Old 04-20-2012, 04:25 AM   #26
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They spend a million on a new unit and I think the last thing they want to do is have it sit around when it could be out their making them money. After all that is what they are in business for to make money. If they take a picture and post it, it will make people go out and look for it, giving them lots of free PR.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:29 AM   #27
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This has to be one of the most vacuous discussions yet on this list! I left home at 5 AM, drove to Chattanooga at the invitation of NS to be there for the Interstate unit roll out. It was foggy, and we had to wait until the unit was switched from the paint shop to a position where Casey and about five or six other "invited" photographers could get the shots. The fog didn't burn off until after 11 AM, but when it did, we all got our best shots. I drove home, and got back at 6 PM---bone tired.

Wait until "better sun"? These are working locomotives, and they're placed into service as soon as the photographer(s) get a chance to capture images. Casey does a hell of a job given the huge number of variables he must deal with. Also, it's a 10-hour drive from Altoona to Chattanooga, and he's had to make that run several times during this heritage locomotive thing.

Yes, Casey is a pro. He's the corporate photographer for NS. So what if one of these shots gets 100,000 hits on RP. What's that all about? Who cares? He gets zero money for his efforts (from RP, that is). He's just doing his job (and doing it quite well, given the pressures)

Why was I there? I provided the original Alco paint diagrams for the Interstate unit, and I advised NS on the paint shades and other details.

Where are my shots of the Interstate unit? I may post a few "different" shots later, or maybe not. There are other venues of importance besides RP. If I had Picture of the Millennium, what difference would it make? (hint: none).

Yes---NS is given "first dibs" on placing shots on RP. When the Interstate unit rolled out, it was on this site within an hour and a half. So what?

I am at a loss to understand the angst in all this? Someone please enlighten me... (Joe: clearly you have the best understanding...)
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:35 AM   #28
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^ Not angst, just ranting. I dont have any issues with Casey, never met him. Your explanation was pretty good.

I just figured if NS was going to go to all this trouble, them waiting a few hours or a day to get it in good light would not be too tall an order. I guess I forgot you can count clear days on 1 hand in certain areas of the country.

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Old 04-20-2012, 04:36 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by PLEzero View Post
Maybe you're just a little butt-hurt they aren't paying you to take the photos? Judging by your photo stream I can see why they don't...

Yep, you nailed me...

My activity level here lately ought to show you how tore up I was about not being selected by NS to shoot these things.

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Old 04-20-2012, 04:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy12
you would think that RP would actually apply the same standards to these as they would to the rest of the gevo's they accept.
Thanks for making my point when I wrote this earlier today:
http://forums.railpictures.net/showp...55&postcount=5
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:44 AM   #31
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Maybe you're just a little butt-hurt they aren't paying you to take the photos? Judging by your photo stream I can see why they don't...
Not that Troy needs anyone to go to bat for him, but that statement is mighty unfair to Troy, whose photography does not need defending.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:45 AM   #32
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As a point of clarification to address one comment in this thread; yes we have rejected images from Casey/NS in the past for technical issues that were quickly remedied and later appeared on the site. Just because they are a corporation doesn't mean they will have a free pass to publication on RailPictures, although the newsworthy nature of the images does allow us to bend some of the lighting requirements that we would have in place for less newsworthy subjects.

Otherwise, I think Ron and Brad sum things up pretty well. These are newsworthy images that we welcome and look forward to sharing more of them going forward. We hope that as other railroads begin to realize the positive publicity impact RailPictures can have that we will have some other similar partnerships in the future.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Not that Troy needs anyone to go to bat for him, but that statement is mighty unfair to Troy, whose photography does not need defending.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:08 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Chris Starnes View Post
We hope that as other railroads begin to realize the positive publicity impact RailPictures can have that we will have some other similar partnerships in the future.
Actually, Chris, this raises a point I didn't feel like getting into when you previously used similar language. Not that it is my business, but I am curious, what is this "partnership" to which you refer? How is an NS-official shot treated differently? The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps you are holding other shots until the NS-official shot gets on the site. Or maybe you have agreed to not accept non-official shots of the same initial scenes? What are you doing different for NSCorp?
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:14 AM   #35
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Foamers don't care about perfect lighting and composition.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:17 AM   #36
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How is an NS-official shot treated differently? The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps you are holding other shots until the NS-official shot gets on the site. Or maybe you have agreed to not accept non-official shots of the same initial scenes?
Lets hope they are NOT doing that. That's absurd. There were some illusions to that on another, more NS centric website. They in fact DID remove photos people posted.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:19 AM   #37
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NS went to the trouble to hire someone to pay someone to shoot the units. That tells me they really dont care how they turn out...

