loan to complete sooner. One a quarter is even better if possible.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #13
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Thanks for the sound advice guys. Yea....I think I'll just "step closer" for now and wait for new glass. I'd rather outright pay for the darned thing anyways. Better peace of mind. Thanks again! But how about we keep the debate open for glass anyways. That sigma looks like a nice lens. In fact I was going to at first purchase that lens but decided against it to go canon. Lets keep it goin guys!

Ben
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:19 PM   #14
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We would all love to have the top of the line everything in life. Don't let the material wants override common sense. One day I want to grow up and shoot with better glass, but I'm not putting my family at financial risk (wife + 2 sons) just to satisfy my hobby.

And the 50mm f1.8 is a turd for night shooting with light sources in the frame

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Old 06-01-2011, 11:53 PM   #15
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I have no idea, and I am not questioning that decision of Ben's. But for completeness, and again I am not at all saying this applies to Ben, but if one looks around the country, one certainly sees the results of many families having done what turned out not to be right for them. AKA, the foreclosure crisis. We can get into the debate of how much to blame the lenders and how much to blame the borrowers, but this is not that sort of forum. So the purchase of a house is in general a good sign as to a person's stability, and settling down is a great thing!, but sometimes the devil is in the details.



I might be climbing back onto my soapbox again, but if you don't understand why making an extra mortgage payment is good, and if you don't understand that making that extra payment is itself a form of saving, or has the very same effect on one's financial situation, then, well, maybe one needs to learn a little more about personal finance.

/soapbox, again
Well, Janusz, it looks like you won and Ben is going to listen to you. LOL. Wise choice. However, I am posting this response in view of the fact that budgeting one's finances properly may allow for the purchase of new lenses, to keep within the purpose of this forum

I am of like mind with most here that living beyond one's means is something to be avoided at all costs. I also fully understand the desire to pay off a mortgage early, which can be fine for many people. I understand that the extra payment is a form of savings and why this is good. However, my point is that it is not ALWAYS the best place to put your money.

Indulge me momentarily for just one example: If you have a mortgage at 4.5% like mine, and you itemize your tax returns like I do, then you have a very cheap loan whose interest is tax deductible. If your payment is $1000 per month (not mine, but I am in So Cal) then we are talking about putting about $1000 per year somewhere. Paying off the above mortgage is going to get you a guaranteed return of about 3% after considering the tax deduction. If you can't beat that by, say, putting that $1000 into a 401K with company matching and investing all that in stocks and such (what I did) then maybe you need some help with personal finance too!

If you can do both strategies, great, but if you only have the money to do one then you have a choice to make.

PS And again, if you aren't planning to stay in the house for a long time, prepaying the mortgage is not going to do much for your bottom line.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:26 AM   #16
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When all I had was a 10-22, 100-400 and 50mm, I just waited until I had enough money...and that's that.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:27 AM   #17
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I will simply say that, at times, Heymon, you were less than clear in expressing yourself. I myself was less than clear in saying making an extra mortgage payment was an option; I did not intend to say it is the first option or the best option. It was just an example option, albeit a good one at times.

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PS And again, if you aren't planning to stay in the house for a long time, prepaying the mortgage is not going to do much for your bottom line.
Saving is saving, regardless of how long you are going to stay in the house. When you sell the house, you roll that money over to a new house, or you put it elsewhere, it is still savings. For the life of the mortgage, however long you hold it, it is an investment with a guaranteed return, lower in expected return but with greater certainty than a 401k.

The biggest problem with a mortgate paydown, in my view, is that it is an illiquid investment.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:06 PM   #18
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For the life of the mortgage, however long you hold it, it is an investment with a guaranteed return, lower in expected return but with greater certainty than a 401k.

The biggest problem with a mortgate paydown, in my view, is that it is an illiquid investment.
Couldn't resist jumping in (late) on this after that...

Not to be overly technical but that "guaranteed return" viewpoint of real estate contributed just as much to the mtg crisis as zero down variable rate loans and such. My house is still only worth 70-80% what I paid for it 4-5 years ago with no sign of that going up anytime soon. I'm financially secure with savings etc and in it for the long haul but I broke even on my first house and have lost considerable equity in my second in my first dozen or so years as a homeowner. People trying to retire on the equity in their house in the last half dozen or so years or for the next half dozen or so might find themselves worse off than had they been in the stock market so "greater certainty than a 401k" doesn't quite cut it either. My mutual funds are more or less flat over the last 10 yrs vs. my home being down 20-30%.

