Old 12-01-2010, 03:17 PM   #1
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Default Should I take it?

So, I wouldnít consider it for just anyone, but its AmtrakÖ An Amtrak rep just emailed me asking to use my photo for in some briefings and presentations in the next few months. However, he said he didnít have a budget for compensation aside from photo credit. If I get a reasonable contract, I donít feel like Iíll get scammed and I do think it would be awesome to have a photo used by Amtrak. I donít think Iíd be able to extract much cash out of it, though, because it is an easily repeatable photo. What do yíall think I should do?

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Old 12-01-2010, 03:43 PM   #2
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a) I have no idea, not having been in this position myself

this of course authorizes me to commment and vent at will ...

b) if a reasonably major sized corporation like Amtrak wont pay for photography, WHO WILL? Have we basically arrived at a point where photos are free? This doesn't surprise me, just for some reason it is hitting me with greater force today than on other days

c) hard to believe Amtrak can't come up with at least a two-digit compensation. They can't come up with $50? $25? I suppose there is the internal Amtrak hassle of processing the payment, which makes it actually cost them much more. Ask the guy if he can pay you out of pocket and submit a receipt for reimbursement.
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:56 PM   #3
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I have seen that certain parts of Amtrak do not have a budget. Commercial Amtrak has a budget but government Amtrak doesn't.

Commercial - http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...mtrak/HomePage

Government - http://www.amtrakoig.gov/(S(0lkequ45...)/default.aspx

I wish I had better answer then that but everyone is making their own price they are willing to pay for everything instead of a set fee like it use to be. That is what happens when the supply and demand scale gets maxed out on the supply side. If you get rid of the internet that will solve the problem. Since that isn't going to happen, it is up to you and what you want to do. If you hold out you may get paid, they may move on but it will not make a difference for the photography marketplace.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:13 PM   #4
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Thanks guys, I think I'll ask for a small fee like J mentioned, but I went to the gov site and an RP shot was on the front page. They must like us.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
I went to the gov site and an RP shot was on the front page. They must like us.
They have a lot of RP shots there and they rotate weekly.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:32 PM   #6
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My thought is that the photo is generic, in that there are no real corporate logos, etc. shown. This makes the shot more like a "stock photo" to me (the kinds of shots you see in brochures and stuff), but that does not mean it is worthless. Still, I don't think Amtrak is asking for the shot because it necessarily shows off Amtrak, but it does fill a spot in their presentation or briefing or whatever. They could probably find a similar type shot in a stock photo gallery and pay a buck or two for it (or whatever stock galleries charge) but your shot maybe fills the need just as well.

If it were me, I'd let them use it as long as it is in house stuff. If you try to charge I think they will say no. You could put it on a stock art site and point Amtrak to it if you want to, but your gain from one sale (even if Amtrak did it) would be pretty meager from what I know. It could be a big seller in the stock art world, though, but you would have to sell a lot to make a meaningful profit. Anyway, I now see you have decided to charge a small fee, so I hope I am wrong and good luck.

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Old 12-01-2010, 04:37 PM   #7
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There's a difference (in my opinion) between using a shot commercially for advertising purposes and an employee using a shot for a presentation. Sometimes the good will of helping with the later will lead to opportunities that result in paid shots for the former.

Considering the shot is of a signal and not necessarily something "Amtrak", I'm assuming the shot would be used in an internal training environment. Perhaps is you allow them to use it in good faith, you can bargain for some sort of non-financial compensation.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:39 PM   #8
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It's also not the best of quality.. Looks like too much noise removal from used.. Not sure if it looks any better on the original.

My 0.2 is to just let them use it, as long as you keep the copyright. Charging a couple dollars isn't really worth the ink used to print out and sign the contract. Besides as states by Andre, it may just cause Amtrak to look elsewhere.

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Old 12-01-2010, 07:41 PM   #9
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Counter offer them, say you dont need money, but would accept some sort of free trip voucher...
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
Counter offer them, say you dont need money, but would accept some sort of free trip voucher...
I just got the email from them... One issue for me about free trip voucher, I already ride anywhere for free... Perks of being related to an AMTK manager.


