Old 03-16-2011, 09:07 PM   #1
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default Help/constructive commentary, please!

The following were rejected for "foreground clutter," but it's in line with some others I've seen...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=916701016

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=912434&key=0

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=436109622

Also, these two were for "bad cropping." Huh? How would they be better?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=779000551

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1210461086


Thanks for any helpful suggestions...
Mike
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 09:25 PM   #2
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,895
Default

I didn't realize there were doing two engines like the 145. I don't know my Amtrak-ish, but I knew thy had just relased the 156. But that fence kills any chance and they're all cropped badly anyway and leaning. Since the fence kills the Amtrak shot, I'll focus on the two Bad Cropping rejects.

#4 --

-- Way too much sky
-- The shot is leaning CCW
-- You're too close to the bridge to make it an interesting element cropping wise with the train, esp. since the trian is way off to one side.
-- A seperate issue from above is that the train is way too close to the left side of the frame.
-- The image quailty is rotten and it needs sharpening, but in the end it may be bad image quality coming out of your camera.

#5

-- Pretty much all of the same issues here as the above shot, except there si even more sky and the train is even closer to the left side of the frame.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 09:35 PM   #3
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

Regarding the first set with the "obstructing object":
Judge your images on their own merit and things will go much easier for you... (rather then comparing what was accepted previously (and in the future).

Or... appeal it. Obstructing objects rejections seem to vary from screener to screener and year to year.

It's a view (and locations) not often seen on RP so an appeal is worth a shot.
The last is the best of the bunch as it is least crowded and gives a better feel of the location it's in.

Keep in mind, you risk admin action by resubmitting 3 times without fixing the issue presented (unless through an appeal).

As for the last set - the balance of the image is off. We've all been there - want to include a part of the scene that really does not work as captured.
Sometimes you gotta loose the building, the tower, the cantenary, or in your case, the end of the bridge allll the way over to the right of the scene at hand. Or... recompose it a bit "better".

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 09:59 PM   #4
troy12n
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,333
Default

The first 2, obviously the obstructing objects are the railing. It dont bother me, but i'm not a screener. The 3rd one is soft/OOF/PIQ.

#4 and #5 are just grab shots with not much interest to me. My 2 cents anyway... they got cropping, but could have gotten PEQ or composition as well, especially the last one, to close to the bottom left. I know for fact there are better things to shoot in Bensenville than this, go find it and shoot it...
troy12n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 10:40 PM   #5
Greg P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 1,003
Send a message via AIM to Greg P
Default

Foreground clutter is hit or miss.

As for the other 2

The train shouldn't be centered, but it is to far off to the side and there's to much empty space on the right.

I also see back lighting on the images.

My advice would be to look around here and see what kind of images you see and see how they are composed and take some more pictures. It's part of the learning process and it should be fun too
Greg P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2011, 01:35 AM   #6
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg P View Post
Foreground clutter is hit or miss.
Greg's language suggests a complete randomness. In my view while there isn't total consistency, there is usually or often a connection to something of substance. Basically, the more interesting the shot, the more latitude with something like this.

Here, you have a basic roster shot of an engine that has already made many appearances on RP and is certainly going to appear many more times. The light is poor, the side of the engine is reflecting individual light sources and has a lot of glare generally. The shot is not worthy of being cut slack in the foreground obstruction dimension.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2011, 01:50 AM   #7
Greg P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 1,003
Send a message via AIM to Greg P
Default

I could have said that better. I meant that there is some foreground clutter that is always bad, but then there is some that appears to some but not to others.
Greg P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2011, 12:07 PM   #8
troy12n
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,333
Default

What pisses me off is the rejection for foreground clutter when the train is on a girder bridge... just because the trucks cannot be seen in some cases they reject the photo pretty much universally.
troy12n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2011, 03:19 PM   #9
KevinM
Senior Member
 
KevinM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,003
Default

My first reaction to all 5 images is how soft they look. Mike, whatever sharpening scheme you are using probably needs some additional experimentation. Were it not for the other obvious issues such as the foreground clutter, I think the Screener would have hit the 'Undersharpened - Soft" button.

Beyond that, I pretty much agree with the other folks. The indoor shots of the Amtrak unit are pretty much in-your-face-type roster shots. Issues such as foreground clutter usually aren't forgiven in that type of shot. Were this a shot that included some scenery, or other interesting elements, they might have cut you some slack. BTW, the first two Amtrack shots are way too tight. Roster shots ARE supposed to be tight, but those are a little too extreme.

