Old 03-25-2010, 03:02 PM   #1
TonytheTiger
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Default Lucky at Lewistown

Yesterday, I had to make a trip to our State College, Pennsylvania, office. For the three years that this office has been open, and I have travelled to it, I have stopped by in Lewistown to see if I can catch one of the North Shore (Juniata Valley) shortline locomotives out of the engine house. Until yesterday, I was unsuccessful . . . .

http://rgkitchen.rrpicturearchives.n...spx?id=1992447

Image © Rob Kitchen
PhotoID: 318389
Photograph © Rob Kitchen


Image © Rob Kitchen
PhotoID: 318408
Photograph © Rob Kitchen


http://rgkitchen.rrpicturearchives.n...spx?id=1992450

On my way home, I again stopped by, but the enginehouse was buttoned up tight. However, I did get to watch two NS eastbounds go by (20A and 10G), and NS westbound 501 was lit up just right for a photo . . . .

Image © Rob Kitchen
PhotoID: 318390
Photograph © Rob Kitchen
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You know you are old when the first car you owned is now considered a "Classic".

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Old 04-01-2010, 09:42 PM   #2
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Nevermind...

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Old 04-02-2010, 12:34 AM   #3
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Nice JVRR trespassing shots.....
Call the cops if it bothers you so much...

Also, are you 100% certain he didn't have permission to be there?
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:17 AM   #4
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Call the cops if it bothers you so much...

Also, are you 100% certain he didn't have permission to be there?
I see nothing! It's not worth it, really.

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Old 04-03-2010, 03:19 PM   #5
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Please contact me off list
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Rob Kitchen
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You know you are old when the first car you owned is now considered a "Classic".

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Old 04-03-2010, 04:06 PM   #6
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Please contact me off list
PM sent Rob
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:10 PM   #7
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So...what's going on behind closed doors?
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:03 AM   #8
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Super secret probation... LoL!! Well, he has not responded yet.
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:36 PM   #9
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Well, I hope when he does respond that you can get him in trouble or the folks that might have given him permission to be there. Either way, you win!
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:15 PM   #10
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Well, I hope when he does respond that you can get him in trouble or the folks that might have given him permission to be there. Either way, you win!
Okay, whatever Chris! Nobody is getting into trouble.
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:15 AM   #11
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Well, I hope when he does respond that you can get him in trouble or the folks that might have given him permission to be there. Either way, you win!
BTW, maybe you should mind your own business?! Didn't the armed forces teach you discipline?! Mr. Kitchen and myself have discussed the situation in private and it is settled. Now, how about I bring a truck and do donuts in your backyard, will you consider that trespassing and question the situation or, just look the other way?! I have a job to do, please respect it.......
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:55 AM   #12
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BTW, maybe you should mind your own business?!
Says the guy who chimed in first and said "Nice JVRR trespassing shots.....". I see you went back and edited that post, but you can see it quoted in my first reply. And last time I checked, this is a public forum...where was I wrong or forbidden to chime in?

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Didn't the armed forces teach you discipline?!
You know, come to think of it, I don't recall receiving any training about posting on a public internet forum during my off-duty time that deals with my hobby. But if you're concerned about what "discipline" the military is instilling, feel free to write you congressman or senators to see that appropriate funding gets allocated for times when members of the armed forces should or should not post in a railroad-related internet forum.

But all seriousness, the fact that you actually wrote this is beyond weak and in no way plays a part in the discussion at hand.

What my military training tells me is to gather the facts and analyze before I react and publically make an ass out of myself (or in my line of work, die or make a bad situation worse). I realize you have a job to do, but I'll submit you went about it in the wrong way. From my vantage point, your comment about "nice trespassing shots" puts the blame on the photographer, as if he willy-nilly walked in there and took photos on railroad property. My stance was, "Hey, maybe he asked someone there if he could take some shots" and whoever he asked said yes. Regardless, maybe if you had some discipline, you would have talked to your employees first about the issue and then contacted the photographer off list before publically posting "nice JVRR trespassing shots" for all to see and open yourself up to comments/criticism.

