Old 08-12-2008, 04:00 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by NSditch
Simply stated, perspective is reality. And when I look at that image, it is in line with what generally seems to be Gary's perspective based on his other works.
...
If you don't like the style...don't shoot or process like that. Simple enough.
We are not talking about shooting but about photo appreciation. And yes, I can and do skip clicking on something, so the issue is not liking it or not. But my question is, to repeat, what makes it "work"?

"Perspective is reality" is pretty unclear to me. One can argue that this shot stretches the light and color of a natural scene beyond what the eye expects to see. So, at least my eyes, and I think those of many others also, look at that scene and, instead of doing the usual subconscious adjustments that translate the colors and light to what we have experience looking at (reality), our eyes reject the scene and say it is distinctly different from reality.

Now, as an artistic manipulation of a daytime scene for non-representational purposes, hey, anyone can do what they want to do to achieve their artistic vision. But if one is trying to represent reality as one's goal, well, this is an example of where one can fall short, or perhaps put better, go off the side. And I've never heard that Gary attempts to distort reality for artistic purposes.

As for his other works, hard to compare natural light daytime shots with artificial light night shots on the dimensions of light and color.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Darryl Rule
Well could you provide us with some of your work so we can see what kind of shots should be posted on this site? Your only link is to the NS website, so that doesn't really show your personal work.
Yes. I think we'd all love to see some of the gems you take.

You've been saying quite a lot for a person with only 12 total posts.

Do you have a name or did your parents really name you "NSDitch?"
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by F40PH271
Yes. I think we'd all love to see some of the gems you take.

You've been saying quite a lot for a person with only 12 total posts.

Do you have a name or did your parents really name you "NSDitch?"
Please keep this polite. We are just discussing railroad photography and everyone here is entitled to an opinion.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:30 PM   #54
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Please keep this polite.
He is. All that was asked was if NSDitch had any work for us to view. Thats all. I think its a fair question to ask him since he seems to have a wealth of knowledge and opinions.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey
Please keep this polite. We are just discussing railroad photography and everyone here is entitled to an opinion.
Tom and Paul both have a legitimate concern. Anytime someone new comes to the forums and starts talking like that some credentials are generally expected. This is especially true from someone who has no specific information provided as to who they are. Signing posts by your forum name, having a cooperate website as your homepage, and having no other useful information besides a birthday on your info page raises some questions.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSditch
And when I look at that image, it is in line with what generally seems to be Gary's perspective based on his other works.
Really? Here are some other examples of his day time shots --

Image © Gary Knapp
PhotoID: 246101
Photograph © Gary Knapp


Taken the same day that he took this one --

Image © Gary Knapp
PhotoID: 246103
Photograph © Gary Knapp


Oddly, his most popular shot on RP is a day time shot.

Image © Gary Knapp
PhotoID: 137565
Photograph © Gary Knapp


But that one shot we're talking about looks nothing like anything I've seen on RP by him or anyone else.


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Old 08-12-2008, 09:25 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by NSditch
However, I am more than happy to disagree over images such as these which have such a bold artistic statement, then some of the recently accepted images which serve to promote generic and novice imagery.
Well that's the real trick now isn't it. For those of us peons that haven't had the success of Gary Knapp, the picture that started this thread would have been rejected in a heartbeat as "overprocessed". However, since it was Gary Knapp who apparently sees reality differently than most, it's considered to be a bold artisitc statement of a true "artiste". Hmm. To me, it looks like an expiriment, and the joke is on all of us "novices".

That's fine; if that's what's cutting edge, then let everyone else submit shots like that. It's the dawn of a new era.

Still not sure how the velvet oil painting from Canada made it in though.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:50 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
Really? Here are some other examples of his day time shots --
Wow, all three of those are way overprocessed.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:17 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
Signing posts by your forum name, having a cooperate website as your homepage, and having no other useful information besides a birthday on your info page raises some questions.
C'mon all. Let's keep this civil now. As to the requests...

Perfectly reasonable and understandable Brad, and others. However, some employers are not so friendly about having ferroequinologists on the payroll, as some of my close friends and fellow employees have discovered lately the hard way. One of whom, you know personally.

I apologize if self preservation is seen as arrogance.

A link to my personal image page has been added to my profile. You can find it there. I'm just beginning to add to it, so pardon the meager offerings. I was only recently convinced by a colleague to post. My better work is on film, and is in the process of being scanned.

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Old 08-13-2008, 12:56 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ccaranna
Well that's the real trick now isn't it. For those of us peons that haven't had the success of Gary Knapp, the picture that started this thread would have been rejected in a heartbeat as "overprocessed". However, since it was Gary Knapp who apparently sees reality differently than most, it's considered to be a bold artisitc statement of a true "artiste".
Well put, Charles.

It is a great work of art that is perfect for flickr or deviantART, but not RP.net. This particular image stretches the limitations of what I thought was acceptable for RP.net, mainly because of the upload guidelines page and 99.999% of the photos that were uploaded before it. I have never once said it was a bad pierce of art work or a terrible image. However, I think it has absolutely no place here on RP.net. Unfortunately, I feel as though I am in the minority with my opinion as most seem to look at the image as some ground breaking forum of railroad photography only on the basis of some type of extreme saturation and masking done on a computer in post processing. I am not trying to knock Gary in any manner; I just think it does not have a place here on RP.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NSditch
Perfectly reasonable and understandable Brad, and others. However, some employers are not so friendly about having ferroequinologists on the payroll, as some of my close friends and fellow employees have discovered lately the hard way. One of whom, you know personally.

