Old 06-05-2008, 10:47 PM   #26
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To me the shot is missing some thing? I see what he wanted to do in my eye. but think the fence eats to much space in the shot, Maybe just a bit to far back from it making to large. B&W may have made it better? there is no right and wrong here it is just a madder of taste, and that what bugs me most about pushing it to the Edge and it gets rejected. One thing i try to do or get in my shots is side light ( half dark noses ) to add contrast and depth. but most the time they don't make it in LOL guess im on the fence with this one
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
To Mike and Mike,

Mike(s), come to a charter, with me, Pete, John, ANDREW, and prove to me (us) that we will all get the same shots.

Look at Andrew's creativity with the PM#1225 (Night Barn, Speed Blur), look at John West capturing the scene as if it was taken with Kodachome 25 in 1940, then look at Michael Allen's backlit images - or Pete catching a GG1 IN A MUSEUM that looks like the real deal - a shot NO ONE managed to capture as uniquely.

And secondary - a lot of us missed the steam era - this is a great way, if not the only way to (re)live it and experience it.

Try it.

/Mitch
If I'm one of the Mike's you're talking to, I already have been on a Lerro charter earlier this year with the 261. It was enjoyable at times, but I would still prefer to chase a real train with a rare consist and be one of the few (maybe even the only) person to shoot it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
If I'm one of the Mike's you're talking to, I already have been on a Lerro charter earlier this year with the 261. It was enjoyable at times, but I would still prefer to chase a real train with a rare consist and be one of the few (maybe even the only) person to shoot it.
I hear you on that one! Despite my presence at almost every major steam-related and some diesel-related events, I would much rather chase a deadhead move that only a select few people know about as was the case with the test run of RBMN 425 last December and the ferry moves of the 142 to PA and back. Big crowds, despite my ability to get different shots, seem like a competition which is why I opted to head to the Arcade & Attica rather than deal with a crowd in Kentucky.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:34 PM   #29
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I prefer the randomness of just going out and shooting whatever comes by. The unknown is part of the enjoyment of railfanning, IMHO. That said, I've chased CP 2816 when it was in Ontario both times and I chased CP's original RCP F units and the 3084 when they were here, including the RCP's rare mileage run on the Havelock Sub and stood in rather deep photo lines. I would also do it again given the opportunity.

Not sure why anyone is getting their back up. I said charters were like shooting fish in a barrel (which they are, no question, run-by made to order), I didn't say you couldn't get creative or get away from the crowd. I guess trying to get the shot that nobody else does, seeing the opportunity where nobody else does, that is where the enjoyment/creativity would be.

As an aside, my favorite local subject is all about shooting fish in a barrel, a 10mph CP branchline train. Nothing wrong doing that, but it is what it is.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:32 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
If I'm one of the Mike's you're talking to, I already have been on a Lerro charter earlier this year with the 261. It was enjoyable at times, but I would still prefer to chase a real train with a rare consist and be one of the few (maybe even the only) person to shoot it.
Bingo! I like being out doing my own thing, not worrying about crowds of railfans getting in my way and slowing down my chase. Last time I chased a special of sorts, I damn near missed it thanks to several older railfans who insisted on pacing the train at a nice, easy 30 MPH in a 55...the crowds are a pain in the ass too.

And hence why you didn't see me down for the first run of the Arcade & Attica...later on this summer, after the hype has died down (and the sun gets a bit lower in the sky), I'll head out to shoot it. Though I really don't like staged events or special runs that don't portray how the railroad is 95% of the time, the A&A IS a steam-based, passenger hauling railroad. However, on this basis, I skipped out the three weeks Thomas was up here on the Falls Road Railroad...
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:45 AM   #31
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Default Addressing Part B of this thread - steam charters

Hi Mike B, if that is your real last name.
: )

I was on that charter, as was Andrew and a few other RP members. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to get an introduction.

You may, possibly, have disproved your own conjection by stating you were there yet have posted no images. If you did, please link them - I'm having a hard time finding your pictures since I do not know where to look (Under photographers, there's no MikeB).

So - did you "catch" anything in the lake stocked for your enjoyment? Did you take the standard wedges from the photoline or did you get lucky with a good pace, a surprise backlit scene? Maybe you were standing next to Andrew on the other side of the tracks and "caught some luck"?