As a final point - mtg paydown isn't *completely* illiquid - you can always take out a home equity line (presuming you have enough equity to do so which you likely would if you're paying down the loan in an accelerated fashion). Yes you're paying interest but that's probably actually better than the tax penalty hit of early withdrawal from a qualified retirement plan. I was doing an accelerated paydown with higher rates on my first house 10 years ago but for how low my rate is now it's "cheap money" so I'm in no rush to pay it down quicker.

To bring it back on topic - I had to laugh at Dave Honan's comment because I'd love a 5D MkII but don't have one for pretty much the same reasons he stated.

Also - I have the Sigma 17-70 and am very happy with it. Then this spring I bought a Canon 18-135 IS as an "upgrade" but have been finding that the 17-70 was a consistently better performer than the new Canon glass. I have a Canon 70-300 IS that's always been a great performer but I can't seem to get a shorter zoom Canon to complement it well (already thinking of going back to the Sigma lens and selling the new Canon one). While I'd love the 5D MkII with L glass I can't justify spending that kind of money when I've got a bathroom that needs remodeled, windows that should get replaced, etc...

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Old 06-03-2011, 06:54 PM   #19
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When all I had was a 10-22, 100-400 and 50mm, I just waited until I had enough money...and that's that.
I'm going to bite my tongue Hicks, because I like you!

My 10-22mm is broken now.. Could you send me yours?

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Old 06-03-2011, 07:39 PM   #20
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I'm going to bite my tongue Hicks, because I like you!

My 10-22mm is broken now.. Could you send me yours?

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Old 06-03-2011, 08:10 PM   #21
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Couldn't resist jumping in (late) on this after that...

Not to be overly technical but that "guaranteed return" viewpoint of real estate contributed just as much to the mtg crisis as zero down variable rate loans and such. My house is still only worth 70-80% what I paid for it 4-5 years ago with no sign of that going up anytime soon. I'm financially secure with savings etc and in it for the long haul but I broke even on my first house and have lost considerable equity in my second in my first dozen or so years as a homeowner. People trying to retire on the equity in their house in the last half dozen or so years or for the next half dozen or so might find themselves worse off than had they been in the stock market so "greater certainty than a 401k" doesn't quite cut it either. My mutual funds are more or less flat over the last 10 yrs vs. my home being down 20-30%.
In no way am I talking about returns to real estate, but rather returns to prepayment on a mortgage. If you treat your mortgage as an obligation, if you have no intention of walking away from your debts, then the value of underlying house is of no relevance to the calculation. If you have a mortgage balance of 100k at 5%, then it doesn't matter whether the house is worth 50k or 300k now, you are still getting a guaranteed return of 5% (pre-tax) whenever you make an extra payment on it.

Quote:
As a final point - mtg paydown isn't *completely* illiquid - you can always take out a home equity line (presuming you have enough equity to do so which you likely would if you're paying down the loan in an accelerated fashion).
Oops, I should have said less liquid, thanks for the correction. Of course, in some parts of the country home values have collapsed so much that people who paid down in an accelerated fashion still may have ended up underwater.

PS I was very happy with the Sigma 17-70 I used to use.
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:56 AM   #22
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Wow Joe, that is a change
Yeah, tell me about it.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:22 PM   #23
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Back to the lens business, as opposed to the financial advice, if I were looking to fill the range between the 10-22 and a 70-whatever, I'd be thinking about the 24-70 2.8L or, for a little more flexibility and a little less cost, the 24-105 4L. If I had the money, that is. As it stands now, I have a 28-105 3.5-4.5 Macro USM that I'm pretty happy with . . .

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Old 06-10-2011, 10:57 PM   #24
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If you check ebay you can find Canon 28-105 lenses for just over a hundred bucks. I've used them before and they're not spectacular, but they get the job done. Then once you have the funds built you replace it with better glass like the 24-70L or the 24-105L.
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