Mr. Welch,

I work in Amtrak's Government Affairs office, and I was wondering whether it would be possible for us to obtain your permission to use the shot you took and posted online at:


Image © Steven M. Welch
PhotoID: 303167
Photograph © Steven M. Welch


I would like to use this in briefings and other presentations that we expect to put together in the coming months. I unfortunately don't have the budget to offer you payment for your work, but we will be glad to give you photo credit.

Best Regards,

I'm not saying his name.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:33 PM   #11
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Did you get that today?

Maybe I should have asked for a trip voucher, I could use one to Atlanta next week.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:37 PM   #12
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Did you get that today?
Got it about 5 minutes ago... Replied, I don't want no damn trip voucher, so I just asked if they can keep it in-house only and not for anything else.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:04 PM   #13
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I got this one a few weeks ago, but haven't responded yet. Probably too late now.

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Hi, I'm a web designer at Amtrak and I'd like to know what you would charge to use this photo as a background for one of our Holiday e-cards. Amtrak.com offers free e-card greetings every year for the holiday season. The e-cards are typically available after Thanksgiving and remain on the site through the end of December. Please let me know.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:06 PM   #14
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KATO wasnt willing to pay me, so we negotiated and I got a good deal. Now its all over MR and their website.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:17 AM   #15
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There is something to be said about free publicity. I'm not in your situation, but I think since it's Amtrak, I'd probably try to get a free trip in sleeper or something. Or maybe a cab ride? But in the end, I'd probably say yes.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurghMan View Post
There's a difference (in my opinion) between using a shot commercially for advertising purposes and an employee using a shot for a presentation. Sometimes the good will of helping with the later will lead to opportunities that result in paid shots for the former.

Considering the shot is of a signal and not necessarily something "Amtrak", I'm assuming the shot would be used in an internal training environment. Perhaps is you allow them to use it in good faith, you can bargain for some sort of non-financial compensation.
I'm with Rich.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:47 AM   #17
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I'd shoot Amtrak more if they didn't run through here in the middle of the freaking night.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:52 AM   #18
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I got a similar request some time back, along with another RP'r. We both asked if something in leiu of payment could be worked out such as a ticket voulcher. In each case, the gal said she'd look into but in the end they found another image to use.

It's a tough market with so many outlets for images.

I'd ask for something "Is there something in lieu of payment you could offer?".
If it's no and you don't hear back, you didn't lose anything - maybe even made it
better for all of us (and you) as a group in the future. If it's yes - you decide.

I doubt this person without a budget is going to recomend you to someone else
that has a budget in the future, however, if you are looking to sell pics, you may
profit by listing this use in a portfolio. Maybe at the least, get a copy of the presentation.

Jim - seems you passed up an opportunity? Seemed they may have been in a position to pay. Seems getting paid is much easier when the request comes from outside of Amtrak. I had a similar request that turned sounded like an internal Amtrak request but was in fact an agency involved in setting up Amtrak's guest rewards program.

Travis - Not sure what the links are suggesting in relation to two version of Amtrak, one that pays and one that may not have a budget? Interesting to see the RP image. Wonder if that was a freebie? Is there an app to check the rotation?!??! They are not on my short rotation of daily sites!

PS - Pete - that's a nice shot. I think easily duplicated better describes a roster shot in the sun. Not just anyone can manage a shot like you have there. Easy to find a duplicate, perhaps, but not easily duplicated by most. I took note of your profile shot - funny. Funny, but I wonder if anyone interested in purchasing images would take that into consideration! I say leave it, I like it, but if your thinking to yourself, selling pics is something you would like to pursue, you may want to change it.

Good luck!

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Old 12-02-2010, 03:16 PM   #19
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Its done and I have a free trip because of it.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:40 PM   #20
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They must be checking all of the past year's Railpicture inventory for Amtrak photos. Yesterday I too received a request.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Its done and I have a free trip because of it.
Very nice!

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Old 12-02-2010, 04:48 PM   #22
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I think we should all request some form of compensation. We all have our own selling price but I think it is necessary that we all request something in return. We all put a lot of time and money into this hobby and in most cases deserve something in return. If we only get a few bucks or a voucher in return for our service I think it is a win for both parties involved but if people are simply going to give their photos away it kills the supply and demand.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:18 PM   #23
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Mebbe Amtrak can
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Mebbe Amtrak can
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