Old 02-26-2007, 11:23 PM   #76
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Well I'm back,lol. You see I wasn't able to respond to this thread or any thread on the forum since the day after I started this one and been trying from many angles. Let me see if I can remember what I was going to write seeing this thread has gone wild and a bit off track from the original subject.

First off, Daniel I hate to tell you but guess what type of card I had problems with? It sure wasn't the way to go for me, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwrails
I've been using Sandisk cards for years never have had any problems. I try to reformat them at least once a month and clean the contact points when ever needed.

Sandisk seems to be the way to go in my opinion. And no this wasn't a plug for Sandisk...

Daniel
I'll catch up on the most recent comments and get back, Rich
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:49 PM   #77
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Bill, it was the salesman at Ritz that told me this and I actually called him recently to have him refresh his reasoning. One was as a safety measure to avoid erasing pictures by mistake (although some of the data restoring software can actually get back data on formatted cards!). As for the rest it seems like he couldn't really give me a good reason why not to and even the camera book suggests to do it often, lol.

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Originally Posted by Bill
I echo Janusz's statements. I format after every shoot & use a card reader. Who told you not to format often & did they explain why?

Thanks,
Bill
As for reasons to format even if it's not that often, with time some of the memory space is lost with the deleting of photos and if not done you'll lose memory space.

Some key notes that were mentioned at the store as well as by several on this thread are to make sure the camera is OFF when inserting or taking out cards as to avoid any electrical damage. Formatting in the camera is the best way to go as it will be the correct format. Do not allow the battery to get too low as that could also damage the card as a card may become bad just by having 1-2 pictures corrupt from something.

One last note as for the memory cards and their speed. It's better to get the higher speed cards so your camera can perform at more optimum speeds as it's buffer gets full and could slow shots if the card is too slow.

Rich Clark
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Old 02-27-2007, 02:04 AM   #78
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"As for reasons to format even if it's not that often, with time some of the memory space is lost with the deleting of photos and if not done you'll lose memory space."
loss of memory space is minimal, as is the loss of time due to file fragmentation. the real loss is the time it takes to re-format..
I am anything but an expert on computers, but there are some areas that I have become quite knowlegable on, and those areas have shown me over the years to never never rely on a salesman... I doubt if ritz salesman are any more knowledgeable than RS salesman, and on those guys, I could rant forever... GBG...
If re-formatting makes you happy, the reasons not to are also minimal, so enjoy... Frankly Scarlett, either way...
Big Iron,: photo of cog@Pikes?? seems kinda rocky fer NH.. Ed
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:28 AM   #79
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Lordy...

As for RAW, I can't get my PSCS2 to work w/ them (even though its suppose to). My friend shoots in RAW. I borrowed his camera once and tried to deal with the RAWs. I know RAW gives you more ability to process them on a big ol CPU w/ lots of settings, but it was just such a pain. One can't view RAWs w/o the PowerToy for Windows XP. So RAWs just become a bit more of a hassle to deal with over JPEGs.

RAW's seem to be about 8mb a pop off a Canon 20D, full quality. Thats a bit bigger than my 3mb, but on my Seagate 250GB HDD (only $75 off Newegg.com) I can fit WAY too many pics on there for my own good. Its dangerous having that much storage space for two reasons. Out of control shooting and in the event of an HDD failure, you're really f**ked. I back up pics on 2 physically different hard drives, and I advise others to do so as well. On my next computer, I'm going to create a RAID-1 array for photo storage. Its cheaper to get two 250 GB HDD's than to have data recovered off of one failed one.

Never really thought about all my eggs in a basket in regards to a memory card failure. I always have my laptop with me while railfanning (even the 4-day camping trips), so it gives me a 72GB dumping space.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Hmmm...I've read that sentence a few times and I still don't see a reason WHY you feel that way about a piece of electronics that is NOT affected by the way it sits.

Is your answer hidden in code in there somewhere? Am I overlooking it? Please try again...I believe I missed it.




As opposed to...?
It just seems improper to leave a camera sitting on its side. I'm sure nothing will get harmed, but if there isn't a need to do it, I don't see a reason to do it. With as much money as we spend on cameras I'm OK with being anal about it and I try to take as good of care of it as I can.
I'm sorry if you thought I implied there is something wrong with leaving a camera to sit on its side, that's not what I meant. All I was saying is that I wouldn't do it, that's it. I wasn't saying anyone is wrong by doing it, just how I felt about it.

