Old 03-14-2015, 11:29 PM   #26
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I should add that I am banned from appealing, precisely because I have appealed too much against this kind of idiot rejection
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Old 03-15-2015, 12:17 AM   #27
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...if you decide to leave the site to send someone (whether it is the site administrators or the site visitors) a message, it will have little effect.
True enough, if it was just one contributor leaving.

Complacency is risky. Remember MySpace? Remember AOL?
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Old 03-15-2015, 12:31 AM   #28
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I think that RPN will be locked in the general discontent of (non American) photographers because their photos will rarely published by openness of screeners and especially too often unjustified rejection reason...

Daniel--

I will be candid, if I may. I am pretty open to photos from anyone and anywhere. I think of myself as 75% photographer, 25% railfan. So, here goes. I looked at a dozen pages of your photos on RPN and have some thoughts. Too many of the color shots are very similar composition. Too similar. There just isn't anything that strikes me as creative about many of them, generally speaking. Yes, I was interested in seeing them but only because I enjoy seeing trains from different places. There isn't one that I would like to have printed and hung on my wall.

Your black et white steam photos are an entirely different matter. Some are pure genius! You have a recent one here that reminds me very much of the British photographer (c.1920s) E.O. Hoppe:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...=515906&nseq=5

You have a number of these that I find very good and would frame and hang on my wall. Some of your other black et white work reminds me of the great Brassai! And yet, you mostly seem to do the less inspired color photos. Perhaps you have your priorities backwards? Speaking just for myself, I'd like to see less of this:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...485898&nseq=52

and more of this!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...488440&nseq=48
et
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...471454&nseq=90


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Old 03-15-2015, 01:04 AM   #29
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Welcome to the club!
I stopped appealing after an appeal rejection arrived literally within seconds after I sent the appeal.

The famous Definition of Insanity applies...
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:34 AM   #30
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True enough, if it was just one contributor leaving.

Complacency is risky. Remember MySpace? Remember AOL?
Absolutely, I remember when both were the innovators in their respective fields. And by many accounts from people who have packed up their toys and left this site, it should have suffered the same fate about the same time MySpace and AOL joined the Pontiac Aztek in the "Remember This?" museum.

Am I being complacent? No. What I am saying it is my opinion a force much larger than individual photographers and even railfans at large drive this site's traffic. I also think many of us believe we hold more sway than we really do. And for every one photographer who has packed up and left, I suspect there are a good ten who have started submitting, and many more working at getting on here. The zeal I had as a youngster trying so hard to get a photo into the pages of CTC Board is now directed here.

I'm not really sure where the underlying force comes from for this site, because among my friends in this hobby (I've been in it for over 30 years), I know more people who dislike the site and/or do not post to it than do. I can't help but think of a quote I once heard about the highest rated TV show on Monday nights several years ago, which was WCW's "Monday Nitro." It was referred to as "The most watched show on TV no one watches." That is, no one would admit to watching it, yet if you talked to them, they somehow knew the storyline and who had won matches.

Are there things here which could be improved? Absolutely. But regardless of who has come and gone over the years, the site's traffic remains strong, and like it or not, this is still the place to see and be seen in railroad photography.

I had my own site for years, and recently decided paying hosting fees just wasn't worth it to have my name out there. This is now my sole outlet for my railroad photography, and since increasing my participation, I have received requests to submit my photos to major railfan publications and for industry publications.

So, I'm wandering a bit, but back to MySpace and AOL. Those platforms were backed by big time advertising money and large corporations. And better platforms backed by big time advertising money and large corporations came along with a better product and wooed these sites' traffic away. This site was started by a couple of fans, and pretty much remains so. If this were the business world, this little fish would have been gobbled up by a huge corporation years ago based on its success. Or a better widget would have come along, and we'd all be posting our photos there.

