Old 08-22-2007, 12:21 AM   #1
Carl Becker
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Post New PASers from Canon

For anyone looking for a new point-and-shoot, Canon just unveiled two new models the day before yesterday, the A720 IS and A650 IS:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15657
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15658

6X zoom with 8 and 12.1 megapixels, respectively...

Also unveiled were two high-end digitals, one marking the beginning of a completely new line:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15669
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15672

The G9 (following the earlier released G7) is sort of an interesting release as it's zoom and MP are identical to the A650 IS, the second of the new PASers released (and showing for $100 less). The SX100 IS features 10X zoom and 8 MP, pretty interesting...

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Old 08-22-2007, 12:36 AM   #2
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Other models also, SD 870 IS, SD 950 IS. The former is attractive to me, it has an unusually wide lens on the wide end for a P/S, 28mm equiv. I'm not getting one, but that one would be the one for me!

See dpreview.com
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:38 AM   #3
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What is more interesting are the new lenses. An 18-55 IS, might make a great kit/walk around lens (it adds IS to the current kit lens). And a 55-250 IS telezoom, to replace the 70-300 IS. Would go well with any xx-50/55 zoom.

It might be a way to get a tele IS for way cheaper than the 70-200 f/4 IS and yet be an improvement over the 70-300 IS quality. We will see.

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Old 08-22-2007, 01:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Other models also, SD 870 IS, SD 950 IS.
Yeah, I never even bother to look at those SD ones... they aren't something I'm that interested in. (Especially not the all-pink one!)
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
Yeah, I never even bother to look at those SD ones... they aren't something I'm that interested in. (Especially not the all-pink one!)
To each their own! Given all the DSLR gear I have, if I am going to have a P/S, I'm going to want one so small I can hide it in my sock!
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
To each their own! Given all the DSLR gear I have, if I am going to have a P/S, I'm going to want one so small I can hide it in my sock!
Lol ... mine isn't exactly that small but it's compact enough to fit in a moderately-sized case that also hauls around a battery charger, a tape recorder, and only the lord-knows-how-many rechargeable batteries, not to mention all the instruction books for everything in the case. I'm not real interested in lugging around a DSLR and lenses and everything else, but I do take a look at the PASers/high-end digitals quite often to see what's new as I'm looking for more zoom/MP next...
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
Lol ... mine isn't exactly that small but it's compact enough to fit in a moderately-sized case that also hauls around a battery charger, a tape recorder, and only the lord-knows-how-many rechargeable batteries, not to mention all the instruction books for everything in the case. I'm not real interested in lugging around a DSLR and lenses and everything else, but I do take a look at the PASers/high-end digitals quite often to see what's new as I'm looking for more zoom/MP next...
The number of megapixels doesn't have much of anything to do with image quality.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
The number of megapixels doesn't have much of anything to do with image quality.
Let say you post a picture on RP but it gets rejected due to "Unlevel Horizon". You find yourself in the position where you must rotate the photo thereby cutting off the top corners. Now you have to crop. You'll think twice about your statement above. OK, more realistically - you take a photo of a train and upon processing it later at home you notice the engineer has a great expression and you wish to do some heavy duty enlarging and cropping to make that part of the photo the main subject. Bet you wish you had more pixels to play with!

As for Canon - they must all be giggling today.
Let's give the prosumers their updated 30D at 10 MP and then for giggles, let's put our new 12 MP sensor with the same enhanced DIGic III processor on our cheaper point and shoot! Why?

/Mitch
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
The number of megapixels doesn't have much of anything to do with image quality.
Not saying that it does, but I am looking to step up from 6 to at least 8 with my next camera for larger prints. The one I have currently is the replacement model to my dad's (discontinued), which is only 4.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
Let say you post a picture on RP but it gets rejected due to "Unlevel Horizon". You find yourself in the position where you must rotate the photo thereby cutting off the top corners. Now you have to crop. You'll think twice about your statement above. OK, more realistically - you take a photo of a train and upon processing it later at home you notice the engineer has a great expression and you wish to do some heavy duty enlarging and cropping to make that part of the photo the main subject. Bet you wish you had more pixels to play with!
I strongly agree here. More megapixels are an advantage because, even if you can't zoom in quite as far as you want, you can make smaller parts of the picture the main subject in a cropped version. Canon has the right idea with these new point-and-shoots - they are combining more zoom with more MP.