Are we done yet?
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:56 AM   #81
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Hi Ed,

Actually that is a shot of the Mt Washington Cog RR . Remember we are "The Granite State" and most of the Presidential Range has tops similiar to this once you get above treeline. I used to hike the White Mtns on a regular basis and shot this back in the slide days when I took my wife on a nice sooty ride of the cog, hehe. I even submitted a shot similiar to this on this site early on (when I was in the green learning stage and still learning) and may in time rescan some slides and try again. The higher alititude haze seemed to make the picture look off but in reality it something natural about the conditions at the time.
...
"Big Iron,: photo of cog@Pikes?? seems kinda rocky fer NH.. Ed"

Rich

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Old 02-27-2007, 12:30 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
It just seems improper to leave a camera sitting on its side. I'm sure nothing will get harmed, but if there isn't a need to do it, I don't see a reason to do it. With as much money as we spend on cameras I'm OK with being anal about it and I try to take as good of care of it as I can.
Look, all I wanted to know is why you felt something was wrong with it. It was as simple as that.

Quote:
I'm sorry if you thought...
Don't put the blame on me (or anyone else) for misunderstanding you.


Quote:
...I implied there is something wrong with leaving a camera to sit on its side, that's not what I meant.
But it's what you said. Say way you mean or don't say it at all.


Quote:
All I was saying is that I wouldn't do it, that's it. I wasn't saying anyone is wrong by doing it, just how I felt about it.
There you go again. You're contradicting yourself.

Quote:
Are we done yet?
Well, since you can't give any valid reason for why you personally think it's wrong to not have a camera sitting upright, 24/7/365, whether we are done with this conversation or not is up to you. Because as long as you keep eluding to there being something wrong with it, I'm going to keep asking you why you feel that way. And in this current reply, you again implied something is wrong with. I believe the term you used was "seems."
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:35 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I'm sorry if you thought I implied there is something wrong with leaving a camera to sit on its side, that's not what I meant. All I was saying is that I wouldn't do it, that's it. I wasn't saying anyone is wrong by doing it, just how I felt about it.
You got to admit that there was a strong impolication in the way you jumped in when Ween made his comment. Here's what you wrote --

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Do you always have your camera sitting in your bag on its side? I wouldn't do that.
You never actually said why you wouldn't do that and instead got defensive when people asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I'm not trying to make anyone do things the way I do, I have no reason to. Now that we're talking about how a camera sits in a bag, I'm just going to leave this thread because it has just become pathetic.
Have fun.
After you left this thread, you came back and remained flabbergasted --

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I can't believe why you're asking me why I keep my camera upright. In fact, that's such a stupid question, I'm not even going to answer that.
This thread is just stupid now.
But the reason the thread was still going on about how a camera sits in a bag is because you told Ween you would not do that and never answered why. I mean, really, what difference did it make? But you're the one that implied there was something wrong with sitting the camera in a bag in a certain way.

By the way, go back and read what Jim said. I think his "idiotic" comment meant your comments on how stupid this thread is and how you were getting flamed for an opinion when actualy you were being taken to task for not answering a question.


Joe
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Old 02-27-2007, 02:24 PM   #84
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Default Mt Washington Cog RR . Remember we are "The Granite State

yeh, brain slipped into neutral again... I remember photos of Pikes, and they were mostly gravel. I remember at the base of the NH Cog, I did not ride up, the 'lady' firing the engine was litterally covered with black, just two white eyes... also when driving toward that site, I remember thinking that there musta been a fire raging on the mountainside,only later did I realize that it was smoke from the choo choo.... Ed
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:22 PM   #85
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Default My 2 cents to this thread

first I use Scandisk Cf cards and they have worked well. Second my photo software is PSE4 and I back up my photos normally every other month via DVD two sets, one in a fire proof safe and a second in my file cabinet at work. I store my photos on two Maxtor 250GB drives when down loading. so far this has worked for me.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:26 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Carr
first I use Scandisk Cf cards and they have worked well. Second my photo software is PSE4 and I back up my photos normally every other month via DVD two sets, one in a fire proof safe and a second in my file cabinet at work. I store my photos on two Maxtor 250GB drives when down loading. so far this has worked for me.
That's a whole of backup! I don't blame you though, I too am looking into a fireproof safe to store my CD's. Question, how many files can you fit on a DVD compared to a reg. 700MB CD?
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:45 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
That's a whole of backup! I don't blame you though, I too am looking into a fireproof safe to store my CD's. Question, how many files can you fit on a DVD compared to a reg. 700MB CD?
I personally don't think that is a lot of backup! I do a pair of DVDs every quarter, stored offsite, and irregular backups to an external drive otherwise. I should go to monthly.