But as long as pretty much the entire railroad photography community is not willing to pay one cent to view or post "the best railroad photos on the net," I am pretty confident you are viewing the site which will continue with the highest traffic and "one stop shopping" for railroad photography.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:40 AM   #31
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I stopped appealing after an appeal rejection arrived literally within seconds after I sent the appeal.

The famous Definition of Insanity applies...
And I recently submitted one, and didn't hear anything on it for about a week. But when I did, my photo was accepted.

I would suggest that if you immediately appeal a photo, you are likely to have the same screener consider your photo again (although admittedly, I do not know the inner workings of the appeal process; that is, if it is structured enough where someone other than the rejecting screener reviews an appeal). And what changed from 5 minutes ago? All you do is put yourself in a "Judge, jailer, and jury" situation. Wait a while, or just resubmit the photo at a later point.
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:16 AM   #32
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And I recently submitted one, and didn't hear anything on it for about a week. But when I did, my photo was accepted.

I would suggest that if you immediately appeal a photo, you are likely to have the same screener consider your photo again (although admittedly, I do not know the inner workings of the appeal process; that is, if it is structured enough where someone other than the rejecting screener reviews an appeal). And what changed from 5 minutes ago? All you do is put yourself in a "Judge, jailer, and jury" situation. Wait a while, or just resubmit the photo at a later point.
Isn't a second screener supposed to have a look?

This thread inspired me to see how my 25 rejects are doing over on flickr: 25,839 total views. Two years ago I wouldn't have thought that possible. Assuming a 3:1 ratio, might have been 75,000 views here.
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:02 AM   #33
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I would hope a second screener does review appeals, but I do not know enough about the process to say that happens. A second screener viewing would be a true appeal, though.

Those are impressive stats on your rejects. Flickr seems to be gaining a lot of traction among my friends who don't post here. And almost all of them are leaving rrpicturearchives.net, which is a resource I use frequently.

I don't know a whole lot about flickr, but it seems to be a good spot for photo posting, yet just like Facebook, if you're trying to find something which happened more than a few days ago, good luck.

If flickr evolves to an archival, searchable database, Railpictures.net could have a serious competitor on its hands. But right now, I don't see that.
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:25 AM   #34
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As it was told in the past, once a shot is rejected and then appealed, it goes to the admins to process. However, it's no secret that one admin does the bulk of the screening (and has for quite a while), so is it possible they would also screen the appeal thereof?

I'm certainly not an expert on the appeal process, though. I think you could count my appeals in 9 years on one hand with a couple digits missing from a horrible camera accident.

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Old 03-15-2015, 03:31 AM   #35
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I hear you on that, Loyd. My personal MO is "Oh, you don't like that one? OK, let me go find something else." But having posted little here over the past decade, I have a pretty big archive from which to choose...
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:51 AM   #36
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I hear you on that, Loyd. My personal MO is "Oh, you don't like that one? OK, let me go find something else." But having posted little here over the past decade, I have a pretty big archive from which to choose...
If I count the ones I pulled from the older days (removed due to lacking quality as I progressed as a photographer), I have only submitted 500 or so out of a collection of several hundred thousand RP-able photos. It's no issue when a rejection comes around.

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Old 03-15-2015, 04:14 AM   #37
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... I have only submitted 500 or so out of a collection of several hundred thousand RP-able photos. It's no issue when a rejection comes around.
I think Loyd has hit on two things here that are at the core. First, he is obviously doing his own editing. Instead of going out for a day and filling a memory card, then coming home and uploading the whole thing to RPN, he is carefully selecting a very small percentage. (Of my own shots, I consider only about 5% of them to be really any good.)

