Old 06-06-2008, 11:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jdirelan87
I don't mean to come across as confrontational, but man, what a simpleton perspective you have on railfanning. You only go out when something good is coming, so you can what, shoot a power wedgie?

I get alot of heads up too, but seeing something rare is just icing on the cake, my primary goal is to get (or at least try to) an interesting angle, regardless of the power. There are tons of people just like you around and frankly, I find their work boring and uninspired.
Since I prefer to only shoot good power that makes my photos boring and unsurprised? I just want to shoot things that actually interest me, and Dash 9s and GEVOs do not interest me.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:28 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by PLEzero
Well, that was disappointing. For someone who is as outspoken as yourself I was expecting a bit more than that.
I'm terribly sorry to disappoint you, but the feeling is mutual. Your most recent photos are good, although somewhat repetitive, but after the first couple of pages it gets quite boring and questionable.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
Since I prefer to only shoot good power that makes my photos boring and unsurprised? I just want to shoot things that actually interest me, and Dash 9s and GEVOs do not interest me.
Maybe not you...But waht about your kids or grandkids that wont have many GEVO's running around like we see them today?
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:37 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by NSFan14
Maybe not you...But waht about your kids or grandkids that wont have many GEVO's running around like we see them today?
First of all, I'm taking all of these photos for myself and no one else. This is my hobby and I'll do what I enjoy the most. I work for other people enough during the week so I'm not going to let that trickle into my hobbies. Second, there are plenty of photos of GEVOs and if my kids or grandkids have a real interest in trains, I'm sure they will look at other peoples photos. Third, I'm sure a SD40-2 in 2008 will be much more impressive when viewed in 20 years than a GEVO.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:01 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
First of all, I'm taking all of these photos for myself and no one else. This is my hobby and I'll do what I enjoy the most. I work for other people enough during the week so I'm not going to let that trickle into my hobbies. Second, there are plenty of photos of GEVOs and if my kids or grandkids have a real interest in trains, I'm sure they will look at other peoples photos. Third, I'm sure a SD40-2 in 2008 will be much more impressive when viewed in 20 years than a GEVO.
Why are engines deliverd when I was already an adult now the old stuff that people are chasing? Why? Why? Why? I still think I'm 16.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:06 AM   #56
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Andrew, first off, thank you for giving a descriptive answer and taking the time to do so.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
It sounds like you think rejection reasons are some sort of checklist that the photo must pass in order to make it into the DB which is hardly true. RP sells itself as being the best railroad photos on the net which means a wide variety of style, composition, use of light, etc. One reason the screening system works (although some may argue that) is because all of us are open to anything and everything regardless of our own personal styles or likings. "Potentially better shots" is a very subjective term and goes along the lines of "well, I don't understand why this boring wide angle, broadside shot got in while my interesting 300mm telephoto didn't." This is putting ones own personal photographic preferences above looking at the photos for what they are in terms of how they sell themselves on subject alone. On to the photo itself!
I don't feel that screeners have a checklist that has to be complied to but do feel there are certain hurdles that stand in the way of a photo getting a longer look and "foreground clutter" and "bad angle" seem to be key areas that the screeners look at besides all the technical areas. Having seen shots get rejected with a little brush, clump of grass or other natural objects that might be covering a small portion of the running gear seem minute compared to the shot I brought up and it opened my eyes as to how little of a train one could have in the picture and get consideration. I guess it wasn't so much how little but the fact that so much of each area seem to have incomplete views (smoke cut off, cars boxed in by the fence, running gear chopped....) to have all these in a photo that yes did have raindrops in view was revealing to see what got a nod.



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The standards set for screening photos here are not set in stone which is why they are known as 'guidelines' not rules. I hope my submission does in fact lead to the submission of more shots that don't follow the guidelines because there are many, many more types of styles that have not been tried Does that mean they are all going to get accepted automatically? No way. .
It is refreshing to see that "out of the box' and "pushing the envelope" type of photos on the RP db and you have shared many great shots on that theme. I would say that while many are trying that approach, many are reluctant too with rejections that don't seem to make sense (while I'll agree most of the time the screeners are correct ) on shots they submit or ones they've seen in the forum. I can speak from experience when I first became a member that besides the regular shots, I had submitted shots that weren't the norm such as a dozen or so similar to my avitar and the rejections weren't for the quality but for things around "no interest or material they wish not to add to the db" which struck me as odd. Like you did, I had several comments and views from photographers which compelled me to scan the slides and then process to upload. I know that after trying a good amount and getting the same dose of rejections the incentive to share some of my experiences became tainted. Time changes and so does what a screener may accept and as a a result some of the shots could be resubmitted if time permitted, which is highly unlikely soon.