Glad you enjoyed the charter - the weather made it quite a challenge. I imaging when Michael Allen, Pete and Andrew get around to posting you will see some amazing fish that eluded quite a few of us.

As for steam in general - like you said, there were some good times to be had but sadley, that line ended up being put on a speed restriction only weeks before our arrival limiting speeds (and the excitement of steam). If you have not yet, maybe you have, but get out to an excursion, or future charter where steam is at it's best - on the main, at 70+ mph.

/Mitch

BTW - I can appreciate the aspect of pride shooting a scene open to the world and without any prearranged odds which yeilds a photo unique to yourself. Look at Andrew's top 3 NS pics. But a charter is far from a stocked lake.

Last edited by Mgoldman; 06-06-2008 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
Hi Mike B, if that is your real last name.
: )

I was on that charter, as was Andrew and a few other RP members. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to get an introduction.

You may, possibly, have disproved your own conjection by stating you were there yet have posted no images. If you did, please link them - I'm having a hard time finding your pictures since I do not know where to look (Under photographers, there's no MikeB).

So - did you "catch" anything in the lake stocked for your enjoyment? Did you take the standard wedges from the photoline or did you get lucky with a good pace, a surprise backlit scene? Maybe you were standing next to Andrew on the other side of the tracks and "caught some luck"?

Glad you enjoyed the charter - the weather made it quite a challenge. I imaging when Michael Allen, Pete and Andrew get around to posting you will see some amazing fish that eluded quite a few of us.

As for steam in general - like you said, there were some good times to be had but sadley, that line ended up being put on a speed restriction only weeks before our arrival limiting speeds (and the excitement of steam). If you have not yet, maybe you have, but get out to an excursion, or future charter where steam is at it's best - on the main, at 70+ mph.

/Mitch

BTW - I can appreciate the aspect of pride shooting a scene open to the world and without any prearranged odds which yeilds a photo unique to yourself. Look at Andrew's top 3 NS pics. But a charter is far from a stocked lake.
You can find my RP photos here: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=18181 -If the link doesn't work just look for Mike Bargmann.

I haven't put any of the photos from that charter here on RP. I'm putting the finishing touches on an article I'm working on and I haven't chosen a 261 photo for it yet. So, until I finally do chose one, I won't be posting any for the public. Also, if I did submit a shot now, it would just get lost in the sea of 261 shots being submitted lately. However, if you're looking for some proof that I was actually on the charter, I guess I could send you a photo or two.

Did I get what I wanted? Well, sort of. I had one shot that I wanted over everything else and I managed to get it in sun on Friday but unfortunately just minutes before the train arrived Steve G., Jeff Terry and a few others arrived. There were also a couple of places west of Glencoe that I wanted (Stewart and the barn/silo shot). Those two places were of course chosen for runbys so I did get the shot, but so did everyone else. I tried to stray away from the photo lines when possible.

The weather certainly was a challenge but steam works better in rain and clouds than diesel so not all was lost. I wasn't able to join everyone on Sunday which of course had the best weather. I've broken plans in the past with my Mother to shoot trains, so I figured unless I wanted to get my butt in trouble I would spend the day with her. Oh well...

I've seen steam go 60+mph before and it certainly was cool, but not amazing. I most likely will never go on a charter again, especially for hundreds of dollars a day. I got to go on the 261 charter for free (the TCW requested that I be there) and I would rather spend that money on a few trips and shoot things I'm really interested in (EMD).

A photo charter may not be like shooting fish in a barrel as there are still many elements out of your control, but it's as close as you'll ever get unless you own a railroad yourself.

Last edited by Mike B.; 06-06-2008 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I would rather spend that money on a few trips and shoot things I'm really interested in (EMD)
Everyday Modern Diesel?

: )

(Couldn't resist... Put a diesel in the right surroundings, I'll shoot it).

/Mitch
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:42 AM   #34
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I like diesels too.....but they have to be older than me ....which is to say built before 1957.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
Everyday Modern Diesel?

: )

(Couldn't resist... Put a diesel in the right surroundings, I'll shoot it).

/Mitch

The farther away from modern the better, except for steam.
About a month ago I shot what is probably the oldest locomotive in service a GN branch line in MN and SD. It was 10x better then the 261!