Obviously not a professional photographer, but hey, they are paying him, right? If they really didnt care, they would just have "bubba, the second trick hostler who just got him a brand new iPhone" to shoot them



Yea, an extra few hours is really going to affect NS's ability to move freight. It's not like they are some half-ass shortline who has N-1 enough running units to actually move their freight. Look at UP. They have an SD70ACe that moves 4 times a year, and only to do it's 90 day inspections (UP4141 George Bush unit)




Honestly this is the dumbest response yet. The quality of some of these shots is about on par with someone's flickr stream (no offense to some of the QUALITY flickr photostreams out there) or rrpicturearchives.

I should be happy they show up on railpictures first? Why exactly? I will see them eventually somewhere, you would think that RP would actually apply the same standards to these as they would to the rest of the gevo's they accept. If you cant see this is what I am getting at, I dont know how to help you.
False. A unit in storage does not get 92 day'd (not 90) because a locomotive not in service ( movement around an engine facility or idling does not count) does not have its daily card signed which means it does not accrue days towards its 92 day inspection. If a locomotive is used once a year theoretically it could go 92 years without a 92 day inspection.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:21 AM   #38
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Exclamation Sorry, I agree with Troy.

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.............. I think he's doing a fine job, really people just because these are getting more views than your shots no need to nitpick, I think its really cool that NS is going through the effort to post these on here............
Sorry Joe, I have thought they all sucked from day one and I too have just kept my mouth shut.

It ain't about nitpicking.....

I just think if NS is going to photograph them, they should do a little better job.

Perhaps that is because I am from L.A. and know that you do not need to wait for a sunny day to photograph something.

If the sun ain't shinning, you call the movie lighting company and they make it like day.

Not sure why NS would spend all the time and money to paint these things and then drop the ball at the unveiling, but hey, what do I know.

Further, you know for a fact most of these images would not pass muster in the screening queue were they not coming from the mother ship.

NS may know how to paint them, but they sure have low expectations for their PR pictures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos1 View Post
.........The photos would be accepted to RP regardless of who took them, so the argument that they should be rejected is moot.
Can I please have some of whatever it is that made you say that?

Because I think I could really use some of that pure optimism in my life right now.

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Old 04-20-2012, 06:36 AM   #39
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Talking Oh no, poor Troy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
.........[portion omitted]...... you would think that RP would actually apply the same standards to these as they would to the rest of the gevo's they accept. If you cant see this is what I am getting at, I dont know how to help you.
Ok Troy, while I totally agree with you on the topic of this thread, you need to take a step back on this one.

I am getting worried here my friend, because above quote sounds just like something "he" would say.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:40 AM   #40
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So much for this being a hobby...
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:52 AM   #41
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.....[portion omitted]....Maybe you're just a little butt-hurt they aren't paying you to take the photos? Judging by your photo stream I can see why they don't...
Wow, that is pretty brutal.

It is threads like this one that keep me on this Site.

What I am fascinated by, is why NS would want to get "their" photos out there first.

I mean really, what is in it for them?

I suspect the reason(s) are well thought out and have nothing to do with pleasing the foamtards.

I also suspect the reason(s) may not be as altruistic as some may want to believe.

I am actually glad that my chances of ever photographing these units is about nil, that way I can easily pay no attention to the man behind the green curtain.

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Old 04-20-2012, 07:10 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Wow, that is pretty brutal.

It is threads like this one that keep me on this Site.

What I am fascinated by, is why NS would want to get "their" photos out there first.

I mean really, what is in it for them?

I suspect the reason(s) are well thought out and have nothing to do with pleasing the foamtards.

I also suspect the reason(s) may not be as altruistic as some may want to believe.
And like I always say, the railroad is a business. Sure the railroads are doing a great thing, but again it has to do with money at some point. NS pays Casey for the photos for NS, and Norfolk Southern publicizes their photos that Casey took and both him and NS have ownership of, it gives them a better image not only to railfans, but customers the way they see Norfolk Southern. They see that NS cares about their heritage and they would think it's a great company so they get more customers and make more money. Just my two cents.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post

Can I please have some of whatever it is that made you say that?