Second, Loyd isn't taking ANY of this personally. When I took a few art and photography courses in college, as a class we were encouraged to tear each other's work apart. We could be brutal! At the time I thought this was to help us quickly improve, and it did that, but looking back it also helped prepare us for the Real World. I think some people get too emotionally invested in their shots. Let's be honest, most of our shots really aren't that interesting. Add to this that something like photography is HIGHLY subjective. If you are logical you'll conclude that having a shot "rejected" by a couple of people just doesn't mean all that much to the quality of your life. If it pushes you over the edge, chances are you were sitting pretty close to the edge to begin with. Just because someone somewhere, even if that person is a "screener", doesn't like your shot, it doesn't mean that you're not a worthwhile person, good husband, caring father, or whatever. You have to keep a sense of balance, sense of perspective about life.


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Old 03-15-2015, 02:35 PM   #38
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1. he trains of India, China, Argentina, and the dampfzug of Baveria and UK are all very high on my list to go see. :
You are welcome any day. Shall be glad to provide any information required on your railfanning trip/s here in India.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:05 PM   #39
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Daniel--

.../...

Your black et white steam photos are an entirely different matter. Some are pure genius! You have a recent one here that reminds me very much of the British photographer (c.1920s) E.O. Hoppe:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...=515906&nseq=5

You have a number of these that I find very good and would frame and hang on my wall. Some of your other black et white work reminds me of the great Brassai! And yet, you mostly seem to do the less inspired color photos. Perhaps you have your priorities backwards? Speaking just for myself, I'd like to see less of this:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...485898&nseq=52

and more of this!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...488440&nseq=48
et
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...471454&nseq=90
Thanks for compliments about B&W steam photos, steam and B&W mix quiet well and are timeless.

I have a big interest for high speed trains, I also like steam.
It is not the same "artistic" machines and it very difficult to make creative shoot between steam and TGV. TGV are running more that 250 Kp/h and steam are in general limited to 80 Kp/h on tracks. Technical shot are really different. anyway, when you see the view statistics on my photos you can see that the steam views are in general less than others of my photo book !
When I said that RPN is to "American locked", I mean that the variety of locomotives or trainsets you have in America is really less than Europe or other countries. So when you see counter views of American photos between Europe views, the difference is to far ! But certainly much American public on RPN.
I take more TGVs photos because locations are nearest, the French high speed line 1 is at 2 km of home !

For "inspired color pictures", I think this one (in joined file) was better but RPN screeners have rejected more times different versions and each time for different reasons ! So that's my disappointment, this photo is technically interesting due to the use of 2x optical converter associated with a 200mm focal at down-lighting. I have explain it on the photo comments but sometimes I have sentiment that it is not read and specific creativity can't be appreciate.

Sorry for my non perfect English
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Old 03-16-2015, 12:11 AM   #40
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Thanks for compliments about B&W steam photos, steam and B&W mix quiet well and are timeless.

I have a big interest for high speed trains, I also like steam.
It is not the same "artistic" machines and it very difficult to make creative shoot between steam and TGV. TGV are running more that 250 Kp/h

You could try this for TGV. Make the speed your friend, not your enemy. At twilight, or even later at astronomical twilight, be set up for your TGV this way: straight on shot, that is perpendicular and not angled. Long shutter speed for ambient light, maybe 1/30s or longer? Lens set to something like f4, ISO 800. Have two flash hidden out of view, triggered remotely. Push shutter as train just enters the scene. Flash will fire, momentarily freezing the engines, but the shutter will stay open making the rest of the train blur. If there is an engine on the rear as well, you could experiment using camera set to "rear curtain" flash fire. I think there might be different ways to use the speed to make the shot more dynamic. There is nothing about your photos that is showing me this is a very fast train, and that might be a key?


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Old 03-16-2015, 07:35 AM   #41
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I don't know the situation in the rest of Europe,but try using flash to photograph a moving train in the U.K. and you'll find yourself in front of the Transport Police very very quickly.
Sad but true.
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Old 03-16-2015, 09:26 AM   #42
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On the subject of India, I will say one thing:

There are Alcos EVERYWHERE!

