Old 07-05-2009, 08:52 PM   #1
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Angry Backlighting - is it a non starter with the photoscreeners?

I attach 2 recent submissions both of which have been rejected by the screeners as unsuitable because of poor (?) lighting (backlit) -

- Poor lighting (Backlit): The image is backlit or doesn't feature enough light on the nose or visible sides of the subject.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1285697903

In the UK I believe I am right in saying that the use of back lighting is not uncommon particularly when trying to enhance the drama of a picture, this certainly applies in the case of the BNSF Dash 9's where the moulding on the landscape would not have been apparent if the light had been front 3/4.

and

- Bad Cropping: Most often this means that the composition of the photo is poor as it relates the cropping of the image.
- Poor lighting (Backlit): The image is backlit or doesn't feature enough light on the nose or visible sides of the subject.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1263816523

There is little to say about the Slovakian single unit railcar shot other than to say that it is pretty extreme for a screener to classify the lighting as backlit, the cropping is a bit more subjective but it was cropped in that manner to emphasise the diminutive nature of the subject and the run down nature of the Slovak station.


I wonder if forum members would like to comment on the relevance of the screeners comments. Has anyone else had the same experience and is it a waste of time submitting anything other than traditional front 3/4 lit, dusk, night, accident, train in landscape or roster shots because that is the impression I am currently getting?

Any constructive criticism/comments would be appreciated.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:57 PM   #2
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Has anyone else had the same experience and is it a waste of time submitting anything other than traditional front 3/4 lit, dusk, night, accident, train in landscape or roster shots because that is the impression I am currently getting?.
Are you suggesting that both of your rejections are "other than train in landscape" shots? Because, quite frankly, they are.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:57 PM   #3
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The screeners rejeced both of your photos for good and accurate reasons. There is absolutely no light on the nose of either of those images. No need to complain, as they're correct and you're wrong.

Shoot with the sun behind your back next time.

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Old 07-05-2009, 09:02 PM   #4
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The BNSF shot is a goood photograph as far as photographs go, but for RP, only more artistic backlit shots have a real chance here. The second shot is to centered and not much to look at, really.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
The screeners rejeced both of your photos for good and accurate reasons. There is absolutely no light on the nose of either of those images. No need to complain, as they're correct and you're wrong.

Shoot with the sun behind your back next time.

Chase
A interesting response, one assumes if you are at a location and the sun has gone round then you don't raise the camera, photography is basically about the use of light and the recording of same in all of its forms, a backlit image doesn't mean it's a bad image, although that appears to be the view on Railpictures.

Incidentally I wasn't asking if the screeners were right, I was asking if it was worth submitting backlit subjects and from the sounds of it it isn't!
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:23 PM   #6
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Are you suggesting that both of your rejections are "other than train in landscape" shots? Because, quite frankly, they are.
Sorry Jim beg to differ on that one, must agree the BNSF is 'in landscape' but I wouldn't classify the Slovak unit that way, to me that is almost a roster shot, every one to his own interpretation!
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Freighthoover View Post
A interesting response, one assumes if you are at a location and the sun has gone round then you don't raise the camera, photography is basically about the use of light and the recording of same in all of its forms, a backlit image doesn't mean it's a bad image, although that appears to be the view on Railpictures.

Incidentally I wasn't asking if the screeners were right, I was asking if it was worth submitting backlit subjects and from the sounds of it it isn't!
It's not that backlit images do not get accepted, the compositions just have to be petty unique. A glint image that is tastefully done will usually get accepted.

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Old 07-05-2009, 09:31 PM   #8
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It's not that backlit images do not get accepted, the compositions just have to be petty unique. A glint image that is tastefully done will usually get accepted.

Chase
Thanks for the comment about the glint will give it a try, but that is generally a pretty extreme form of backlighting.

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Old 07-05-2009, 09:37 PM   #9
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The BNSF shot is a goood photograph as far as photographs go, but for RP, only more artistic backlit shots have a real chance here. The second shot is to centered and not much to look at, really.
Thanks Joe, I think you have confirmed my suspicions, would agree with your comments about the second shot, but if it moves, it's pretty and it's cost you mega bucks to get there the tendency is to take it anyway even more so now in the days of digital.