While persistance usually pays off for the hard workers, sometimes the screeners seem to have a reason/rejection that is incorrect and at that point, IMO appeals usually end up not changing the outcome. One series pictures I have submitted from the Cog on Mt Washington had that fate. Most familiar with the weather on the mountain and the area know it is home to some of the wildest weather on earth and having climbed the mountain in all seasons I've been part of some wild events and the photos I took of the Cog this day were after a rain shower had coated the rocks, then a fog was created with the sun playing games and to make a long story short the rejection I got on the train photos was wrong exposure after having some pictures made to give to fellow hikers as it portrayed the event/day so well! It was explained in an appeal for the same results and I still get baffled thinking it was denied for a reason that didn't make sense , like others do today. This may have gone off in a tangent but I think it's ok considering the thread I started has half the posts dealing with charters... .

I'm a big fan of having all types of weather being included in the db as trains run in that very same conditions and using nature in the train shots just adds to the interest. Now I know if it rains on a train trip to find a meadow, fence and mix it up a bit, maybe catch a train or if I really want a standout shot, get part of a train and a pair of woman's legs and watch the hits come my way .

Thanks all, Rich
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:41 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
Since I prefer to only shoot good power that makes my photos boring and unsurprised? I just want to shoot things that actually interest me, and Dash 9s and GEVOs do not interest me.

Hmmmmm......Well, whats so bad with shooting a Dash 9 or GEVO? Just because they are so common? Mike, you are a 'top of the page' guy, and I was definitely expecting this from you.... just so you could say something against something, against everyone elses practices, against the norm...sure they get tiring, but what difference does it make? You, Mike, are the only one I have ever heard say that, and 12 years from now, if diesel is still around, we will all look back, and think of Dash-9's like we do of, say, your 'good power', and when you do get some GEVO's, or Dash 9's, your shots are better, beacuse looking at a page full of SD40-2's is no more exciting than AC44OW's. And, just like some of our other members, I was quite dissapointed, staring at your slightly off-angle, custom wedgies, hardly any snow shots, because backrounds CERTAINLY make more of a difference for me, and I got bored by the second page. I don't care if you have a GP20C, because you completely destroy it with bare trees, and hardly any snow on the ground, and maybe the occasional CLIFF. My reasoning for backrounds is simple. I like the backround more tha the train 98% of the time, and most are not too interesting. The reason for that is beacuse, would you rather simply look at a train led by some rarer power against a pure black backround, or beautiful scenery, which is lacked in alot of your pictures. I will say this now, before you cut reading, Mike, and simply rampage yourself, and blame it all on Ween And JimThias, that some of your pics have some interesting backrounds. But some other ones are just.......blah....yep, like your,ahhh, dirty snow, telephone polls, and ummmm........what else? To be dead honest, Mike, I am not surprised that shot hardly got any views, compared to some of your other more viewed pictures.. There is no interest in that shot. If I could make one rule of thumb for railway photography it would be this: Just because it is not a very common locomotive, or a rare one, DOES NOT make the picture more interesting. Mike, since you seem to have such a difficult time being proved wrong, or completely absorbing the information to make a logical conclusion out of it, I will go very in depth, and put it in Mike B. terms....when taking pictures, in this case of railroads and their good power, make sure you are in a good area, AND IN A GOOD ANGLE!!! There is nothing more boring than looking at the rarer power, and don't get me wrong, I love rare power, in a terrible angle, with a terrible backround, with a tiny bit of snow on the ground. And, if you ever some across a situation like this, MAKE SOMETHING INTERESTING OUT OF IT!! Don't just do what you, Mike, have don in almost all of your other rare power shots, and just take on a variation of the wedgie, which I have now decided should be called a
wedge-b. You seem to think that just because you have a GP30C, you can ONLY have it in wedge-b form. No. No no no. No. For the sake of hell, MAKE IT AN INTERESTING ANGLE. Try something different, maybe put the camera on the rail, or at least do something. Depending on the situation (i.e weather, area, engineer crankiness, ground covering), tweak your angle, color mode (i.e Sepia and BW) and overall compostition to make a more interesting shot. Change what you think while fanning, and, if you know whats coming through, like you seem to magically know, Mike, try imagining an interesting angle. And, even better yet, plan ahead. Do you know where you will ultimately begin, and by begin, I mean are you planning on chasing it? If you are, plan ahead your location, or at least your starting location. If, however, you are going to another state or unfamiliar area, LEARN. Learn about your destination, and I don't mean the best pizza place. I mean where can you get the 1.) Best 2.) Most Colorful 3.) Most interesting 4.)*Rarest* 5.) Most Comfortable pictures. It will alwyas be best to do this! Debating between the place by the library and the yard? Well, consider those 4 or 5 elements I listed earlier and, you should be able to soon enough figure out where to go. Even if youre debating between the two, decide which has the more elements, or the more element that conform to your needs, or desires, in a shot. For example, if the place by the library, which will be place a herein, is colorful, interesting, and comfortable, meanwhile the yard is rare, it is up to you to decide, but whichever choice you make, always make sure you somehow make your shot better than the rest of them, make it more powerful, make it lure the viewers in, make them decide they love it, love it right from the begiining, make them decide to jump right to this one thumbnail, this one image. Define the whole website, if you get really into it......never know, your pic could replace the LaGrange one at the top page. But, Mike, with that attitude, yours won't, cause front page power=big power. Hopefully, you'll be able to take this, after just looking at your signature I got a little worried......

