Old 10-30-2008, 08:32 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
The photo is no longer an accurate representation of the scene.
Mike, wrt RP I agree - because that is the RP wants it!

Wrt your photography I agree - because that is how you want it!

Wtr to all photography, and in particular art photography (= non-documentation photography), I disagree. People are not necessarily representing literally. They want to capture a vision of what they view as important in an image in order to convey something - a view of the world, call it Photography is a tool for that. Post-processing is a tool for that. The clone stamp is a tool for that.

You practice one kind of photography. Others do something else sometimes. Other than making RP rules clear to newbies, please stop pushing your rules for yourself onto others, as if they should bother to follow them. Another example, your dislike for BNSF (or is it UP? can't remember), it has gotten boring. It is a dull comment to make, and uninformative, so how about just keeping it to yourself when those posts come up. It is really boring, a waste of space.
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Last edited by JRMDC; 10-30-2008 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JRMDC
Mike, wrt RP I agree - because that is the RP wants it!

Wrt your photography I agree - because that is how you want it!

Wtr to all photography, and in particular art photography (= non-documentation photography), I disagree. People are not necessarily representing literally. They want to capture a vision of what they view as important in an image in order to convey something - a view of the world, call it Photography is a tool for that. Post-processing is a tool for that. The clone stamp is a tool for that.
What/who is wrt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
You practice one kind of photography. Others do something else sometimes. Other than making RP rules clear to newbies, please stop pushing your rules for yourself onto others, as if they should bother to follow them. Another example, your dislike for BNSF (or is it UP? can't remember), it has gotten boring. It is a dull comment to make, and uninformative, so how about just keeping it to yourself when those posts come up. It is really boring, a waste of space.
Is that directed at me, or someone else?
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:34 PM   #53
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What/who is wrt?
With Regards To.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:23 AM   #54
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Is that directed at me, or someone else?
You! (fillerfillerfillerfillerfilleraarghtheneedforfill er)
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:01 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by JRMDC
You practice one kind of photography. Others do something else sometimes. Other than making RP rules clear to newbies, please stop pushing your rules for yourself onto others, as if they should bother to follow them. Another example, your dislike for BNSF (or is it UP? can't remember), it has gotten boring. It is a dull comment to make, and uninformative, so how about just keeping it to yourself when those posts come up. It is really boring, a waste of space.
I admit that sometimes I do try to force my guidelines onto others, but I am very opinionated about things that I am passionate about. I guess that makes up for all the things that I don't care about and don't have much of an opinion on, such as politics. (I think it's just a soap opera without the sex)

I don't know why you felt the need to bring up my dislike of the UP for (I quite like BNSF). If anyone should get called out for poking fun at UP it should be Ween. He brings up his feelings about UP much more than I do.

Do you think railroad photography is a form of documentation?
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:31 AM   #56
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I admit that sometimes I do try to force my guidelines onto others, but I am very opinionated about things that I am passionate about.
Fair enough, and no one is perfect. I wonder sometimes if there are ways you could be opinionated without the forcing.

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I don't know why you felt the need to bring up my dislike of the UP for (I quite like BNSF). If anyone should get called out for poking fun at UP it should be Ween. He brings up his feelings about UP much more than I do.
As I recall it, you are the one who regularly lowers the level of discourse by popping in and "assisting" a poster by saying the problem with their photo is that it is of the UP. Unhelpful, not funny - the "joke" is worn to the bone - and grating, perhaps only to me. Comes across - to me - as another dimension of how you push your guidelines. Another way in which if something that is a taste and can vary in polite company displeases Mike B, you will pop in. There is a parallel to your views on photography; you don't have much tolerance, it seems, for those who approach it differently than you.

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Do you think railroad photography is a form of documentation?
I think one form or one category of railroad photography is that, and there are others that are not. Actually, I think of it more as a continuum, with pure documentation on one end and pure artistry on the other. With some other sort of dimension to reflect the fact that photography is a medium with limits, as all technologies have, and it is impossible to achieve perfect documentation or representation due to issues like dynamic range, two dimensionality, etc.
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:32 AM   #57
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If anyone should get called out for poking fun at UP it should be Ween. He brings up his feelings about UP much more than I do.
I guess my forum ass-hattery is at a much lower level, so it's easy to overlook my posts about the UP. Just a thought...
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JRMDC
Fair enough, and no one is perfect. I wonder sometimes if there are ways you could be opinionated without the forcing.
I probably could do it in a less forceful way, but I speak it the way I think it. I don't like people who sugar coat things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
As I recall it, you are the one who regularly lowers the level of discourse by popping in and "assisting" a poster by saying the problem with their photo is that it is of the UP. Unhelpful, not funny - the "joke" is worn to the bone - and grating, perhaps only to me. Comes across - to me - as another dimension of how you push your guidelines. Another way in which if something that is a taste and can vary in polite company displeases Mike B, you will pop in. There is a parallel to your views on photography; you don't have much tolerance, it seems, for those who approach it differently than you.
Aright, if it annoys you I'll stop making that remark. And yes, you are absolutely right, I do have little tolerance for people who don't view this hobby as I do. I emailed Chris Kilroy a few days ago asking if what I was saying in a thread was alright. I never heard a yay or nay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
I think one form or one category of railroad photography is that, and there are others that are not. Actually, I think of it more as a continuum, with pure documentation on one end and pure artistry on the other. With some other sort of dimension to reflect the fact that photography is a medium with limits, as all technologies have, and it is impossible to achieve perfect documentation or representation due to issues like dynamic range, two dimensionality, etc.
So, you think that some railroad photography is documentation while others is not? I think of all railroad photography as documentation, but when someone starts alternating reality in PP it becomes art not documentation. Those photos that are doctored no longer qualify as railroad photography, in my humble opinion of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I guess my forum ass-hattery is at a much lower level, so it's easy to overlook my posts about the UP. Just a thought...
I think you're 100% correct and it's not the first time it has happened. I would rather say what I really think and have people hate as a result then only tell half-truths and have people like me.

Last edited by Mike B.; 10-31-2008 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:24 AM   #59
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So, you think that some railroad photography is documentation while others is not? I think of all railroad photography as documentation, but when someone starts alternating reality in PP it becomes art not documentation. Those photos that are doctored no longer qualify as railroad photography, in my humble opinion of course.
If you exclude art photography with trains as subjects from the category of railroad photography, on the basis of alteration from pure or literal representation, then we differ in how we define terms.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:32 AM   #60
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If you exclude art photography with trains as subjects from the category of railroad photography, on the basis of alteration from pure or literal representation, then we differ in how we define terms.
So...you think a doctored photo of a train is railroad photography? Railroad photography is accurate documentation that hopefully looks good, but if it is not accurate documentation then it is no longer railroad photography, in my humble opinion of course.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:40 AM   #61
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So...you think a doctored photo of a train is railroad photography? Railroad photography is accurate documentation that hopefully looks good, but if it is not accurate documentation then it is no longer railroad photography, in my humble opinion of course.
It's just a difference in definitions. I will humbly assert my strong suspicion that many more view things my way than yours, with doctored photography as a sub-genre of rail photography. Or perhaps doctoring as a technique for achieving better results in various sub-genres of rail photography. But it isn't a popularity contest. Well, actually, it is easier to communicate with people who use terms in the same way one does oneself, so popularity does lead to utility, at least.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:22 PM   #62
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I think one form or one category of railroad photography is that, and there are others that are not. Actually, I think of it more as a continuum, with pure documentation on one end and pure artistry on the other.
And one must strive to present their reality within that continuum.
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