As for the CP shots, if I were screening, I might have hit the "Composition and Balance" button, vs. simple bad cropping. The trains are definitely too far on the left, but I'm not sure that a re-crop would fix these. You'd have to cut some of the bridge off and it would probably look awkward. As Mitch noted, the thing to do with this location is search for a (legal) spot where you can compose with the train in the proper position in the frame and still get the entire bridge complex in the frame such that the photo has "balance". With some photo spots, it may take several experiments before you get a shot you're really proud of.
__________________
/Kevin

My RP stuff is here.

Link to my Flickr Albums. Lots of Steam Railroad stuff there from all over the US.

Last edited by KevinM; 03-17-2011 at 03:22 PM.
KevinM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2011, 03:31 PM   #10
Hatchetman
Part-Time Railfan
 
Hatchetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,381
Default

Looking at the yard shots, I'm wondering where you were. If that is a legal place to be, I would definitely go there myself.
Hatchetman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 08:56 AM   #11
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default

Well, it is legal if you are the conductor and pose the engines while you are waiting on another train to head into the Dog yard so you can get your engines into the west end of the runner to be serviced...

Sharpening - none... suggestions on getting this done? Haven't really tried. I realize the 822 shots were not ideal locations, but thought the subject might warrant some exception as it is shop fresh. I tried cropping and got rejected for "soft." So, again, sharpening ideas? Would shooting in the "raw" mode produce a better image to work with?

Thanks!
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 01:03 PM   #12
Hatchetman
Part-Time Railfan
 
Hatchetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,381
Default

The Amtrak ones are never going to get in, so save yourself the aggravation and start working on some new projects. They suffer from multiple problems, one of which is they aren't in focus. Can't fix that.

What kind of gear are you using?
Hatchetman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 06:04 AM   #13
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

The last two, it looks like the bridge was the subject, and the train was there by mistake. Too much dead space, and the crop is almost touching the plow..
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 01:40 PM   #14
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRiver400 View Post
Sharpening - none... suggestions on getting this done? Haven't really tried.
Well, then you really haven't finished the photograph. Post process is a pretty important stage of the shot, especially sharpening after resizing the shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRiver400 View Post
Would shooting in the "raw" mode produce a better image to work with?
I always suggest folks shoot in RAW. I only wish I had started sooner. Think of the RAW as a digital negative to work from. But you can shoot in RAW all day long and still have shots leaning, badly composed shots that need a lot of work after you snap the shutter.

And you still need to sharpen the shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
The Amtrak ones are never going to get in, so save yourself the aggravation and start working on some new projects.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
The last two, it looks like the bridge was the subject, and the train was there by mistake. Too much dead space, and the crop is almost touching the plow..
That's a pretty dead on statement in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
What kind of gear are you using?
Tellingus that might give us an idea or two on what to suggest as well.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 03:35 PM   #15
Greg P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 1,003
Send a message via AIM to Greg P
Default

RAW is a life saver absolutely.
Greg P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:51 PM   #16
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default

Equipment is beginner grade, I suppose - Canon T1i and standard Canon lenses (no L grade here). Always shooting with highest image quality available, just not in "raw" format. Frankly, I never had this kind of trouble from my Minolta Maxxum equipment years ago. Just got back into shooting photos recently as my son is now 2 and he gets to be the subject of a lot. BUT, I did enjoy shooting choo-choos in the past and wish I had taken more than a half dozen or so pics during the years I was working for NS.

I recomposed the cropping and was rejected for, you guessed it, soft/unsharpened on the following:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=519817419

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=133452658

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=912655&key=0

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=912654&key=0

I really didn't realize the sharpening process was so necessary on digital. I'm game to try and I have a full version of Adobe CS4 and have had some nice successes editing in Photoshop.