Quote:
As for Canon - they must all be giggling today.
Let's give the prosumers their updated 30D at 10 MP and then for giggles, let's put our new 12 MP sensor with the same enhanced DIGic III processor on our cheaper point and shoot!
No kidding. I suppose the motive behind that could be that with less zoom, you could make a smaller part of the picture the main subject in a cropped version, like I mentioned above. With the DSLR, who needs that many MP since you can zoom in completely on whatever you want to anyway?
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
I'm not real interested in lugging around a DSLR and lenses and everything else, but I do take a look at the PASers/high-end digitals quite often to see what's new as I'm looking for more zoom/MP next...
If this is your only reason for not wanting a dSLR, I strongly suggest you re-evaluate your position. It sounds like you are already carrying around a bit of gear and a dSLR shouldn't require much more, if any. All I carry with my dSLR is the body, a couple lenses and the manual for the body. I also carry a tripod, but that's not exclusive to a dSLR. If you can afford it, I highly recommend a dSLR. The extra price is 110% worth the IQ and the control over the outcome of your photos.

Last edited by Mike B.; 08-22-2007 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:42 AM   #12
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Default Mega Pixels

Hi ,
mega pixels are not everything, there's the little question of signal to noise ratio.

Compare a 6 mega pixel shot from say an "old" canon 10D with the fore runner to the G9, the G7 which is 10mp.

Due to the smaller size of the chip on the G7 the pixels are considerable smaller than the 10D pixels, so the signal from the G7 needs to be amplified more to produce the image data.

More amplification = more noise.

Of course on Railpics we only view a screen res' image, now go and make some A3 size (420mmx297mm) prints and see the difference.

Of course this is a pretty general statement and I have not considered the taking lens or post processing, but here in the UK the well respected Geoffrey Crawley who writes for Amateur Photographer magazine has done some research on this issue and published findings that concur with the above.

So, pixel count is not everything, there are many other considerations to include in your quest for image excellence.

Most important though, no matter how many pixels or film grains you have, just enjoy taking and sharing your phots.

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Old 08-22-2007, 11:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
If this is your only reason for not wanting a dSLR, I strongly suggest you re-evaluate your position. It sounds like you are already carrying around a bit of gear and a dSLR shouldn't require much more, if any. All I carry with my dSLR is the body, a couple lenses and the manual for the body. I also carry a tripod, but that's not exclusive to a dSLR. If you can afford it, I highly recommend a dSLR. The extra price is 110% worth the IQ and the control over the outcome of your photos.
I totally agree. Of course, I come from the TV business where before we went with the new Panasonics, my camera alone weighed 20 pounds. That's before the extra batteries, five pounds each, and a ten pound tripod, mic cables, etc. Even with the new smallercameras, now at my new station, I have a lighting kit and more gear than I can shake a stick at.

So maybe I'm not the best one to talk about this, but carrying a DSLR isn't exactly lugging anythign around, esp. when you consider how much more you can do with it than a P&S. The name kinda says it all, point and shoot. Doesn't exactly give you much control. Believe me, as you get more serious about your photography, you will want to have as much control as you can. My thinking on this is if a picture comes out of the camera wrong, I don't want it to be the camera's fault. I can learn better skills as a photog, but a camera is only as god as the money you put into it.


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Old 08-22-2007, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

So maybe I'm not the best one to talk about this, but carrying a DSLR isn't exactly lugging anythign around, esp. when you consider how much more you can do with it than a P&S
Exactly. Just get yourself a good backpack and there's no "lugging" about it. I have two bags, one for serious hikes and one for just being on the go. That one I tend to you use more and I NEVER find it an issue to be carrying around, no matter where I'm going. My GF and I walked around Chicago for 8 hours a couple of weeks ago and my bag never became an annoyance. That's with the camera body and two three lenses, too (one of those large and heavy).

If you're serious about photography, carrying around the equipment should be the LEAST of your concerns.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:32 PM   #15
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Agree with all that has been said. Recently, I bought a proper camera bag with adjustable compartments for each lens - backback style - and it has really made a difference in the convenience of lugging it all with me.

But one thing, travel, especially non-rail travel. I have taken any number of trips, especially business trips to Brussels, where lugging the DSL, carry-on of course, is a real pain. I have since obtained a P/S (Canon S70, goes wide to 28 equiv and does RAW) and look forward to the convenience of getting some shots without suffering a lot of pain for a few minutes of shooting. I'm willing to lug if the objective is rail pix, but not if that is a minor part of the trip.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:45 PM   #16
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I need a backpack-style camera bag, but right now still only have the big, somewhat bulky camera bag that can be held by hand or worn over the shoulder. It's not the easiest thing to carry around, but well worth it. It goes with me everywhere. It's in my live truck right now just in case. (My aerial stuff has been done on the job.)