I apologize if self preservation is seen as arrogance.
Iím not quiet sure what to make of your post. Are you trying to say you work for the railroad and are afraid that talking about trains on an internet forum will somehow put in you jeopardy of loosing your job? Iím not here to tell you what you should or should not do; however, I think that might be a little extreme. I know quiet a few people who post in message forums that work for the railroad and they do not seem to be loosing their jobs.

I just really question someone who comes into the forums posting as many bold messages as you have all while being a man of mystery.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:57 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSditch
ferroequinologists
Wow, now we are overcooking grammar
Impressive though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSditch
My better work is on film, and is in the process of being scanned.
Would you have any ferruginous evening shots in that collection?
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by PLEzero
Well put, Charles.

It is a great work of art that is perfect for flickr or deviantART, but not RP.net. This particular image stretches the limitations of what I thought was acceptable for RP.net, mainly because of the upload guidelines page and 99.999% of the photos that were uploaded before it. I have never once said it was a bad pierce of art work or a terrible image. However, I think it has absolutely no place here on RP.net. Unfortunately, I feel as though I am in the minority with my opinion as most seem to look at the image as some ground breaking forum of railroad photography only on the basis of some type of extreme saturation and masking done on a computer in post processing. I am not trying to knock Gary in any manner; I just think it does not have a place here on RP.
I'm with you on this one. Like Joe, I never bothered looking past the thumbnail.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Northern Limits
Wow, now we are overcooking grammar
Impressive though.
Cheap shot. Have you never heard that term?
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:12 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
I have never once said it was a bad pierce of art work or a terrible image. However, I think it has absolutely no place here on RP.net. Unfortunately, I feel as though I am in the minority with my opinion as most seem to look at the image as some ground breaking forum of railroad photography only on the basis of some type of extreme saturation and masking done on a computer in post processing.
Why do you have the impression you are in the minority? Maybe I should go back through the thread, but that is not the impression I have. I am with you, except that I don't even think it is a "great work of art" as the post-processing offers little except looking weird.

At any rate, I have never seen it said or heard that Knapp is trying to make non-representational "art" so I find it a) puzzling that the image looks as it does, and b) probably an HDR job that he and one screener find is of good quality and many others do not.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:14 AM   #65
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Whether the contributor name was there or not, it would have never made it in the DB if I had been screening nor would have Matt's. (No offense just looks a bit over-the-top.)
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:24 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by JRMDC
Why do you have the impression you are in the minority? Maybe I should go back through the thread, but that is not the impression I have.
After a second consideration I suppose that I am not in the minority. The majority of people involved in the discussion seem to agree that the image is over processed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Whether the contributor name was there or not, it would have never made it in the DB if I had been screening nor would have Matt's. (No offense just looks a bit over-the-top.)
Well that knocks off one of the five listed screeners. Whoever accepted the show has been silent so far on the topic. I am interested to read why it was accepted. That is not to say I am waiting to attack their response, simply interested to read the logic behind the decision whatever it may be.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:50 AM   #67
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I've got no dog in this fight... but wanted to point out one tangent that I do agree with...

...whatever you post on line, be careful... and don't jeopardize your job... I'm actually involved in corporate compliance, and I can tell you that what you post on line will one day be read by someone who decides whether or not you keep your job (even this post, could be)... so be smart... protect yourself. This is not a free speech issue... is a being smart issue.

Okay, back to the overprocessing.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:51 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by chris crook
Cheap shot. Have you never heard that term?
Honest Chris, never heard the term before. To me it sounds like a fancy name for an iron or smelter worker.
So enlighten me ..
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:55 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Northern Limits
Honest Chris, never heard the term before. To me it sounds like a fancy name for an iron or smelter worker.
So enlighten me ..
ferroequinologists

ferro = iron
equine = horse
ologist = scientist

Sorry, but I don't happen to know the Latin for "foamer".
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:56 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Limits
Honest Chris, never heard the term before. To me it sounds like a fancy name for an iron or smelter worker.
So enlighten me ..
All it is, is a humorous, nonstandard word, meaning one who studies trains.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:11 AM   #71
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Giveing new meaning of a Krapp shot in my book, just don't like it.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

Taken the same day that he took this one --

Image © Gary Knapp
PhotoID: 246103
Photograph © Gary Knapp




Joe

Ive never seen a church glow along the edges like that before!
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:25 AM   #73
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Quote:
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Ive never seen a church glow along the edges like that before!
Well, now that you and Jim mentioned it, it does look over processed to me, too. I think there's a fine line between too much and just enough and to me Knapp went beyond it. The second shot is not that far out. Matthew's shot, on the other hand, approaches that line, but does not cross it. In fact, I'd like to get into HDR, maybe not for RP, and his shot is something that I would like to try to recreate.


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Old 08-13-2008, 03:36 AM   #74
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I think that over all, the last of the 3 shots you posted looks good to me, nothing sticks out to me.

But that church shot is horribly done. Everything looks messed up, the sky is extremely blotchy and pixelated, the church its self is glowing, the grass, shadows, and train all also appear to glow. Im not a big fan of this affect.


The sky was also darkened considerably, and I personally find nothing wrong with that, but that he did not take his time. He probably spent a minute or two doing it. If he had taken his time the edges along the church, trees, and train would not be noticeable at all, and would be a lot more appealing.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:11 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bowman
Ive never seen a church glow along the edges like that before!
Nonsense, that's the Power of JEEZUS!!

(Can I get an amen?)
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