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Now, how about I bring a truck and do donuts in your backyard, will you consider that trespassing and question the situation or, just look the other way?!
Your example above is weak as well and it goes back to my above point. I'd do it off list. If you want to investigate it, it's your perogative as boss. But it looks like you publically blamed the photog here in the forums first for something he probably thought he had received permission to do.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween View Post
Says the guy who chimed in first and said "Nice JVRR trespassing shots.....". I see you went back and edited that post, but you can see it quoted in my first reply. And last time I checked, this is a public forum...where was I wrong or forbidden to chime in?



You know, come to think of it, I don't recall receiving any training about posting on a public internet forum during my off-duty time that deals with my hobby. But if you're concerned about what "discipline" the military is instilling, feel free to write you congressman or senators to see that appropriate funding gets allocated for times when members of the armed forces should or should not post in a railroad-related internet forum.

But all seriousness, the fact that you actually wrote this is beyond weak and in no way plays a part in the discussion at hand.

What my military training tells me is to gather the facts and analyze before I react and publically make an ass out of myself (or in my line of work, die or make a bad situation worse). I realize you have a job to do, but I'll submit you went about it in the wrong way. From my vantage point, your comment about "nice trespassing shots" puts the blame on the photographer, as if he willy-nilly walked in there and took photos on railroad property. My stance was, "Hey, maybe he asked someone there if he could take some shots" and whoever he asked said yes. Regardless, maybe if you had some discipline, you would have talked to your employees first about the issue and then contacted the photographer off list before publically posting "nice JVRR trespassing shots" for all to see and open yourself up to comments/criticism.



Your example above is weak as well and it goes back to my above point. I'd do it off list. If you want to investigate it, it's your perogative as boss. But it looks like you publically blamed the photog here in the forums first for something he probably thought he had received permission to do.
Well, with knowing Kevin, I can say that his posting was done with all the facts. He is a professional and believes in protecting company assests and employees alike, he is not a rat or, a sell out. With your "weak" assesment, I disagree. In fact, I find it very humorous and amusing! You act like railfans have access and privelidge to everywhere, that is simply not true. With having intimate knowledge of the area in question, Mr. Kitchen was on private property at the time he shot those photos. However, I have not talked with Kevin about this since it appears that he has been banned from the forums but, I still have confidence that he was in the right about all of this, his reputation with the company could be on the line with "false pretense", I assure you "Ween" that he did take steps to assure this forehand. I have frequented his presense many times over about ten years, we are not strangers.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:25 AM   #14
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You act like railfans have access and privelidge to everywhere, that is simply not true. With having intimate knowledge of the area in question, Mr. Kitchen was on private property at the time he shot those photos.
Where do I "act" like railfans have access and privilige to everywhere? Can you point to any place in any of my posts where I say or imply this? Please, do; I'd like to see what you come up with.

Since you missed it, my point was that perhaps Mr. Kitchen believed he HAD PERMISSION to be where he was because he ASKED one of the employees if he could be there to shoot some photos. As such, the other point I was making is that, to me, it appeared Kevin blamed the photog FIRST without gathering the facts (i.e. did Mr. Kitchen ask if he could be there to take some photos?). Do you know if Mr. Kitchen asked any of the employees if he could take some photos there? If not, then your position is weak; I actually know the answer to that question...
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:33 AM   #15
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However, I have not talked with Kevin about this since it appears that he has been banned from the forums but, I still have confidence that he was in the right about all of this
That's unfortunate, but why do you think he was banned? I don't see anything in this thread (or any others) that would warrant a ban, so something must have taken place off list in regards to this issue.