A DVD is nominally 4.7gb vs CD at 0.7gb (700mb). A bit less for both once you format.
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:57 PM   #88
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With the PSE4 backup software I only have to back up current photos not the whole two drives.
I'm in the process of now scanning my negatives and slides the majority is not rail related but the negatives date back over 30 years, I have been sorting through my collection and going in segments back in time. In between scanning family photos dating back to the early 1900's that I have no negative I'm using a Nikon Coolscan for negatives and slides and a Canon flatbed for the photos, scanning at 300dpi. this projects is a long way from finish but something I promised the family.
But back to the orginal question of to much back up it all depends on how important your images are to you. With so much riding on the scanning project and being a member of the City congintency's team I followed their idea of two locations DVD's are cheap and once you complete your first back up, which is time consuming you just have to keep it up. The fire safe was slightly expensive but it will keep items safe for over 45 minutes in a fire and my office location is reasonably safe. The odds of both locations being damaged at once are minimual.
Let's face it even some of your worse photos just can't go back and do them again so hence my double locations and time. I'm sure RP has a double back up system.
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:03 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC


Rod, you either miswrote or otherwise said something that is commonly stated or commonly stated unclearly, so let me clarify.



A JPG does not degrade. If one saves over a JPG, then yes the new copy is a slightly degraded version of the previous one each time. But if one simply opens the original file and processes it, but never ever saves back over it, instead saving to a new file, then the original file ALSO "remains and can forever be tinkered with."

J

You are of course correct, my error. It is when you make a copy of a JPEG that things fall over.
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:42 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
It just seems improper to leave a camera sitting on its side. I'm sure nothing will get harmed, but if there isn't a need to do it, I don't see a reason to do it. With as much money as we spend on cameras I'm OK with being anal about it and I try to take as good of care of it as I can.

Posted by JimThias
Look, all I wanted to know is why you felt something was wrong with it. It was as simple as that.
How did I not answer this question?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Don't put the blame on me (or anyone else) for misunderstanding you.
What is there not to understand? I don't know how I could have been any more clear, especially in my last post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
But it's what you said. Say way you mean or don't say it at all.
For the last time, I never said it. My comment did come across as implying there is something wrong with doing it, but I never outright said that it's a bad thing to do because that's not what I meant. I've told this several times now but you seem to know what I've said better than myself. In my last post I even said that there it won't hurt the camera. What more do you want?
All I said is that I wouldn't do it. It's simply a personal preference and I know of several people who feel the same way.
I'm sure there are a lot of things that I do that you wouldn't, does that mean they are wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
All I was saying is that I wouldn't do it, that's it. I wasn't saying anyone is wrong by doing it, just how I felt about it.

Posted by JimThias
There you go again. You're contradicting yourself.
So by someone choosing not to do something, that means it's wrong to do what that person has chosen not to do? I'm failing to understand your logic.

Yes, I am well aware that I said I was done with thread, but when I'm called a coward I feel that a reply in is order.
The real crappy part of all this is that I know if we were talking face to face, we would have understood each other very quickly. That's not a threat and I'm not alluding towards any type of bodily harm, but forums seem to magnify confusing and misunderstandings by 100x.

Did I pass?

Last edited by Mike B.; 02-28-2007 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:28 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
The real crappy part of all this is that I know if we were talking face to face, we would have understood each other very quickly. That's not a threat and I'm not alluding towards any type of bodily harm, but forums seem to magnify confusing and misunderstandings by 100x.
You are probably correct on that, as I most likely would have convinced you to get over this phobia of there being something wrong with not keeping your camera upright.

By the way, if camera bag manufacturers say it's ok to store your camera in many other positions than upright, doesn't that tell you something?

I would be REALLY satisfied if you could just give me ONE reason why you "wouldn't do it." Obviously you're afraid it'll damage your camera. What could POSSIBLY happen?
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:14 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
You are probably correct on that, as I most likely would have convinced you to get over this phobia of there being something wrong with not keeping your camera upright.

By the way, if camera bag manufacturers say it's ok to store your camera in many other positions than upright, doesn't that tell you something?

I would be REALLY satisfied if you could just give me ONE reason why you "wouldn't do it." Obviously you're afraid it'll damage your camera. What could POSSIBLY happen?
Again, it's simply a personal preference. If there isn't a need, I don't see a reason to store a camera on its side. It just seems improper to me and I've already admitted I'm a little anal with my camera. I spent a lot of money on it so I think I can be if I want.
Why is it weird to prefer to have things sit upright?
I've already twice, now three times, that I don't think anything will get hurt.
I don't know how to better explain it to you.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:00 PM   #93
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Cool

Well to put a stamp on this thread, I got the news I DIDN't want to get today. The lab couldn't recover a single shot of my 100 plus shots. They even waited for their new software from Lexar to see if that could retrieve some and it failed.

