Old 05-30-2007, 08:41 PM   #26
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Mike;

I'm not sure what threads you've been reading, but we haven't been telling too many people how great their shots are lately. People come here and ask questions. We answer them and hopefully help them a well as help us too.

I don't care if you like my photography. But I'd like to point out your illogical arguement for why mirror shots are uninteresting. I think since cameras have been around for so long and now that everyone and their brother seems to have one that there's probably not too many shots that have not been taken yet. Do we stop taking aerial shots because Mike Bates has taken so many good ones? Do we stop shooting steam pan/pace shots because Mitch Goldman is the master?

No, we do this because we like to do it, because we think it is fun and we hope we getting a little better each day. And some of us come to these forums for that same purpose. But you, like the dearly departed fellow from Pennsylvania seem to think it's a full contact sport.

I feel sorry for someone with that kind of misplaced anger.


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Old 05-30-2007, 08:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Telling some that I don't like their photo is a bad thing?
Not really, but there's a certain way to go about it. Some call it tact. I dislike steam shots but I don't go around saying Mitch Goldman's shots are a waste.

As an example of tact, the following two statements convey the same message, but go about it differently:

"Dave's shot is better because it's a new approach. Joe's shot is a waste. I don't like it."

-or-

"Dave's shot is a new approach to that technique, but I'm just not a big fan of the mirror/reflection-type shots in general."

See the difference? The point gets made without directly bagging on Joe's shot. You don't need to be "brutally honest" to convey your message...just some discretion.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:52 PM   #28
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When someone new posts a rejected photo you guys always tell him what's wrong and help him. I think that's great and I'm sure it helps people a lot.
However, when one of the core users of the forum posts a shot (not a reject) there is hardly anything but praises, even when there are glaring defects.

Comparing a mirror shot to an aerial or pace shot is pretty...far fetched. Mirror shots are tasteless and I just don't enjoy looking at them. After all, you are just looking at a car mirror which is just dumb.

If I did have anger issues, I wouldn't take it out here. That would be pretty useless.

Joe, you can say you don't care all you want, but you are still responding to this thread. If you truly didn't care, you wouldn't respond. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, I'll keep my opinion to myself about your photos in the future.
Don't crush the flower.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
Not really, but there's a certain way to go about it. Some call it tact. I dislike steam shots but I don't go around saying Mitch Goldman's shots are a waste.

As an example of tact, the following two statements convey the same message, but go about it differently:

"Dave's shot is better because it's a new approach. Joe's shot is a waste. I don't like it."

-or-

"Dave's shot is a new approach to that technique, but I'm just not a big fan of the mirror/reflection-type shots in general."

See the difference? The point gets made without directly bagging on Joe's shot. You don't need to be "brutally honest" to convey your message...just some discretion.
I shouldn't have to be careful about how I voice my dislike for someones photo. I could be much more vulgar than I have been. In an internet forum anything anyone says shouldn't be taken too seriously. As long as someones reason for not liking a photo is legit, it shouldn't matter how its said. We're all grown ups here, we should be able to handle someone saying "mean" things about our photos without our feelings getting hurt.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
However, when one of the core users of the forum posts a shot (not a reject) there is hardly anything but praises, even when there are glaring defects.
I'm curious...when did one person sing praises for Joe's shot in this thread? He posted it and your's was the very next reply.

Quote:
Mirror shots are tasteless and I just don't enjoy looking at them. After all, you are just looking at a car mirror which is just dumb.
That's awesome, but people have varying tastes. If you dislike them, don't look. Why make a post about it and bag on somebody else? Are you trying to influence what people take photos of by voicing your distaste? This kinda falls under the whole "If you don't have anything nice to say..." concept...
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I shouldn't have to be careful about how I voice my dislike for someones photo. I could be much more vulgar than I have been. In an internet forum anything anyone says shouldn't be taken too seriously. As long as someones reason for not liking a photo is legit, it shouldn't matter how its said. We're all grown ups here, we should be able to handle someone saying "mean" things about our photos without our feelings getting hurt.
I'm glad you could be more vulgar, but what's that prove? But the fact that you don't understand the concept of tact when speaking publically speaks volumes about you and it de-legtimizes what you say, even though we're in a forum of "grown ups." But, to each his own...
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I'm curious...when did one person sing praises for Joe's shot in this thread? He posted it and your's was the very next reply.
I wasn't talking about Joe's shot specifically, just shots by the common users in general.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
That's awesome, but people have varying tastes. If you dislike them, don't look. Why make a post about it and bag on somebody else? Are you trying to influence what people take photos of by voicing your distaste? This kinda falls under the whole "If you don't have anything nice to say..." concept...
Whenever I'm seeking public opinion on something, I want as many opinions as possible. Only hearing, or only wanting to hear one side of things isn't a good way to go about things. If I wanted to just hear good things, I'd ask my Mom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I'm glad you could be more vulgar, but what's that prove? But the fact that you don't understand the concept of tact when speaking publically speaks volumes about you and it de-legtimizes what you say, even though we're in a forum of "grown ups." But, to each his own...
There is a line where words become more offensive than constructive, but I don't believe I've crossed that. I have been called a negative person in the past, so my view may be a little skewed. You guys seem to take my opinion too personally, but for everyones sake, I'll tone it down in the future.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
However, when one of the core users of the forum posts a shot (not a reject) there is hardly anything but praises, even when there are glaring defects.
Well, I might be one of the core users you refer to, as I've been posting regularly during the last several months, and I sure didn't get praises for my recently posted Gaithersburg pair of alternatives.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Well, I might be one of the core users you refer to, as I've been posting regularly during the last several months, and I sure didn't get praises for my recently posted Gaithersburg pair of alternatives.
Later on the in thread you did though.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
There is a line where words become more offensive than constructive, but I don't believe I've crossed that. I have been called a negative person in the past, so my view may be a little skewed.
Too bad you didn't take the criticism to heart in the past. It would have spared us the burden of repeating the message.