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Old 06-07-2008, 01:42 AM   #58
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now thats funny
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:07 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by River Rails Photography
Hmmmmm......Well, whats so bad with shooting a Dash 9 or GEVO? Just because they are so common? Mike, you are a 'top of the page' guy, and I was definitely expecting this from you.... just so you could say something against something, against everyone elses practices, against the norm...sure they get tiring, but what difference does it make? You, Mike, are the only one I have ever heard say that, and 12 years from now, if diesel is still around, we will all look back, and think of Dash-9's like we do of, say, your 'good power', and when you do get some GEVO's, or Dash 9's, your shots are better, beacuse looking at a page full of SD40-2's is no more exciting than AC44OW's. And, just like some of our other members, I was quite dissapointed, staring at your slightly off-angle, custom wedgies, hardly any snow shots, because backrounds CERTAINLY make more of a difference for me, and I got bored by the second page. I don't care if you have a GP20C, because you completely destroy it with bare trees, and hardly any snow on the ground, and maybe the occasional CLIFF. My reasoning for backrounds is simple. I like the backround more tha the train 98% of the time, and most are not too interesting. The reason for that is beacuse, would you rather simply look at a train led by some rarer power against a pure black backround, or beautiful scenery, which is lacked in alot of your pictures. I will say this now, before you cut reading, Mike, and simply rampage yourself, and blame it all on Ween And JimThias, that some of your pics have some interesting backrounds. But some other ones are just.......blah....yep, like your,ahhh, dirty snow, telephone polls, and ummmm........what else? To be dead honest, Mike, I am not surprised that shot hardly got any views, compared to some of your other more viewed pictures.. There is no interest in that shot. If I could make one rule of thumb for railway photography it would be this: Just because it is not a very common locomotive, or a rare one, DOES NOT make the picture more interesting. Mike, since you seem to have such a difficult time being proved wrong, or completely absorbing the information to make a logical conclusion out of it, I will go very in depth, and put it in Mike B. terms....when taking pictures, in this case of railroads and their good power, make sure you are in a good area, AND IN A GOOD ANGLE!!! There is nothing more boring than looking at the rarer power, and don't get me wrong, I love rare power, in a terrible angle, with a terrible backround, with a tiny bit of snow on the ground. And, if you ever some across a situation like this, MAKE SOMETHING INTERESTING OUT OF IT!! Don't just do what you, Mike, have don in almost all of your other rare power shots, and just take on a variation of the wedgie, which I have now decided should be called a
wedge-b. You seem to think that just because you have a GP30C, you can ONLY have it in wedge-b form. No. No no no. No. For the sake of hell, MAKE IT AN INTERESTING ANGLE. Try something different, maybe put the camera on the rail, or at least do something. Depending on the situation (i.e weather, area, engineer crankiness, ground covering), tweak your angle, color mode (i.e Sepia and BW) and overall compostition to make a more interesting shot. Change what you think while fanning, and, if you know whats coming through, like you seem to magically know, Mike, try imagining an interesting angle. And, even better yet, plan ahead. Do you know where you will ultimately begin, and by begin, I mean are you planning on chasing it? If you are, plan ahead your location, or at least your starting location. If, however, you are going to another state or unfamiliar area, LEARN. Learn about your destination, and I don't mean the best pizza place. I mean where can you get the 1.) Best 2.) Most Colorful 3.) Most interesting 4.)*Rarest* 5.) Most Comfortable pictures. It will alwyas be best to do this! Debating between the place by the library and the yard? Well, consider those 4 or 5 elements I listed earlier and, you should be able to soon enough figure out where to go. Even if youre debating between the two, decide which has the more elements, or the more element that conform to your needs, or desires, in a shot. For example, if the place by the library, which will be place a herein, is colorful, interesting, and comfortable, meanwhile the yard is rare, it is up to you to decide, but whichever choice you make, always make sure you somehow make your shot better than the rest of them, make it more powerful, make it lure the viewers in, make them decide they love it, love it right from the begiining, make them decide to jump right to this one thumbnail, this one image. Define the whole website, if you get really into it......never know, your pic could replace the LaGrange one at the top page. But, Mike, with that attitude, yours won't, cause front page power=big power.
Wow, that has to be the biggest paragraph I have ever seen!

