Old 03-04-2018, 08:02 PM   #26
bigbassloyd
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Heck I'm surprised that even I have a photo in there

Dennis - while extremely flattering of you, my talents aren't very impressive

Mitch - Are you suggesting my 2-4 uploads on my personal facebook page per month, and my 4-6 submissions a year here aren't sufficient to judge?

Loyd L.
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:32 AM   #27
Dennis A. Livesey
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I think you overlooked something in the replies - a photograph CAN be enjoyed even if it is not reality grounded - just not here, on RP. Why? Because RP is a conservative, journalistic, document oriented site.
Notice how an image must be reality-based for you to relate to it?

Why?

Is it not possible to simply say "Wow, I like that, I don't care how it was made!"
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
Notice how an image must be reality-based for you to relate to it?

Why?

Is it not possible to simply say "Wow, I like that, I don't care how it was made!"
For me, the "WHY" is because once you lose touch with reality, you become an electronic painter (Photoshop whiz) vs. a photographer.

Just my $.02.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:46 AM   #29
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Do I have to make a choice? Do whatever works for you, variety is the spice of life, and RP is just one of many venues. These discussions always remind me a English lit class in which we tried to figure out the "meaning" of Keats' Ode to a Grecian Urn....there is a term that comes to mind but it is probably not good for polite society.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
Notice how an image must be reality-based for you to relate to it?

Why?

Is it not possible to simply say "Wow, I like that, I don't care how it was made!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
I think you overlooked something in the replies - a photograph CAN be enjoyed even if it is not reality grounded - just not here, on RP. Why? Because RP is a conservative, journalistic, document oriented site.
Do you really believe on a site like RP... or a magazine like TRAINS, it is fair game to submit a photo with a panned effect that was created in post processing without noting? I don't care how someone does it but I DO care how it was made.

/Mitch
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:46 AM   #31
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So the question of is the image any good is secondary to the journalistic litmus test?
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #32
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As for reality - what truly impresses me - at least in "the real world" are those I would consider "Masters of Reality". That's a challenge! To find and capture a scene that stands apart from the rest without excessive use of Lightroom sliders and PS manipulations. Some of those who I believe have mastered that task with regularity include yourself. Samuel Phillips, Walter Scriptunas, Pete Lerro, Georg Trub, maybe Loyd - not sure, he needs to post more stuff, lol, those, just to name a few.

/Mitch
I don't know, Mitch. Until we get to see the straight out of the camera images, I will remain skeptical and believe that a lot of processing is involved. Nothing wrong with that at all. I appreciate the images, but to this day I've yet to learn of a camera that can capture the same range of light as the human eye, or one that can create scenes that look more magical than what the human eye saw.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:55 AM   #33
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Do I have to make a choice? Do whatever works for you, variety is the spice of life, and RP is just one of many venues.
Agreed, John. I really couldn't care less. I just want to take photographs, process them to my liking, and share them with people. I'll let others be the judge on whether they are "document or interpretation." And whatever they conclude, it won't make a lick of difference in my life.
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Old 03-05-2018, 12:07 PM   #34
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I don't know, Mitch. Until we get to see the straight of the camera images, I will remain skeptical and believe that a lot of processing is involved. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I think most of us agree - exaggerations are acceptable, so long as they don't get too extreme. Used like spice, they add, so long as you don't dump them on the main dish.

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I appreciate the images, but to this day I've yet to learn of a camera that can capture the same range of light as the human eye, or one that can create scenes that look more magical than what the human eye saw.
Still shooting with Canon, too? Lol.


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So the question of is the image any good is secondary to the journalistic litmus test?
Not sure why you are getting confused on a response that seems well stated.

No, the question of "is the image any good" is not secondary to where it is posted. The question is - does that image, which can be fantastic, belong in a collection of other images that play by another set of rules - whether assumed or - as is the case for RP, listed for patrons to abide by.

We are talking simultaneously about two issues - one a gross exaggeration and the other, manipulation. I naturally am much more tolerating of exaggerations than manipulations.

/Mitch

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Old 03-05-2018, 02:40 PM   #35
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I don't think I have zero interest in advancing but here I have less than 100% interest in making an effort that may yield no results, especially when I have plenty of 70's stuff then 90's and even later that I have only scratched the surface.

A while back I had train in the rain that people here thought was pretty good but rejected, I'll probably try to bring it back sometime but it had PAQ. I had a night shot of a barge illuminating a railroad bridge, I was thrilled when I took it, PAQ. A train coming out of the fog at the shot tower in Dubuque, PAQ. These were actually pretty straight out of the camera. I understand the concept of continuing to try but after a while you get the idea that either you are not good enough or it is not what is going to make it.

Bob

As I've been told here on the forums before, "Shoot what you like and what makes you happy, its RP's site and their tastes...." Just because they dont like it doesn't mean your not good enough. If we never try, how we succeed?

As to the thread's question, I process to adjust to the way the scene was when the shutter clicked. Lighten/darken it a little when camera got it wrong, level it it cuz I wasn't thinking fast enough and sharpen it a bit for RP's tastes and I'm done....
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:52 AM   #36
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Still shooting with Canon, too? Lol.
Yeah, and one with a mirror, too.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:44 AM   #37
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"Not sure why you are getting confused on a response that seems well stated."
Mitch Goldman

And I am sure as to why you cannot address what I was asking about.