Thanks,
Mike
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:06 PM   #17
Hatchetman
Part-Time Railfan
 
Hatchetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,381
Default

I'm a relative beginner myself, but honestly I think there was something fundamentally wrong with how those were taken. They seem to be out of focus. What's the shutter speed?
Hatchetman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:09 PM   #18
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,895
Default

The T1i is a nice camera. It's well worth the money you spent on it and can give great results. Practically every shot I've taken until January was with an older version of the Rebel you got. It's still hard to tell if the trouble is in how the shot is capture or if it's in post processing. For instance, while shooting, if you shoot on automatic focus, remember to have your red dot over the spot in the shot you want to focus on. In your shots that are heavy on the left hand side of the frame, if your red focusing dot is on the right side of the frame, the train probably will not be in focus.

I'd suggest shooting in RAW and highest JPEG to start with. That way, if you're still a little unsure of editting RAW, you can put those files away for a later day and work on the JPEGs now. I wish I had done this when I went digital back in '04. But not to say something really stupid, shooting RAW won't help with your composition. You don't seem to be leaving room to crop. It would be better to shoot a little too wide and be able to rotate and crop down than to shoot everything tight -- and esp. too tight -- and not be able to save it.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:12 PM   #19
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
I'm a relative beginner myself, but honestly I think there was something fundamentally wrong with how those were taken. They seem to be out of focus. What's the shutter speed?
Here are the settings for the latest 4 of his rejections:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=519817419

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/800 second ===> 0.00125 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 9/2 ===> ƒ/4.5
# ISO Speed Ratings = 100


http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=133452658

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/800 second ===> 0.00125 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 9/2 ===> ƒ/4.5
# ISO Speed Ratings = 100


http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=912655&key=0

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/1600 second ===> 0.00063 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 7/2 ===> ƒ/3.5
# ISO Speed Ratings = 100


http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=912654&key=0

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/1250 second ===> 0.0008 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 4/1 ===> ƒ/4
# ISO Speed Ratings = 100



The last two were shot three seconds apart...yet the settings are different. Looks as though he may have been shooting in Auto.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias

Last edited by JimThias; 03-19-2011 at 09:16 PM.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:14 PM   #20
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default

A couple are 1/800 @ 4.5, 1/1250 @ 4, and one is 1/1600 @ 3.5.

I used the evaluative metering setting to let the camera make the exposure decision. Bad idea?

Yes, I am shooting in "Auto." Suggestions on whether shutter or aperture priority is best? I have done some exposure bracketing with the camera, and the action sequencing works great for shooting a fast moving two-year old, but I'm just not getting what I'd like to see with the choo-choos.

Last edited by NewRiver400; 03-19-2011 at 09:18 PM.
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:34 PM   #21
troy12n
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,333
Default

That location isnt getting any better no matter what shutter settings you are using
troy12n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:47 PM   #22
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
That location isnt getting any better no matter what shutter settings you are using
Location for the CP shots hasn't been an issue to my understanding - did I miss something? If location were a determining factor at RP, we could toss a LOT of stuff.

I thought we were talking about composition, cropping, sharpening, and exposure settings.
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 09:49 PM   #23
NewRiver400
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Suwanee, Georgia
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Here, you have a basic roster shot of an engine that has already made many appearances on RP and is certainly going to appear many more times.
Not true - 822 has yet to make an appearance on RP since her overhaul and repaint to the anniversary phase three scheme.

Last edited by NewRiver400; 03-19-2011 at 09:55 PM.
NewRiver400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 10:41 PM   #24
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRiver400 View Post
Yes, I am shooting in "Auto." Suggestions on whether shutter or aperture priority is best?
A sunny day is the easiest for shooting in manual, IMO. You also remove any chance of the camera accidentally exposing the photo based on something else in the scene other than the subject you're shooting. Simply choose an aperture and ISO (f5.6 or f8 and ISO 100, for instance) and then adjust the shutter speed accordingly. In a scene like this, metering off all that blue sky would have been the key. Most people here will suggest shooting in manual as the best way to go for photographing trains.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias

Last edited by JimThias; 03-19-2011 at 10:44 PM.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 10:42 PM   #25
CSXRailfanNS
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 62
Default

I find that shooting in manual is the best. I learned the thought from my two teachers of photo classes, and once I started shooting in manual my shoots improved ten fold. I haven't had too much experience with the priority modes (either shutter or aperture), so those might get you better shots, but again, I find manual so much easier. Which is weird to say since auto is supposed to be the easiest.

Going from my experience with my DSLR's, if you practice a lot with manual, such as just toying around with different settings and seeing what changing different things does, using manual will become second nature.
CSXRailfanNS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.