In all seriousness, I agree that the power should not have any effect on the appeal of the photo. No photo is made any better or any worse simply because of the power, unless of course it is a 3/4 tree tunnel wedge shot with no interesting background.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:18 AM   #60
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Look, enough of you are old enough that you remember them delivering SD45s. Well, guess, what, after dozens of years of all of us complaining about those units, they're now pretty much gone.

I very well remember meeting a railfan when I was 16, and telling him that I didn't shoot Jersey Arrows. He said he didn't shoot P5s and MP54s when he was a kid, and now he regretted it terribly (the Jersey Arrows I wasn't shooting have since been scrapped too).

That being said... this is a hobby... shoot what you want. Don't let anyone tell you what you should shoot.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
I'm terribly sorry to disappoint you, but the feeling is mutual. Your most recent photos are good, although somewhat repetitive, but after the first couple of pages it gets quite boring and questionable.
Predictable reply. The only difference is, he doesn't share your same "standards," so a comparison does not apply.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:19 AM   #62
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Dang it, Jim, we're going to need more popcorn.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:20 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Freericks
That being said... this is a hobby... shoot what you want. Don't let anyone tell you what you should shoot.
Words to live by...

I shoot everything.. I shoot crap, I shoot decent, but I shoot everything. I'm not going to be the one whose kicking myself for not taking photos of something thats long since forgotten. Every unit we groan and moan over today, will be gone eventually. If you're old enough to remember whining over another matched ABBA lashup of F's on a fast freight, you'd probably step over a family members grave to get the chance to shoot them again.

Finally. If you're gonna tear into someone's *** about their shots, without trying to be constructive, you'd better be packing more than a few pages of typical material.

GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY!

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Old 06-07-2008, 03:25 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by John Ryan
Dang it, Jim, we're going to need more popcorn.
I'm not Jim, but I come bearing a gift



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Old 06-07-2008, 03:32 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
I'm not Jim, but I come bearing a gift



Loyd L.

LMAO!!!!
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:43 AM   #66
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I'm not Jim, but I come bearing a gift



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That's weak, Loyd. If you're going to bring it...BRING IT!!





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Old 06-07-2008, 05:55 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by River Rails Photography
Hmmmmm......Well, whats so bad with shooting a Dash 9 or GEVO? Just because they are so common? Mike, you are a 'top of the page' guy, and I was definitely expecting this from you.... just so you could say something against something, against everyone elses practices, against the norm...sure they get tiring, but what difference does it make? You, Mike, are the only one I have ever heard say that, and 12 years from now, if diesel is still around, we will all look back, and think of Dash-9's like we do of, say, your 'good power', and when you do get some GEVO's, or Dash 9's, your shots are better, beacuse looking at a page full of SD40-2's is no more exciting than AC44OW's.
...
Define the whole website, if you get really into it......never know, your pic could replace the LaGrange one at the top page. But, Mike, with that attitude, yours won't, cause front page power=big power.
So...what you're saying is that I should be more creative, is that right? Did I say something in the past to make go off like this?