About 8 night scenes and 15+ day scenes all of which I did see through my camera after they were taken and again afterwards! The night shots were the ones that I was really anticipating submitting as they had a unique mix of the moon, stars and clouds along with the spot I was in. I guess it could've been worse as I did use 3 cards just in case one went bad but I'd trade that one for the other two, lol.

Hope others don't have this problem.

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Old 03-02-2007, 10:43 PM   #94
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Sorry to hear that, Rich. I hope I never run into your misfortune.
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #95
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Rich,

Just a thought, but I think you are probably better off not swapping cards in and out. You run the risk of removing a card with either the camera still switched on or the camera still writing to the card or inserting a card with the camera turned on. Any one of those three scenarios can corrupt your card. You may also be exposing your card and its contacts to moisture or dirt if you keep opening up the camera and swapping out the card.

I personally leave the card in the camera until it's full, or the day is over. I then download to an Epson P-2000 or the computer at that point. I leave the image review turned off on my camera. I review the image by pressing the button to turn it on, which means the camera is reading it off the card. If that's OK, it's unlikely there is anything wrong with the card at that point.

I know there is a difference of opinion regarding card sizes, but I use a 4 GIG card (Nikon D200), which means I don't have to change it out during a normal day of shooting. The camera gets opened up back in my room and the card goes straight to the card reader. When I have two confirmed copies, on two separate hard drives, the card goes back in the camera and is reformatted. Hard to lose a card if it never really leaves the camera.

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Old 03-03-2007, 08:28 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a231pacific
Rich,

Just a thought, but I think you are probably better off not swapping cards in and out. You run the risk of removing a card with either the camera still switched on or the camera still writing to the card or inserting a card with the camera turned on. Any one of those three scenarios can corrupt your card. You may also be exposing your card and its contacts to moisture or dirt if you keep opening up the camera and swapping out the card.


Michael Allen
Michael,

Thanks for the advice but to make it clear I'm not playing musical cards as for swapping them during the day (unless one is full). I have a 512k card and two 1 gigs. This trip I filled my 512 first and was on one of the 1 gig cards and when that got full I was using my last card as I finished my trip on a unscheduled 2nd day . When one card is full it stays in my car in the center console as I have a spot where it can't hide on me, lol. The only time my camera is opened outside the car or my home is when a card gets full.

As for going with a 4 gig card, that will likely not happen with me (2 gig the largest) as losing 4 times as many shots would be much worse than my situation now! I guess it's gonna happen if you take enough shots, my 30+ years of taking slides I did get some ruined at the lab and I should be able to shoot some again but not with the unusual conditions. Ah, it's just a good excuse to go on another trip if I can get the days off .

Rich Clark
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:30 AM   #97
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I guess what this thread boils down to is we will all at some time have at least one memory card fail on us, hopefully this will be after all the information has been retrieved from it.

In the mean time treat your memory cards with respect until all data as been retrieved from them.

  • Wait a few seconds after switching the camera off before removing the card this allows the voltages within the camera to die.
  • Buy a small memory card wallet to keep the cards in when they are not in use (keeps the dust and crap out)
  • Have some form of backup device to download the cards data at the end of the day if you are going to be on the road for some time.
And remember to have some fun while your out there.

Cheers,
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:32 AM   #98
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Rich,

Sorry to hear your shots are gone. I thought I'd gotten away from the damaged/lost slide problems by going digital, but I guess the lesson is, every medium has it's dangers.

A friend of mine recently had a similar experience, but he was able to rescue his shots with a program called PhotoRescue. There is a good article about the subject at http://www.naturescapes.net/092004/ej0904.htm Since he was shooting snow plows in Eastern Colorado during the January blizzard, we're pretty sure it was caused by snow getting into the camera and turning to water, thus shorting out the contacts.

Most recovery software works directly on the card. The naturescapes article recommends that you copy the contents of the damaged card onto your hard drive, using PhotoRescue. This way, you don't risk doing further damage to your images in the recovery process. My friend decided that the $29 for the program was money well spent!

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Old 03-04-2007, 10:36 AM   #99
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Rich,

Try Bad Copy Pro, it work for me when all others fail.

No risk, try their free evluation

http://www.jufsoft.com/badcopy/download.asp



Good Luck

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