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Old 07-05-2009, 09:49 PM   #10
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Sorry Jim beg to differ on that one, must agree the BNSF is 'in landscape' but I wouldn't classify the Slovak unit that way, to me that is almost a roster shot, every one to his own interpretation!
Well, in that case, I must include, "are you suggesting the Slovak unit shot is 'other than a roster shot' type of shot? Because, quite frankly, it is."

Basically, what I'm getting as is that in your first post you implied that the two shots you had rejected don't fall into the list you provided of the type of shots that you think are ONLY accepted here. Both of your shots fall into at least ONE of the categories you listed...both by your own admittance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freighthoover View Post
Has anyone else had the same experience and is it a waste of time submitting anything other than traditional front 3/4 lit, dusk, night, accident, train in landscape or roster shots because that is the impression I am currently getting?
That IS what you were implying with the bolded words in the above quote, right?

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Thanks Joe, I think you have confirmed my suspicions...
Just curious...what are your suspicions?
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:01 PM   #11
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It's not that backlit images do not get accepted, the compositions just have to be petty unique. A glint image that is tastefully done will usually get accepted.
I wasn't expecting to get this in, but was pleasantly surprised - little lighting on the nose and it isn't American!

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Old 07-05-2009, 10:13 PM   #12
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I have to agree with the replies the other members have offered. Typically backlit images are not accepted unless there is something that makes them really stand out amongst the rest. There are lots of backlit shots around the site, but they are there because they are exceptional in quality. I would also like to point out that the location for the first photo is incorrect. It is Park Moabi, not Moapa.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:20 PM   #13
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I wasn't expecting to get this in, but was pleasantly surprised - little lighting on the nose and it isn't American!
That's a good shot, Marcus! I've just recently started trying out some glint images. I submitted one and to my surprised, it was accepted.

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Old 07-05-2009, 11:42 PM   #14
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The screeners rejeced both of your photos for good and accurate reasons. There is absolutely no light on the nose of either of those images. No need to complain, as they're correct and you're wrong.

In defense of John, Chase, you have it a bit confused. RP does not like shots without light on the nose. True. But it isn't a matter of correct/wrong, it is a matter of RP preference (which the screener applied correctly here) versus photography. No nose light is not wrong, it is the RP preference as to what is acceptable.

This is a pet peeve of mind, if it were my site, which it certainly isn't!, I would allow a lot more of these sorts of shots. My preference. So I'm not worked up about it, it just is what it is.

So the screenrs are "right" but John is also "right" in objecting. But his shots aren't getting on.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:07 AM   #15
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Well, in that case, I must include, "are you suggesting the Slovak unit shot is 'other than a roster shot' type of shot? Because, quite frankly, it is."

Basically, what I'm getting as is that in your first post you implied that the two shots you had rejected don't fall into the list you provided of the type of shots that you think are ONLY accepted here. Both of your shots fall into at least ONE of the categories you listed...both by your own admittance.



That IS what you were implying with the bolded words in the above quote, right?

Just curious...what are your suspicions?
Call the 2 shots whatever Jim, at no stage did I say that they didn't come under my listing, my suspicions were that backlit shots (now re-qualified as non glint) shots would be unlikely to get in, and I think that in general these suspicions have been confirmed by some of the replies. Anyway enough of this it's 1.00Am here and I think it's time for bed.

Thanks to all who have responded.

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Old 07-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #16
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Thanks for the comment about the glint will give it a try, but that is generally a pretty extreme form of backlighting.
Yes, so what? It seems that you are even less flexible than you think RP is, putting everything into one category unnecessarily.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:22 AM   #17
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In defense of John, Chase, you have it a bit confused. RP does not like shots without light on the nose. True. But it isn't a matter of correct/wrong, it is a matter of RP preference (which the screener applied correctly here) versus photography. No nose light is not wrong, it is the RP preference as to what is acceptable.