Quote:
but for everyones sake, I'll tone it down in the future.
That's what one does when one wants to get along with others. I for one look forward to the new Mike B!
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Later on the in thread you did though.
I'm not allowed to have a successful shot once in a while? Any, as Joe said then, "I'm not going to say this is one of the better shots on the database." It was a decent shot, 'tis all. The praise was relative to a (now more clearly, thanks to the feedback) bad shot!
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Too bad you didn't take the criticism to heart in the past. It would have spared us the burden of repeating the message.
I guess you guys have called me negative before, but I was referring to people I actually know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
I'm not allowed to have a successful shot once in a while? Any, as Joe said then, "I'm not going to say this is one of the better shots on the database." It was a decent shot, 'tis all. The praise was relative to a (now more clearly, thanks to the feedback) bad shot!
Everyone is allowed a decent shot from time to time, if they work for it.
For the record, I actually really like the photo. Made me say "hmm" to myself. I guess I was just trying to say that I get the impression that you guys are more concerned about giving each other compliments than honest scrutiny.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I guess you guys have called me negative before, but I was referring to people I actually know.

Everyone is allowed a decent shot from time to time, if they work for it.
For the record, I actually really like the photo. Made me say "hmm" to myself. I guess I was just trying to say that I get the impression that you guys are more concerned about giving each other compliments than honest scrutiny.
I, for one, come here for scrutiny. And I generally do compliments in comments on the database pix and not here in the forum. Some of the other photographers here can't help it, they usually produce good stuff. I'm just glad they use some of their time to participate here.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:17 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
The first mirror shot that I saw (about 7 years ago) was cool, but everyone after that I find to be pretty boring..
The first train I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first caboose I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first car I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first lake I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first camera I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first bicycle I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first sunrise I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first bird I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first dog I saw nearly 40 years ago was cool, but everyone [sic] after that I find to be pretty boring.

The first...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I guess I was just trying to say that I get the impression that you guys are more concerned about giving each other compliments than honest scrutiny.
And you care what "you guys" do on here because.....?


Mike, really...what the hell is wrong with you? A guy posts a picture to share and spark some conversation and all you can bring is negativity to this thread. WHY? Do you find it a challenge to be an ass?

Just curious.

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Old 05-30-2007, 10:29 PM   #40
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I think it comes down to maturity vs. immaturity. There is ways to be positive while expressing a negative, some people obviously don't understand that concept.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:30 PM   #41
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Not taking sides here, but dont tell me some of the people in this thread arent always careful with what they say when someone posts a reject. So if all of you are going to be mad at someone for being "mean", look at some of the people that you've had an attitude with. Most of the time, the rejected shot does suck, but I love it how there are very few people who actually "encourage". We point out all of the bad stuff first. Im guilty of the same, but what is different here? Ya, maybe Mike didnt offer any constructive criticism, but he had HIS opinion. Just food for thought, if you want the "soft" answer, why dont you give it to the newbies who need it.

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Old 05-30-2007, 11:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisconsinCentral
Not taking sides here, but dont tell me some of the people in this thread arent always careful with what they say when someone posts a reject. So if all of you are going to be mad at someone for being "mean", look at some of the people that you've had an attitude with. Most of the time, the rejected shot does suck, but I love it how there are very few people who actually "encourage". We point out all of the bad stuff first. Im guilty of the same, but what is different here? Ya, maybe Mike didnt offer any constructive criticism, but he had HIS opinion. Just food for thought, if you want the "soft" answer, why dont you give it to the newbies who need it.

Alec
So, just to be clear, you're defending THIS completely random and useless post in this thread:

Quote:
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What a waste.

???
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
So, just to be clear, you're defending THIS completely random and useless post in this thread:




???
It's my opinion. Are you saying my opinion is worthless?
Why do I have to be so nice about everything? If I have a negative view on something, why can't I express that?
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:45 PM   #44
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Im not taking his side Jim. Yes, the comment seemed a bit useless, but he later explained and clarified his remark. And if it seems so stupid and useless, why did it generate about 15 replies?

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Old 05-30-2007, 11:46 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
It's my opinion. Are you saying my opinion is worthless?
Why do I have to be so nice about everything? If I have a negative view on something, why can't I express that?
Really, what's the point of coming in a thread and saying "what a waste"? Really, now.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:48 PM   #46
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It's just as useful as saying "that's a great shot."
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:01 AM   #47
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Quote:
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It's just as useful as saying "that's a great shot."
Right, and punching someone is as useful as shaking their hand. NOW I see where you're coming from.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:03 AM   #48
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Right, and punching someone is as useful as shaking their hand. NOW I see where you're coming from.
No no no. They are both scrutiny, just different sides. Both are needed but not always wanted.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:07 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
It's just as useful as saying "that's a great shot."
Correct!

Mike, in my view, you are simply abrasive. Pointlessly abrasive. Not so badly behaved that you risk getting tossed from the forum, just badly behaved enough (on occasion - it's not every post, let's keep some perspective here, everybody) that it can be unpleasant to see those posts of yours that head off in that direction. And I, for one, would rather not face any unpleasantness as I indulge in this, or any, dimension of my favorite hobby. I'm trying to have fun here!

As for
Quote:
We point out all of the bad stuff first.
and related sentences, you make some good points. I do think a partial or substantial defense is here, however. People often post here because they want to know how to fix a rejected shot. Naturally, most or even all of the comments will be negative - constructively so! - and especially when the shot has no chance.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:08 AM   #50
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J is wise...very wise...
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