Let me just say that what I have on RP isn't a true 100% representation of what photos I shoot. I do shoot sunny wedgies, but that's simply because that's what I like most. I also shoot a lot of evening, low light photos (like the one in Summit, SD), glint shots and night shots. I've been becoming slightly more creative with how I shoot lately (TCWR 2008 is an example), but I'll always enjoy a nice looking wedgie. The really artsy stuff generally doesn't interest me.

I just shoot what interest me most, and that is older EMD power and sunny weather. How can you blame me for shooting what I like? Isn't that what you do?

Don't fall on your own sword...

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Old 06-07-2008, 06:46 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
Mike(s), come to a charter, with me, Pete, John, ANDREW, and prove to me (us) that we will all get the same shots.
Is that offer open to anyone and in 2010? :d


Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMR159
Bingo! I like being out doing my own thing, not worrying about crowds of railfans getting in my way and slowing down my chase. Last time I chased a special of sorts, I damn near missed it thanks to several older railfans who insisted on pacing the train at a nice, easy 30 MPH in a 55...the crowds are a pain in the ass too.
I agree. Two or three people is just the right number for a good rail photography trip. Chasing the ARHS Carnival of Flowers Steam Train from Brisbane to Toowoomba in September is a right royal pain in the ass because every man and his dog is out chasing the train. Collectively they ruin every single photo by standing in front of the locomotive 110% of the time and drive well under the speed limit. I'm glad 'foamers' are the same the world over! Stand in the photo line people; that way every one will get a decent shot!

The ARHS Train Manager is an absolute ... He is rude to passengers onboard the train and makes life difficult for motorcaders. Not only that, he demands that rail enthusiasts who chase the train make a donation or they'll be reported to Train Control for trespassing or whatever he can make stick. Unfortunately, the ARHS do not a suitable alternative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
Well, that was disappointing. For someone who is as outspoken as yourself I was expecting a bit more than that.
OUCH! That hurt!!! I don't mind a good three-quarter wedge shot myself.

Take a look:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=3350


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
So...what you're saying is that I should be more creative, is that right? Did I say something in the past to make go off like this?

Let me just say that what I have on RP isn't a true 100% representation of what photos I shoot. I do shoot sunny wedgies, but that's simply because that's what I like most. I also shoot a lot of evening, low light photos (like the one in Summit, SD), glint shots and night shots. I've been becoming slightly more creative with how I shoot lately (TCWR 2008 is an example), but I'll always enjoy a nice looking wedgie. The really artsy stuff generally doesn't interest me.

I just shoot what interest me most, and that is older EMD power and sunny weather. How can you blame me for shooting what I like? Isn't that what you do?
I too like three-quarter wedge shots. It is fantastic that you're trying to be more creative ... I am too!
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:16 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by River Rails Photography
But some other ones are just.......blah....yep, like your,ahhh, dirty snow, telephone polls, and ummmm........what else? To be dead honest, Mike, I am not surprised that shot hardly got any view
Is 582 a low number of views for a USA photo? I would be happy if most of my Australian shots got that many!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ
The ARHS Train Manager is an absolute ... He is rude to passengers onboard the train and makes life difficult for motorcaders. Not only that, he demands that rail enthusiasts who chase the train make a donation or they'll be reported to Train Control for trespassing or whatever he can make stick
I have heard about him - does he actually report people? It is a bit hard to call that a "donation" when he tries to make it sound mandatory - more like a threat or bribe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ
I don't mind a good three-quarter wedge shot myself.
If one is to incorporate some decent scenery or a curve into a wedgie then they can look quite good! I would agree that the 'average' wedge shot of a common train on a straight section of track with little scenery can be boring.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:18 PM   #70
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I don't understand the need for railfans to tell other railfans how to shoot and to imply they're doing it wrong. I don't mean giving advice, esp. when asked for, but I do mean when people make stupid implications that they shouldn't shoot DPUs or engines with FREDs and that they shouldn't shoot wedgies or shuold shoot GEVOs.

Understood less is why people spend so much time on message boards fussing at one another in the steam charters versus diesel freights debate or any other such debate. The clear implication is always that one person is just wrong while the other is right. That's just plain silly. To each their own. Let them shoot how they want to.

