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Old 04-18-2013, 04:26 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
Please! I don't think I offered any damnation and judgement on anyone who didn't worship at the alter of railroad photography as an art form. For what it's worth, I enjoy a sunny day wedgie and calendar-type shot as much as the next guy.
I didn't mean it that way . . . just the fact that you differentiated between wedgies and art. Now I expect someone to go out and produce an artistic wedgie just to prove it can be done.

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Old 04-19-2013, 04:49 AM   #77
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]Now I expect someone to go out and produce an artistic wedgie just to prove it can be done.


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Old 04-19-2013, 04:55 AM   #78
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Lightbulb Wedgie

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James Stewart, Qui-Gon Jinn and a Train at Hill 582 [Mayan Apocalypse Study 2012] by El Roco Photography, on Flickr

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Old 04-19-2013, 04:57 AM   #79
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I tried.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...36&key=2432110

Can wedgies be taken going away?
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:58 AM   #80
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.....Can wedgies be taken going away?
Ask Jim.

BTW - I like that one, figures it was rejected.

They were none too keen on this one neither.


M.P. 674.3 - East Siberia by El Roco Photography, on Flickr

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:12 PM   #81
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They were none too keen on this one neither.
Next time bring a step ladder with you.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:46 PM   #82
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Kent, your comparison was hugely flawed. "Go back and look at the last 60 uploads. Now here are CRPA's contest winners." Good grief. Average photos v. Award winners. Award winners win every time. At least go back and look at the last 60 PCAs or something. It's less of a gap than you say.
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everytime i see non-train photos of yours i think, "so much talent. wasted on trains."
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:23 PM   #83
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Wink You mean we need to get out of the car to do this?

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Next time bring a step ladder with you.
Walking to the other side of the culvert works too, but for some reason we never shoot from that side.

Note to self - shoot from other side of culvert.

View looking the other way.

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What it looks like at night.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:28 PM   #84
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That's not a wedgie. A true wedgie is a standing-at-the-grade crossing shot with low sun on the nose, and train receding into the horizon. That's a nice, shot, by the way.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #85
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Kent, your comparison was hugely flawed. "Go back and look at the last 60 uploads. Now here are CRPA's contest winners." Good grief. Average photos v. Award winners. Award winners win every time. At least go back and look at the last 60 PCAs or something. It's less of a gap than you say.
A PCA on RP.net may not always constitute a great shot. It has to come from the universe of images for that particular period---and it might have been a long, dry spell for compelling images at that time.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:58 AM   #86
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Kent, your comparison was hugely flawed. "Go back and look at the last 60 uploads. Now here are CRPA's contest winners." Good grief. Average photos v. Award winners. Award winners win every time. At least go back and look at the last 60 PCAs or something. It's less of a gap than you say.

A couple of years ago, the CRPA contest was, "Railroad photos that have no trains." The CRPA received several hundred entries. How many of those would get a PCA here? My guess is zero. BTW, by suggesting a comparision between the two groups of photos I was simply trying to get at the difference in philosphy of taking photos. That might make an interesting thread on its own?


Kent in SD

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Old 04-21-2013, 04:00 AM   #87
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A couple of years ago, the CRPA contest was, "Railroad photos that have no trains." The CRPA received several hundred entries. How many of those would get a PCA here? My guess is zero. BTW, by suggesting a comparision between the two groups of photos I was simply trying to get at the difference in philosphy of taking photos. That might make an interesting thread on its own?


Kent in SD
In 2010, the theme was "Beyond the Locomotive" which I'm going to assume is what you're talking about. Of the five winning photos announced, three were on RP, and two had received People's Choice Awards. Your point is empirically DENIED.

On a broader scale, what we're discussing is two-fold. What [RPers v. CRPA attendees] [shoot v. enjoy]. In the four-quadrant square I've just created, two things are fairly established. 1. What RPers shoot and 2. What CRPAers enjoy. What isn't totally established is what CRPAers shoot and what RPers enjoy. I would maintain that the what CRPAers shoot isn't that much different than what RPers shoot and that the difference in what they enjoy is only slightly larger. Obviously, RPers tend to be a bit more focused on sun and power versus the average CRPAer may be a bit more interested in getting an artsy-fartsy shot.

In sum, firstly, I believe the two groups are more similar than you're giving them credit for. Secondly, you're doing a lot to prove the snooty and arrogant stereotype that's been granted CRPA attendees.
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everytime i see non-train photos of yours i think, "so much talent. wasted on trains."
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:02 AM   #88
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A couple of years ago, the CRPA contest was, "Railroad photos that have no trains." The CRPA received several hundred entries. How many of those would get a PCA here? My guess is zero.