So you still have confidence that he was "in the right about all of this?"
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:29 PM   #16
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What my military training tells me is to gather the facts and analyze before I react and publically make an ass out of myself (or in my line of work, die or make a bad situation worse). I realize you have a job to do, but I'll submit you went about it in the wrong way. From my vantage point, your comment about "nice trespassing shots" puts the blame on the photographer, as if he willy-nilly walked in there and took photos on railroad property. My stance was, "Hey, maybe he asked someone there if he could take some shots" and whoever he asked said yes. Regardless, maybe if you had some discipline, you would have talked to your employees first about the issue and then contacted the photographer off list before publically posting "nice JVRR trespassing shots" for all to see and open yourself up to comments/criticism.
And how do you know that he didn't gather any facts before posting this? There were several days between the initial post and his, I'm sure he had plenty of time to make a phone call or two; Kevin likely called up the local management to ask if he had permission, to which they likely said no...because as I suspect, it was a blue collar guy who "gave him permission." And even if the boss asked if anyone gave him permission, it's not like they're going to fess up to something where they know they were in the wrong.

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Since you missed it, my point was that perhaps Mr. Kitchen believed he HAD PERMISSION to be where he was because he ASKED one of the employees if he could be there to shoot some photos. As such, the other point I was making is that, to me, it appeared Kevin blamed the photog FIRST without gathering the facts (i.e. did Mr. Kitchen ask if he could be there to take some photos?). Do you know if Mr. Kitchen asked any of the employees if he could take some photos there? If not, then your position is weak; I actually know the answer to that question...
Asking if you can take some photos and asking if you can enter private property are very different things. On top of that, I wouldn't trust the word of a non-management figure with regard to a matter such as this since in virtually every instance they have no authority to grant such access (and non-management figures are generally the only ones we encounter while out shooting). If a stranger walks up to your door, your 6 year old son (hypothetical) answers it, the man asks if he can "explore" your house, and your 6 year old son says yes, it's meaningless - the hypothetical man didn't have "permission," he'd have to talk ideally to the head of the household about that one. But I'm sure my example will also be "weak" since it goes against what you think...

What Kevin was doing was letting it be known that trespassing on his railroad's property would not be tolerated, and it's better to make such statements public instead of waiting until someone does it and contacting them privately - if it's not public knowledge, they can at least partially claim ignorance (barring any "no trespassing" signs or other obvious property borderlines). No one likes being called out, but if you're in the wrong (whether you realize it or not), it's bound to happen - take it like a man instead of whining about how socially unacceptable it is (I'm pretty sure this is what Kevin was getting at - it seems like many participants on this forum are overly sensitive to this sort of thing and don't want to admit when they're in the wrong, but would rather go down in a "blaze of glory").

As for Kevin being banned, it was per his own request - he was getting fed up with you in particular, Ween, and decided that instead of wasting his time trying to explain it to you, he'd just admit that it's not worth his time and leave. Banning his account also eliminated any temptation of returning later on.

And for what it's worth, it's this sort of behavior that has gotten railfans permanently banned from so many shortlines I used to frequent up here - not so much the trespassing (even though it is blatantly illegal), but mouthing off to managers about it when confronted. You can cry civil rights, Joe Schmoe in his pick-up truck driving by told me I could wander down here, etc...but any way about it, if they say you're in the wrong, you're in their wrong - it's their property, and they dictate what goes on there. I can give so many examples of shortlines that used to bend over backwards for railfans up here that now call the cops on people like me, who had nothing but respect for the guys running the show, because one or two guys decided it was unjust that they were called out and felt the need to scream into a manager's face about it. Fine, maybe they feel like they were in the right about it...but now everyone else is permanently barred from the enjoyment they once had as a result. Know when to holster your guns, people...
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:05 AM   #17
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As for Kevin being banned, it was per his own request - he was getting fed up with you in particular, Ween, and decided that instead of wasting his time trying to explain it to you, he'd just admit that it's not worth his time and leave. Banning his account also eliminated any temptation of returning later on.
Like I said, it's unfortunate that he was banned, but it's more unfortunate that, according to you, his banning, especially self-induced, is because of me. I take zero responsibility for his decision to eliminate himself from this discussion, this forum, and this site. That's on him; that is solely his decision.

I own up to how I conduct myself here and trackside and take responsibility for what I say here, but to try and put the blame on me for his decision to leave is pretty friggin' weak...
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