Old 08-20-2010, 12:56 PM   #26
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I myself have reservations about third party and variable stop lenses.

I would have gone for the variable aperture lens from Nikon. (Then again a boss once said to me, "Dennis, you are very good at spending my money!")

1 mm at the length we are talking about does makes a difference. Sometimes the even 10 was not wide enough for me.

Do post photos and let us know what your experiences are.
Will do, even if the results may not be "RP-worthy". The trip isn't until September, but I'll post an update after we get back.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:22 PM   #27
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Good choice on the Tokina 11-16. The f/2.8 has been far, far more valuable to me than an extra 1mm. It's built real solid and works on full frame at 16mm!

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Old 08-20-2010, 04:50 PM   #28
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I found the extra range of the Canon 10-22 valuable, believe it or not! I imagine the 11-16 is far closer to having a prime than a zoom, it's got what, 0.5x zoom? If you find yourself always shooting at the widest setting it's no problem, but unless you have a second body I feel the little extra zoom range is handy. F/2.8 is great, but range could be better!
I'm REALLY glad that there's a 16-35 F/2.8 when it comes to full-frame ultrawide, you get the best of both worlds!
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:22 PM   #29
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I found the extra range of the Canon 10-22 valuable, believe it or not! I imagine the 11-16 is far closer to having a prime than a zoom, it's got what, 0.5x zoom? If you find yourself always shooting at the widest setting it's no problem, but unless you have a second body I feel the little extra zoom range is handy. F/2.8 is great, but range could be better!
I'm REALLY glad that there's a 16-35 F/2.8 when it comes to full-frame ultrawide, you get the best of both worlds!
I'm a little confused by the last sentence. Are you saying things are different for full-frame? The 10-22 and 16-35 ranges are equivalent after adjusting for the crop, so for both types of cameras one has the best of both worlds.
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Old 08-21-2010, 03:33 AM   #30
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10-22 has a bigger range and variable, slow aperture. 11-16 has a smaller range and a fast, fixed aperture. The 16-35 has a fast, fixed aperture and a bigger range, I love it!
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:52 PM   #31
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Ah, range and speed, got it.

BTW, both you and Dennis have preferences against variable stop zooms (maximum aperture varies with focal length). Why? Or rather, why is that a big deal? I view it as a minor thing.
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:21 PM   #32
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I don't really care when it comes to rail photography, but during those odd times that some crazy person actually pays me to take their photo being able to set the lens wide open in manual can be quite useful, especially indoors.
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:37 PM   #33
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I don't really care when it comes to rail photography, but during those odd times that some crazy person actually pays me to take their photo being able to set the lens wide open in manual can be quite useful, especially indoors.
Sorry, I don't understand, how does this relate to max aperture varying by focal length?
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Old 08-21-2010, 03:43 PM   #34
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Both you and Dennis have preferences against variable stop zooms (maximum aperture varies with focal length). Why? Or rather, why is that a big deal? I view it as a minor thing.
J

It is very difficult (read: expensive) to design and manufacture wide angle lenses with large apertures. Thus as a cost/product compromise, the lens companies offer them.

Shooting in full sun, (i.e. lots of light) a variable stop is indeed a minor thing.

When in low light however, I find it truly exasperating. In the heat of battle, when the great light is fading fast, I find myself wasting time having to consider what the stop is. It takes away time when I need it the most.

And it always offers the least amount of light at the most useful focal length!

I vastly prefer reducing the variables. The fewer technical issues I have to deal with means less screw ups and more time creatively spent.

If you work with the gear on a professional, daily basis, this becomes really annoying. You will notice then, that the Canon "L" lens line, geared toward the needs and wallets of professionals, does not have variable wide aperture lenses.
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Old 08-21-2010, 05:16 PM   #35
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Sorry, I don't understand, how does this relate to max aperture varying by focal length?
If you have it set at, say, 1/160, F/3.5, and you zoom in, suddenly you're a stop off what you were before at F/4.5! If you don't have time to dial in a different shutter speed or simply forget, your shot may be too noisy to recover.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:30 AM   #36
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I think I follow the debate sop far.

Question - how significant is the difference between F 2.8 and F 3.5? Does it really make a major difference in low light conditions (as has been implied)?
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:47 AM   #37
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I think I follow the debate sop far.

Question - how significant is the difference between F 2.8 and F 3.5? Does it really make a major difference in low light conditions (as has been implied)?
In this day and age of ISO's in the thousands (rather than Kodachrome with 64 ASA) it is NOT the issue it used to be.

Who really cares when a camera is at 200 ISO and you have to go twice as fast to 400? 2.8 to 3.5 is less than a stop so just go up a commensurate amount of ISO.

If I had the money, I'd buy the Canon 10-22 3.5-4.5 in a New York Minute...

If I had even more money, I would buy a comparable, non-varible stop "L" lens for my 5D. (If I had a 5D...)
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
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I think I follow the debate sop far.

Question - how significant is the difference between F 2.8 and F 3.5? Does it really make a major difference in low light conditions (as has been implied)?
Try F/2.8 and F/4.5
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
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I think I follow the debate sop far.

Question - how significant is the difference between F 2.8 and F 3.5? Does it really make a major difference in low light conditions (as has been implied)?
Depends on the situation. It might make the difference between a blurred shot handheld at 1/30 sec vs. an ok shot at 1/60 sec. Or a blurred moving subject at 1/60 sec vs. a sharp subject at 1/125 sec. Or the difference between a nice, grain-free shot at ISO 800 vs. a noisy shot at ISO 1000 or 1200 or 1600.

Also, the bigger aperture will give you more control over depth-of-field for subject isolation.

A bigger aperture may also help auto focus speed. Some auto focus systems get sluggish and may "hunt" more with smaller apertures in dimmer light.

I shoot my kids' sports, and a stop or two can make a huge difference in dimly lit stadiums. If the only shooting you do is trains in broad daylight, it might not make much difference at all.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:54 AM   #40
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OK - well thanks for all the advice.

I made my decision and went for the Canon 10-22mm.

Very pleased indeed - a nice lens and very sharp.

I am now learning how to use it - interesting possibilities are opening up!

So far have used it in the bush, but have yet to try it on a railway subject though - have'nt had the chance.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:19 AM   #41
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Tokina 12-24mm F4 a look (Tokina 12-24mm F4 AT-X 124AF Pro DX II to be exact, I'm not joking). I just picked one up in early July and am pretty damned impressed with it.

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I had one, Nice but I didn't like one that wide but was a great lens. Tokina Make's lens's For others under contract Like the old Vivitar series 1 line. There was a nice 35-85 F2.8 zoom they had.
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