This is a pet peeve of mind, if it were my site, which it certainly isn't!, I would allow a lot more of these sorts of shots. My preference. So I'm not worked up about it, it just is what it is.

So the screenrs are "right" but John is also "right" in objecting. But his shots aren't getting on.

Thanks for the response, I think that sums it up very well, ultimately I suspect that there is a lot of very acceptable (not wrong) more adventurous material out there which simply does not get a look in because of a somewhat restrictive attitude to what is perceived as right.

We all have different ideas in relation to our work but it is a pity when diversification from the norm is apparently not considered worthy for inclusion.

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Old 07-06-2009, 12:26 AM   #18
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I have to agree with the replies the other members have offered. Typically backlit images are not accepted unless there is something that makes them really stand out amongst the rest. There are lots of backlit shots around the site, but they are there because they are exceptional in quality. I would also like to point out that the location for the first photo is incorrect. It is Park Moabi, not Moapa.
Thanks for the correction!

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Old 07-06-2009, 01:20 AM   #19
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Maybe if you moved to Midsomer Norton you might get some in! hahaha

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Old 07-06-2009, 01:27 AM   #20
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Backlit shots do make it in. I have more than my share of them in the data base. I cringe at saying this, feeling kinda guilty for having them in while others get rejected.

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Old 07-06-2009, 01:37 AM   #21
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In defense of John, Chase, you have it a bit confused. RP does not like shots without light on the nose. True. But it isn't a matter of correct/wrong, it is a matter of RP preference (which the screener applied correctly here) versus photography. No nose light is not wrong, it is the RP preference as to what is acceptable.

This is a pet peeve of mind, if it were my site, which it certainly isn't!, I would allow a lot more of these sorts of shots. My preference. So I'm not worked up about it, it just is what it is.

So the screenrs are "right" but John is also "right" in objecting. But his shots aren't getting on.
I suppose you're correct. I myself have just found over the years that shots with light on the nose do see more appealing than shots that are backlit. I'm not saying THAT every image with little or no light on the nose is unattractive and very distracting, I think it has to be tastefully done, and in many cases, I have seen very impressive images both here on RP and other sites where the composition makes up for the "bad" lighting for a lack of a better word.

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Old 07-06-2009, 01:46 AM   #22
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Thanks for the response, I think that sums it up very well, ultimately I suspect that there is a lot of very acceptable (not wrong) more adventurous material out there which simply does not get a look in because of a somewhat restrictive attitude to what is perceived as right.

We all have different ideas in relation to our work but it is a pity when diversification from the norm is apparently not considered worthy for inclusion.

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Old 07-06-2009, 07:43 AM   #23
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I wonder if forum members would like to comment on the relevance of the screeners comments. Has anyone else had the same experience and is it a waste of time submitting anything other than traditional front 3/4 lit, dusk, night, accident, train in landscape or roster shots because that is the impression I am currently getting?

Any constructive criticism/comments would be appreciated.
The U.S. shot is nice and deserves to get in, not so keen on the Slovak unit though.

Backlit can work, even non glint shots - some UK (glint and non glint) examples

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Old 07-06-2009, 10:54 AM   #24
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very acceptable (not wrong) more adventurous material out there which simply does not get a look in because of a somewhat restrictive attitude to what is perceived as right.

John
Not right or wrong just not what they want. Here in the US of A way back in the days of steam, fans traded prints in the mail. The rule was rods up and sun behind your back and for fine shots thats the way it is. Not going to get them to change for you, others have tried.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:05 PM   #25
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Call the 2 shots whatever Jim, at no stage did I say that they didn't come under my listing, my suspicions were that backlit shots (now re-qualified as non glint) shots would be unlikely to get in, and I think that in general these suspicions have been confirmed by some of the replies.
The fact that you used "other than" implies that you didn't think your two shots fell into the categories you listed as being the only ones accepted. If that's not the case, then why even bother making that statement?

Also, backlit shots are accepted here all the time, so your "suspicions" aren't quite as accurate as you might think. If you have an appealing backlit shot, it will be accepted here.
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