Image © Ross Fotheringham
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Image © Ross Fotheringham
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:15 AM   #89
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...Obviously, RPers tend to be a bit more focused on sun and power versus the average CRPAer may be a bit more interested in ....Secondly, you're doing a lot to prove the snooty and arrogant stereotype that's been granted CRPA attendees.
Come on now, dude. I post to RP.net, and I attend the CRPA conference. So do a lot of other RP.net folks. I don't think any of us are snooty and arrogant. And, I see nothing here that has put anyone down the way you just did. Was that really necessary? Besides, stereotypes do not reflect reality. That's why they're called stereotypes.

When Chris Starnes did a presentation on RP.net at last year's conference (he did an excellent job, I might add), I would say 90 percent of the attendees wouldn't have even known what Rail Pictures was. The presentation was well received. Few of these guys knew anything about a PCA, Bad Motive, view counts, or any of the jargon common with RP.net. They listened, and learned. Who was in the audience? Some of the most distinguished rail photographers from the last 40 or 50 years (not all of them, but quite a few). They seemed quite interested in learning more about this still-new phenomenon of posting one's images on a public, juried web site. Remember: most of the guys in my generation are heavily biased toward print media (which will always be my own preference).

I would say the average age of a CRPA member is 55...while the average age of a loyal RP.net fan is about 30. It's also a generational thing.

Most people like pretty train pictures. Only a few people see train photography as art. You're talking about apples vs. oranges here.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:59 AM   #90
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1.In 2010, the theme was "Beyond the Locomotive" which I'm going to assume is what you're talking about. Of the five winning photos announced, three were on RP, and two had received People's Choice Awards. Your point is empirically DENIED.

2. On a broader scale, what we're discussing is two-fold. What [RPers v. CRPA attendees] [shoot v. enjoy]. In the four-quadrant square I've just created, two things are fairly established. 1. What RPers shoot and 2. What CRPAers enjoy. What isn't totally established is what CRPAers shoot and what RPers enjoy. I would maintain that the what CRPAers shoot isn't that much different than what RPers shoot and that the difference in what they enjoy is only slightly larger. Obviously, RPers tend to be a bit more focused on sun and power versus the average CRPAer may be a bit more interested in getting an artsy-fartsy shot.

3. In sum, firstly, I believe the two groups are more similar than you're giving them credit for. Secondly, you're doing a lot to prove the snooty and arrogant stereotype that's been granted CRPA attendees.
1. Looking at the last 500 shots posted here (time wise,) how many had no train in them at all? I didn't see any (but admit my eyes were getting blurry as I flipped through all the engine shots pretty fast.) My guess is less than 1%. Of my own shots it's maybe 25%. I know of others who rarely shoot engines in their railfan shots, including one of this year's CRPA scholarship awardees (John Sanderson, who mostly shoots 4x5.) Lew Abdeldinger is another. Joel Jenson is currently working on a project of abandoned or repurposed Midwestern depots.

2. I'm not sure you quadrant deal is the only way to look at it. I take a much more basic approach than that. I tend to group photographers in general into two camps (this goes back to Victorian times, BTW.) First group are those that take what I call "concrete" or "literal" photos. I.e., "here's what a BNSF GP-30 looks like." Second group takes photos tend to take "emotive" or "abstract" photos that say, "This is what winter in Minnesota feels like." While I am a bit of both, my favorite shots tend to be more of the "feels like" variety.

3. Similar yes, in that both concentrate on railroads as the subject matter. Neither "camp" is monolithic: one of the reasons to be here is simply to connect with other foamers. Same for CRPA conventions. It doesn't really have anything to do with your own style. As for snooty etc., I think that comes from not being familiar with different types of photography. Many of my own shots would just not be appropriate here and I know that. I wouldn't post them on a forum dedicated to bird photography either. While I do photo a lot of RR themed subjects, my secret passion is photo'ing road kill. Unfortunately, I haven't found a forum to post those, and the nature/wildlife forum guys hate them! At any rate, since I've actually been to both CRPA conventions AND a number of railfan "events," I think I at least have enough information & insight to form an honest opinion. As it turns out, people are people.


Kent in SD
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #91
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Secondly, you're doing a lot to prove the snooty and arrogant stereotype that's been granted CRPA attendees.
Peter, who were you talking to, where, when you got this impression? I'd never heard of this possibility until now.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:49 PM   #92
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Maybe he was referring to Mitchell Markovitz, who started his presentation by saying, his suit is not rented. Also saying some derogatory things about people wearing jeans and body piercings.