I am trying to talk about the emotion, the spirit of the image.

Here the conversation, particularly with you Mitch, cannot get out of the "is it real?" question.

As Kevin said, this is not the place for the opinions I wish to discuss.

Thanks for your time guys. I hope I didn't waste it.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:59 AM   #38
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Where do you stand? Must a railroad photograph be right out of the camera for you to like it? Or can the photo processing go far from reality but still work for you?
What exactly is your question?

Maybe you are asking:
"Must a railroad photograph be right out of the camera for you to like it?"

But I think most are hearing:
"Is RP the place for illustrations and manipulations"

I like RP the way it is.
If like want to view reality based fantasy, I'd suggest Deviant Art.
If you want to view all forms of photography & art - I'd suggest FLICKR.
If you like a SITE with only reality based images - RP is the place.

I'd love to see the once discussed sister site that would have showcased works of art and illustration. Why? Because I believe most of us CAN IN FACT appreciate a photograph that has been processed far past reality.

/Mitch
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #39
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If you like a SITE with only reality based images - RP is the place.
No, I think the only site for "reality based images" is http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/

I'd be willing to bet 95% of the images there have never been open in any editing program.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:12 PM   #40
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No, I think the only site for "reality based images" is http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/

I'd be willing to bet 95% of the images there have never been open in any editing program.
LMAO! That is as real as real can ever be.

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Old 03-06-2018, 05:56 PM   #41
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No, I think the only site for "reality based images" is http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/

I'd be willing to bet 95% of the images there have never been open in any editing program.
Absolutely agree. There is no screening process. While the audience, I suspect is much smaller, I've posted some of my RP rejects and some accepted ones there for the sole reason of RR preservation. Its another place to find the older pics that dont meet the RP quality standards that would be otherwise be left stuffed in a shoe box somewhere.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:21 PM   #42
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Cool Thanks Dennis

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If need to be inspired by superb, cutting edge photography, and not just the rail kind, I come here.

http://bit.ly/2FiYXIl
Thanks for providing that link. Do not think I have seen it before. Spent a lot of time last night looking at the whole thing. Perhaps I should take back all my criticism of RP screeners, but a lot of the images I had not seen before, which I suppose is one of the challenges of RP....so much volume of mediocre stuff the great stuff gets submerged.

Thanks to JMF for "curating" the album us.

The album really highlights the diversity of creativity. Hell, even a few of mine crept in. But it also highlights what is not in the album. There are a lot of really good images that are not "creative" enough to pass JMF's test, which is not a criticism just a reflection on the diversity of "good" images.

Part of my frustration with this discussion is the complexity of most of the answers. Not many rights or wrongs, a lot of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I have never "studied" art beyond the typical introductory course, so my level of ignorance is high. But I am stuck on the concept of variety. I have a hard time categorizing what I like and don't like because it is so divers, much less the differences between what I look to produce myself and what I enjoy seeing others produce. What I like to produce is formalist and narrow is style. But what looks good to me by others can be incredibly diverse, stuff I never would or could do myself.

For example, it is hard for me to consider how much post processing is done as any kind of relevant criteria. I all depends on the result, there are plenty of over processed pix out there and probably an equal number that would look better if they had more processing.

Dennis, thanks for starting an interesting discussion.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:54 PM   #43
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For me the answer is quite simple. I can appreciate both "forms" of photography, provided one important fact is included. Has the image been altered in any significant way from the original image? By significant, I mean more than simple exposure, color correction, or sharpening. Changing colors, adding logos, creating motion, adding clouds, removing more than dust or a stray beer can are fine as long as those changes are noted. While photos can be artistic, in our hobby they often document history that needs to be preserved. I have been to hundreds of slide shows and have seen probably half a million slides, and can probably count on one hand the number of altered images. What you see is what you get, good or bad. Digital images have changed that. It is relatively easy to make major changes to an image, good or bad as well. I just want to know.....

Greg

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Old 03-11-2018, 05:26 PM   #44
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If need to be inspired by superb, cutting edge photography, and not just the rail kind, I come here.

http://bit.ly/2FiYXIl
Hmmmm. Tastes differ, of course. I scrolled through a couple hundred of those and found maybe half a dozen that I would save or fave.

Those remind me of a certain artsy photo magazine I would look at, but would almost never buy.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:51 AM   #45
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Hmmmm. Tastes differ, of course. I scrolled through a couple hundred of those and found maybe half a dozen that I would save or fave.

Those remind me of a certain artsy photo magazine I would look at, but would almost never buy.
My curiosity is how this cat got in and not the other.

Image © FarRail Tours
PhotoID: 651053
Photograph © FarRail Tours


I really liked many of the earlier ones and think you have open them to appreciate but now is carried away with the Far Out Rails even tho I like Hi Ho Silver and Rin Tin Tin. Dating myself for sure and before the modern word meanings.

Image © FarRail Tours
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Photograph © FarRail Tours




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