Now with that said, when I first got into this hobby, I didn't like shooting NS. CSX was interesting then with all kinds of leasors and foreign power in these parts. But NS was almost always nothing but Black Oil, as I called it, a reference to the alien life form on "The X Files" that took over people's bodies, killed them and then made them do bad things.

Of course, later I realized some of those black lash-ups I was passing by had engine types that were quickly vanishing, most notably high high B23-7s and even still a few U-boats, possibly. So, yay, I got every lease engine HLCX had. Great. But I got two quick grab shots of Dash 7s with high hoods leading. That's why I don't care what's on lead now. I shoot it if I have a change, watch it roll by if I don't.


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Old 06-07-2008, 12:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bigiron


I don't feel that screeners have a checklist that has to be complied to but do feel there are certain hurdles that stand in the way of a photo getting a longer look and "foreground clutter" and "bad angle" seem to be key areas that the screeners look at besides all the technical areas. Having seen shots get rejected with a little brush, clump of grass or other natural objects that might be covering a small portion of the running gear seem minute compared to the shot I brought up and it opened my eyes as to how little of a train one could have in the picture and get consideration. I guess it wasn't so much how little but the fact that so much of each area seem to have incomplete views (smoke cut off, cars boxed in by the fence, running gear chopped....) to have all these in a photo that yes did have raindrops in view was revealing to see what got a nod.


Well, Rich, whats wrong with Andrew getting a little creative? The fence, for me, adds interest, and is a major set aside from the usual train only, all interest in the backround. It says, 'hey, I'm a fence, but I can add interest to your shot'. Now, Rich, consider this. It's a train, and thats the whole point. It's not foreground clutter, the fence, because it is leading you through the whole picture. I know on another forum, about your favorite of others work, one member said how he like shots where the train is almost an afterthought, and that is the whole point, of this picture of Andrews. And, as for your rejection, chances are the picture was underexposed, and that they were'nt just saying that or trying to make it so that Andrew shot only got in.


Quote:
..........I guess it wasn't so much how little but the fact that so much of each area seem to have incomplete views (smoke cut off, cars boxed in by the fence, running gear chopped....)....
Whats so bad with having the smoke cut off? Or the cars being boxed? I find that good framing. And, if Andrew was to want to get all the smoke in, cnaces are it'd just be another steam shot. Besides, what do you need to see the rest of the smoke for? The chopped running gear makes no difference at all either.....lol. Anyways, you seem to think that those "flaws" were over looked, but instead it creates a different shot, a shot that is perhaps more interesting than some of the other steam shots on here? So, what I mean, is that they are not overlooked, but they are instead added elements of interest....right?



Quote:
get part of a train and a pair of woman's legs and watch the hits come my way .

Mmmmm.......I see you DO know how to add a few 'tasty' extras.....

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Old 06-07-2008, 12:42 PM   #72
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wow, second time I lectured on the SAME thread.

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Old 06-07-2008, 01:15 PM   #73
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I prefer the randomness of just going out and shooting whatever comes by. The unknown is part of the enjoyment of railfanning, IMHO.
Same here... It may just be my solitary nature, but I prefer places in which there are no others. I mean what's the point in having 4, 5 or even more persons taking pictures of the same train?

I prefer being alone... Just my two cents
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:15 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigiron
I don't feel that screeners have a checklist that has to be complied to but do feel there are certain hurdles that stand in the way of a photo getting a longer look and "foreground clutter" and "bad angle" seem to be key areas that the screeners look at besides all the technical areas. Having seen shots get rejected with a little brush, clump of grass or other natural objects that might be covering a small portion of the running gear seem minute compared to the shot I brought up and it opened my eyes as to how little of a train one could have in the picture and get consideration.