I really don't enjoying going out and just shooting whatever shows up. There just aren't enough good trains, some would say I'm very picky in what I shoot. The only time I'll shoot GEVOs or Dash 9s is when I'm waiting for something else. I'm privileged in that I have access to a lot of real-time information so I only go out when something is running that I want. I don't know how I would railfan without that information, actually, I probably wouldn't.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
The farther away from modern the better, except for steam.
About a month ago I shot what is probably the oldest locomotive in service a GN branch line in MN and SD. It was 10x better then the 261!

I really don't enjoying going out and just shooting whatever shows up. There just aren't enough good trains, some would say I'm very picky in what I shoot. The only time I'll shoot GEVOs or Dash 9s is when I'm waiting for something else. I'm privileged in that I have access to a lot of real-time information so I only go out when something is running that I want. I don't know how I would railfan without that information, actually, I probably wouldn't.
I don't mean to come across as confrontational, but man, what a simpleton perspective you have on railfanning. You only go out when something good is coming, so you can what, shoot a power wedgie?

I get alot of heads up too, but seeing something rare is just icing on the cake, my primary goal is to get (or at least try to) an interesting angle, regardless of the power. There are tons of people just like you around and frankly, I find their work boring and uninspired.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:35 PM   #37
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John, have you reached your breaking point?
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:41 PM   #38
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Andrew if were screening your shot I would have rejected it for distracting background object but as I'm not a screener I'll just sit on the fence for this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamra159
Last time I chased a special of sorts, I damn near missed it thanks to several older railfans who insisted on pacing the train at a nice, easy 30 MPH in a 55
Chances are that was Mitch holding you up with one of his all time great pace shots.

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Old 06-06-2008, 02:03 PM   #39
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"Distracting background object" LOL Christine! Good one!
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switched out
Andrew if were screening your shot I would have rejected it for distracting background object but as I'm not a screener I'll just sit on the fence for this one.

I can't help it, I have to chime in I think it would need to be rejected for "Poor Lighting (High Sun): The angle of the sunlight is too high, a common problem in the summer months of year on mid-day shots" since my 6:00 pm shot just got rejected for that reason, why not... move over cause I'll just sit on the fence for this one too, got any popcorn?
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:32 PM   #41
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:17 PM   #42
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I will add one thing: photography, like most or all activities, is something one gets better at with practice. OK, I've only been on one charter, but on that occasion, being able to try shot after shot on multiple runbys of the same scene, then look at those shots at home and think about how the day transpired, was invaluable.

As was subsequently looking at what everyone else did from the same general location at the same time, because those shots were then uploaded to RP. In a way, I looked through their cameras while they were shooting.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
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Well, that was disappointing. For someone who is as outspoken as yourself I was expecting a bit more than that.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:32 PM   #44
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Well, that was disappointing. For someone who is as outspoken as yourself I was expecting a bit more than that.
Shocking, isn't it.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:50 PM   #45
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Default I defiantly agree..... I think.

Actually, I'm not able to form a complete opinion on AB(2)'s shot because of this crappy monitor. I'll have to look at it at work tomorrow. I can't decide if it fits my idea of what an RP shot should be. It might be, in my opinion, a great Flickr shot or one for Andrew's web site when he gets it up.

But what interested me was the title of this thread, "This shot defies RP's photo standards." Mostly, it was the word defies. Now the original poster meant the shot didn't belong on RP, but the thread title actually fits Andrew and others to a T.

Look at the Dictionary.com definition of the word.

Quote:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This de·fy Audio Help (dĭ-fī') Pronunciation Key
tr.v. de·fied, de·fy·ing, de·fies

To oppose or resist with boldness and assurance: defied the blockade by sailing straight through it.
To refuse to submit to or cooperate with: defied the court order by leaving the country.
To be unaffected by; resist or withstand: "So the plague defied all medicines" (Daniel Defoe).
To challenge or dare (someone) to do something: She defied her accusers to prove their charges.
I wish I had more "defiant" pictures in the database. Anyone can shoot a wedgie. I should know. I shoot my fair share. But what I like abuot Andrew is that sometimes his shots are so far outside the box, I doubt he could even describe the box for you if he had to.

(The title of my thread is a wink and a nod at all the people who spell defiantly when they actually mean definitely.)


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Old 06-06-2008, 06:02 PM   #46
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:22 PM   #47
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John, have you reached your breaking point?

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Old 06-06-2008, 06:36 PM   #48
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Wrong John.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #49
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Quote:
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Wrong John.
It always helps to have a number associated with your name!
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:02 PM   #50
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Wrong John.

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