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Old 03-16-2015, 09:43 PM   #43
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I don't know the situation in the rest of Europe,but try using flash to photograph a moving train in the U.K. and you'll find yourself in front of the Transport Police very very quickly.
Sad but true.
Why is that?
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Old 03-16-2015, 10:30 PM   #44
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So I guess the moral of this story is that good photographers can take mediocre pictures too...
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:06 AM   #45
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So I guess the moral of this story is that good photographers can take mediocre pictures too...

A running joke in photography is if you only show your very best stuff, people will think you're a better photographer than you really are.


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Old 03-17-2015, 01:23 AM   #46
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A running joke in photography is if you only show your very best stuff, people will think you're a better photographer than you really are.
I tell people that I am a 1% photographer. I have 100,000 images on my computer. You see about 1,000 here on RP. In my case, the posted images don't necessarily represent the ones I like best, but rather, what I think the audience here will find interesting.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:00 AM   #47
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Why is that?
The powers that be (Train Operating Companies/Freight Operating Companies) have decreed that using flash "could be a distraction to the driver",and,as such,do not allow the use of flash equipment.
Speaking as an ex driver myself,I would not agree with their views - but I'm in no position to challenge them.
Just another obstruction to railway photography in the U.K. - it's hard enough with limited access,overgrown lineside vegetation et al. And that's not mentioning the weather !!
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:33 PM   #48
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The powers that be (Train Operating Companies/Freight Operating Companies) have decreed that using flash "could be a distraction to the driver",and,as such,do not allow the use of flash equipment.

I have seen running steam engine shots from UK flashed at night. Many of the train crew I flash report they didn't even realize I took their photo when I used the little 4AA flash. Usually only one or two are pointed in the direction of the cab. I can get by with 1/2 power too. And if they get "distracted", what would be the consequence? They lose control and steer into the ditch? After nearly ten years now I've never had a complaint. I do hear what you're saying about unreasonable authorities. I would think that if you picked your spot carefully, you could get your shot and be miles away before anyone showed up to investigate.


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Old 03-17-2015, 01:16 PM   #49
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I have seen running steam engine shots from UK flashed at night. Many of the train crew I flash report they didn't even realize I took their photo when I used the little 4AA flash. Usually only one or two are pointed in the direction of the cab. I can get by with 1/2 power too. And if they get "distracted", what would be the consequence? They lose control and steer into the ditch? After nearly ten years now I've never had a complaint. I do hear what you're saying about unreasonable authorities. I would think that if you picked your spot carefully, you could get your shot and be miles away before anyone showed up to investigate.


Kent in SD
Was that on a preserved line or the National Network ?

We're a crowded little island over here. As has been pointed out already, many good locations have already been rendered useless by vegetation growth. The vast majority of usable locations will be near a road or habitation. Multi unit flash photography (for any subject) is almost unknown over here. Hang around setting up remote flash units, let alone setting one off in a drivers face WILL attract a visit from the police in very quick time

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Old 03-17-2015, 02:26 PM   #50
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I have seen running steam engine shots from UK flashed at night. Many of the train crew I flash report they didn't even realize I took their photo when I used the little 4AA flash. Usually only one or two are pointed in the direction of the cab. I can get by with 1/2 power too. And if they get "distracted", what would be the consequence? They lose control and steer into the ditch?
Hi Kent,

The biggest concern that I would have about using flashes is temporary degradation of the crew's night vision. It takes about 30 or more minutes for the human eyes to adapt to the dark and develop their maximum sensitivity. As a pilot for more than 30 years, my training and experience says that for best vision, I need to avoid exposure to bright lights, once my eyes are dark-adapted. The concern is, of course, that if the crew's vision is degraded, even for just a short time, and something were to appear on the tracks ahead, their recognition of the situation, and therefore their response, could be delayed. When it comes to stopping a train, every second of warning is precious.

I've been tempted to try night flash photography, but the stories that I hear from pilot colleagues about being flashed with laser pointers and other devices during the critical minute or two before landing just leave me concerned about putting train crews in a similar position.
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