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Old 08-22-2007, 03:30 PM   #17
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Interesting thread. I just moved from a P&S (Canon Powershot A520) to a DSLR. I use P&S more to describe body styling than anything anymore, as my P&S had TV, AV and M settings, so as I got to know the camera, it gave me quite a bit of freedom while taking shots, more than just pointing and shooting. The thing I liked the most about it was that I could easily fit it in my pocket with my wallet, which was very handy, especially for situations where I didn't want to be conspicuous. I still use it for video clips, but I'm going to upgrade to another small camera with better video capabilities so I still have the ability to just put a camera in my pocket and be done with it.

As far as megapixels and image quality, the difference between 8 and 4 is astounding to me. Straight out of the camera you may not notice much but the second you start rotating and cropping like Mitch said, then the difference comes forth. Used to be, if I had to rotate 2 degrees or more, I knew I was pushing the limit with image quality. Not anymore.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
I do take a look at the PASers/high-end digitals quite often to see what's new as I'm looking for more zoom/MP next...
Slight shift in thread direction, but a question here.
I'm thinking of getting a high end PAS next year to pack with my SLR. Any recommendations? I like the idea of having some manual control.
Popular Photography gave the Sony DSC-H9 a pretty good review, but how is the quality?
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
I need a backpack-style camera bag, but right now still only have the big, somewhat bulky camera bag that can be held by hand or worn over the shoulder. It's not the easiest thing to carry around, but well worth it. It goes with me everywhere. It's in my live truck right now just in case. (My aerial stuff has been done on the job.)
It probably wasn't thirty minutes after I posted this that I was called out to the helicopter to go shoot a train v. truck accident.

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I got my camera body, my 70-200 f4L and 50 mm f1.8 and went to meet the helicopter. One more shot is being appealed right now. The footage I shot for TV should be on at 5, 5:30, 6 or 7. I'll post a link when it airs.


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Old 08-22-2007, 07:50 PM   #20
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Most interesting thread. I have a Canon 350D (8mp), my husband a 30D (8.2mp),which I also use. At 400 ASA, the 30D has noticeably less grain than the 350D when the pictures are viewed full size, at 1600 ASA the difference is even more marked. Below that, there is hardly any difference at all.
In contrast our PAS A95 (5mp) is awful at 400ASA, but gives very good results at 50 and 100 ASA.

PS. Any reason that the PAS has a lower ASA available than either of the SLR's?
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Limits
Slight shift in thread direction, but a question here.
I'm thinking of getting a high end PAS next year to pack with my SLR. Any recommendations? I like the idea of having some manual control.
Popular Photography gave the Sony DSC-H9 a pretty good review, but how is the quality?
IMO, take a look at Canon's high-end digitals. The new SX1000 is one of them. Also currently in production are the G7, G9, TX1, and S5 IS. The S3 IS is out of production but still available widely. Nearly every camera dealer here in town seems to have one somewhere.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
I'm thinking of getting a high end PAS next year to pack with my SLR.
I'm confused by this logic, especially when it comes to getting a HE PnS like the Sony DSC-H9 or Canon S3 or S5 to go along with a dSLR (assuming the SLR quoted above was a dSLR, not a film SLR). A HE PnS like those are too big to carry in a pants pocket, thus killing the one big advantage (small size) that a PnS has over a dSLR.

For the price of a HE PnS, you could take a significant chunk out of the cost of a lens upgrade...
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I'm confused by this logic, especially when it comes to getting a HE PnS like the Sony DSC-H9 or Canon S3 or S5 to go along with a dSLR (assuming the SLR quoted above was a dSLR, not a film SLR). A HE PnS like those are too big to carry in a pants pocket, thus killing the one big advantage (small size) that a PnS has over a dSLR.

For the price of a HE PnS, you could take a significant chunk out of the cost of a lens upgrade...
Sorry, it is a film SLR (Canon EOS Elan II).
Lately I have been carrying my wife's Sony DSC-W80 in my pocket when I go out. But I find it has an annoying lag time, minimal adjustments, and no manual setting.
What works for me is I put the long lens on the SLR and take the close shots with the PAS.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
IMO, take a look at Canon's high-end digitals. The new SX1000 is one of them. Also currently in production are the G7, G9, TX1, and S5 IS. The S3 IS is out of production but still available widely. Nearly every camera dealer here in town seems to have one somewhere.

Thanks Carl,
These are about 1/3 the price of a 30D, and I can still use my Speedlight.
The G7 looks like it would fit in a (big) pocket.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Sorry, it is a film SLR (Canon EOS Elan II).
Ah, I see. A couple of my favorite photographers use the Canon S-series cameras, and they get great results...
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