I thought that was a little odd in today's age.

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Old 04-21-2013, 03:14 PM   #93
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Maybe he was referring to Mitchell Markovitz, who started his presentation by saying, his suit is not rented. Also saying some derogatory things about people wearing jeans and body piercings.

I thought that was a little odd in today's age.

Chris Z
Mitch is a real throw back to another time. If he had been born in the '20s, he would have been much happier. I never met him until the conference, but I've seen and enjoyed his art for many years. Mike Schafer was an early fan of his work, and featured his South Shore art in PTJ back in the '80s.

A little odd in today's age? That's putting it mildly. For the record---I was wearing jeans at the conference (no body piercings, though...).
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #94
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If you want me in a suit and tie, you need to get married, die, or pay me to show up.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:41 PM   #95
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If you want me in a suit and tie, you need to get married, die, or pay me to show up.

I take all my fashion direction from my hero, the Duck Commander*. I once showed up at a buddy's wedding wearing my waders. (The bride was not amused. )


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Old 04-22-2013, 03:04 AM   #96
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Also saying some derogatory things about people wearing jeans and body piercings.
Wow, I guess I missed that part. Now I'm glad I didn't introduce myself to him at Rowan house at the end of Saturday's session. He may have fixated negatively on the hoop in my left ear.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:02 AM   #97
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Wow, I guess I missed that part. Now I'm glad I didn't introduce myself to him at Rowan house at the end of Saturday's session. He may have fixated negatively on the hoop in my left ear.
I did introduce myself and told him I had admired his work for years. He was nice, but he looked me over and apparently felt I was pond scum. So...I went back to the bar, got a drink, and resumed talking to Travis, Chris and Jim---none of whom wore a tailored three piece suit (with pocket watch and chain) and patent leather shoes, as Mitch did.

I wore a coat and tie for nearly 38 years at work. I wore one last night for a function at our local college, but after five years of retirement, I had a hard time remembering how to tie a Windsor knot. I thought I might have to borrow a clip-on from my neighbor.

There might have been a dozen other folks in coat and tie at the event, but everyone else was casual....very casual in many cases.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:41 PM   #98
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Okay, sorry, y'all, I don't get on here very often...

But, I will take back what I said. I had gotten the impression from multiple people stereotyping the CRPA crowd. Apparently, though, that's not a widely-held belief. My apologies.

Meanwhile, RP is a diverse place, in that there are many people on here with many different intentions. What Ducky seems to be saying is that everyone is on here to take pictures of trains with an extremely-low art factor. I think you're wrong, Ducky, because there are plenty here to take some amazing, not-so-train-oriented photos. Jim Thais provided us with a few wonderful examples. I wandered back through the last 200 pics and found...

Image © Michael Sbrocchi
PhotoID: 433530
Photograph © Michael Sbrocchi

Image © WMHeilman
PhotoID: 433612
Photograph © WMHeilman

Image © Frank Orona
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Photograph © Frank Orona

Image © Michael Sbrocchi
PhotoID: 433690
Photograph © Michael Sbrocchi


They come in fits and spurts, but those were merely the ones without an engine or a whole train car. Plenty others on the site incorporate, but do not emphasize, a train in a masterful way, creating great work.

All this to say, many on RP just want to post a photo of the blue HLCX SD60 they shot yesterday, but plenty others would be more thrilled to get a good artistic photo.

TL;DR: Please understand, there are plenty of exceptions to the stereotypes of the RP crowd.
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Quote:
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everytime i see non-train photos of yours i think, "so much talent. wasted on trains."
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #99
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Lightbulb Wedgies and Butts - it's what the mob wants.

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.......... What Ducky seems to be saying is that everyone is on here to take pictures of trains with an extremely-low art factor. I think you're wrong, Ducky, because there are plenty here to take some amazing, not-so-train-oriented photos.

Wrong forum dude, Ducky and Garland ain't on this one, or if they are, they lurk and don't participate.



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....All this to say, many on RP just want to post a photo of the blue HLCX SD60 they shot yesterday[.]
That or chick butt is all they want.

Case in point, this is art and look at the views.

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 433550
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And then there is this:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 433274
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


Not "Art" and it was top 4 of 24.

And this:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 424761
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


Also a top 4 of 24 and not "Art."

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Old 04-25-2013, 10:37 PM   #100
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Wrong forum dude, Ducky and Garland ain't on this one, or if they are, they lurk and don't participate.
Ducky has been in this very thread; sorry you missed him.
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