I guess it wasn't so much how little but the fact that so much of each area seem to have incomplete views (smoke cut off, cars boxed in by the fence, running gear chopped....) to have all these in a photo that yes did have raindrops in view was revealing to see what got a nod.
Once again, each case is different. In the photos you mention about grass or a natural object blocking a small portion of the engine, it is probably a photo where the train is the main focus of the image and that minute amount of clutter has a big impact on the photo as a whole. Does it always get rejected? No. Is it more likely to get rejected if it is a Dash-9 on a mainline rather than a steam engine or shortline? Absolutely. There is quite a bit of the train visible in my photo, the whole locomotive (front to back) and the boxcar is broken up smoothly meaning the words on the car frame the fence post. The train isn't unnaturally cutoff at the back but rather runs behind the trees making that aspect more appealing. The smoke is hardly cutoff, some of it is not visible but you can clearly see where its coming from and where it end. Had I put the fence just above the smokestack, blocking part of it, or blocking the top of the plume, I doubt I would have even taken a second look at the photo. There are plenty of photos in the DB where the train is tiny in the photo and this is just another form of that style.

Quote:
It is refreshing to see that "out of the box' and "pushing the envelope" type of photos on the RP db and you have shared many great shots on that theme. I would say that while many are trying that approach, many are reluctant too with rejections that don't seem to make sense (while I'll agree most of the time the screeners are correct ) on shots they submit or ones they've seen in the forum.
Rejections are unavoidable if you cannot convey the message you want to the screener which is bound to happen when someone starts shooting more creative images. I may have a handful of creative shots on RP but I can assure you for every one that is on now I've had 10-15 rejected in the past when I was learning what works and what doesn't work. I don't mean what works in terms of what is acceptable on RP but in photography in general.
Quote:
I can speak from experience when I first became a member that besides the regular shots, I had submitted shots that weren't the norm such as a dozen or so similar to my avitar and the rejections weren't for the quality but for things around "no interest or material they wish not to add to the db" which struck me as odd. Like you did, I had several comments and views from photographers which compelled me to scan the slides and then process to upload. I know that after trying a good amount and getting the same dose of rejections the incentive to share some of my experiences became tainted. Time changes and so does what a screener may accept and as a a result some of the shots could be resubmitted if time permitted, which is highly unlikely soon.
While I've never seen those 10-15 shots personally, I cannot agree or disagree with what the screener said about them. I had to look back to see your avatar and I like it although finding a subject is a little harder but thats in the small 150x150 version. I can understand frustration with older photos not getting into the DB but persistance is important in present day photography. I'm sorry you feel that way about sharing your work with us here but I alone can't change your mind.

Quote:
While persistance usually pays off for the hard workers, sometimes the screeners seem to have a reason/rejection that is incorrect and at that point, IMO appeals usually end up not changing the outcome. One series pictures I have submitted from the Cog on Mt Washington had that fate. Most familiar with the weather on the mountain and the area know it is home to some of the wildest weather on earth and having climbed the mountain in all seasons I've been part of some wild events and the photos I took of the Cog this day were after a rain shower had coated the rocks, then a fog was created with the sun playing games and to make a long story short the rejection I got on the train photos was wrong exposure after having some pictures made to give to fellow hikers as it portrayed the event/day so well! It was explained in an appeal for the same results and I still get baffled thinking it was denied for a reason that didn't make sense , like others do today. This may have gone off in a tangent but I think it's ok considering the thread I started has half the posts dealing with charters... .
I don't recall those shots so I can't speak for you or the screener in this case although I'm with you 100% that rejections lately have been incorrect. It seems to have gotten better in the last month or so, but if you look back through the forums from earlier this year there were a lot of ???s about why photos were rejected. I hadn't screened in a while and when I went back to the 'controls' I typed a lot of comments back to photographers regarding what needed to be cropped, etc. It says that photos may sit on the queue for 24-48 which may seem harsh but I think more personal screening would be better than generic terms that are secondary for a photo not 'working'.

Quote:
I'm a big fan of having all types of weather being included in the db as trains run in that very same conditions and using nature in the train shots just adds to the interest. Now I know if it rains on a train trip to find a meadow, fence and mix it up a bit, maybe catch a train or if I really want a standout shot, get part of a train and a pair of woman's legs and watch the hits come my way.

Thanks all, Rich
The underlined phrase was what I was going for here. If one person will remember my photo and attempt to take their shot to the next creative level, I've accomplished my 'goal'. Does it mean every shot of a train, fence and grass will work? Nope, it needs to be done in a way that works which is subjective but is easily done through thought out framing within the frame. I'm still working on the latter shot.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:35 PM   #75
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Can someone please explain to me how this shot...

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


...is any different from this one...

Image © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
PhotoID: 237986
Photograph © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)


...yet I haven't heard a single peep from anyone about it?

-Christian S.

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