Because I think I could really use some of that pure optimism in my life right now.
What were you smoking when Amtrak rolled out its heritage units? They let absolute sh** like this get on for the first AMTK units.
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Casey's shots are all competently done and are perfectly acceptable for the first shot of a specially painted unit.
Funny the people here that are complaining about the photos being unprofessional are the high sun catfish photoshopper and the guy that cuts off the lead engine and somehow still gets the shot accepted.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:35 AM   #44
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What I am fascinated by, is why NS would want to get "their" photos out there first.
Because Casey is the company photographer and it is his job to publicly debut these units, what is so hard to understand about that?
As awful as you think Casey's photos are (they arn't....) our first look at the units otherwise would be crap like this.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sho...spx?id=2945994
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:04 AM   #45
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It's just a hobby. Enjoy the experience of seeing this delightful program by NS unfold. There are some folks out there who could win the lottery and be angry over having to take the time to cash the check.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:55 AM   #46
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If they take a picture and post it, it will make people go out and look for it, giving them lots of free PR.
PR to who though? Railroad magazines and websites of trains? I really don't think their clients (People who need to ship their products) care how pretty the paint is, they just want their products moved and at a competitive price. That's the bottom line. When those containers or box cars are going down the track they don't have any branding on them. in other words you don't have the, "Hey look at all those Walmart rail cars being moved by that pretty colored locomotive!"
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #47
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Foamers don't care about perfect lighting and composition.
When I first heard that term Foamer I didn't get it, (I since figured it out) but all one needs to do is read some of the comments on those NS photos and, well......you can figure it out
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:01 PM   #48
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I am Happy NS is doing them and sending out the first shots. 2 It's not summer and a lot of cloudy days unlike Florida thats sunny most day's, Maybe a week or longer for good light! 3 Who cares their cool! LOL
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:37 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Actually, Chris, this raises a point I didn't feel like getting into when you previously used similar language. Not that it is my business, but I am curious, what is this "partnership" to which you refer? How is an NS-official shot treated differently? The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps you are holding other shots until the NS-official shot gets on the site. Or maybe you have agreed to not accept non-official shots of the same initial scenes? What are you doing different for NSCorp?
You didn't ask me...but I can answer a part of this question.

Yes, the first shots of these units will always be from NS (shot by Casey). I have my own shots from yesterday (dandy shots, by the way---and from slightly different angles), but I'm not going to upload yet another roster shot of this unit. I will upload a few "different" views.

The reason for all this is security. NS doesn't want to encourage random photographers to show up at Altoona or Chattanooga to run helter-skelter around the property. The shops at Altoona are gated, but it's possible to drive in at Chattanooga---so they keep these roll outs hush-hush. Again--I was there by invitation of NS management because of my work on this one project. I felt it was worth the nine hours of driving I did yesterday to ramble from Big Stone Gap, VA to Chattanooga and back. (and...that's one more explanation of how these units are photographed immediately after they roll out of the shop---whether it's day, night, raining, foggy, sunny or whatever...)

Again---that wasn't my question to answer, but that much I do know.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #50
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Im going to echo everything Mr Flanery said - I too was there (not only as an employee but as an invitee). First of all Mr Nolen - you havent the faintest clue what the shop layouts are like - let alone the sun angles - which we were blessed with at the last moment while it was decent on the conductors side. That paint shop has plenty of other work to keep them busy and with the 8105 complete - it was time to get it rolled out and make room for additional locos needing paint jobs or touchups. They cannot keep it stashed in doors to wait to for optimum sunshine angles in December! Like Ron said I too got some pretty darn fine shots of it in the same lighting and I couldnt be more tickled if I had a feather up my rear end. Casey has had a camera in his hands since about age 5 - yes 5! His father is a retired PROFESSIONAL photographer - and if you think he doesnt think long and hard about lighting etc etc - you are dead wrong. All in all I am beginning to see more and more competitive natures when it comes to RR photography and its outrageous. Railfanning is NOT a bloodsport! You are NOT going to win an award for the most views yadda yadda yadda. In the end - unless you are O Winston Link or Richard Steinheimer - chances are no matter how many views you get on here - no one will know who you are 15-20 years down the road - or care. Casey is posting historical moments perfect sun or not. Either way *most* people sure dont seem to mind...
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