Old 09-04-2005, 05:21 PM   #1
socalrailfan
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Default Stumped, unlevel horizon

One of the big problems here at rp.net is the inability to be able to communicate with the screeners. IE my latest submission/rejection. I just don't see what he's saying, the engine edges are straight up and down,the bridge in the background is percectly horizontal. So I don't have a clue which way he wants it moved. And if it is moved it would be so minimal what's the point anyways?

Photo ID 162385 was rejected from the database.
Railroad: Union Pacific
Locomotive: GE AC4400CW
Screener Comments:

Reason(s) for Rejection:

- Horizon Unlevel: Try levelling the image in your photo editing software.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=162385
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:29 PM   #2
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The foreground of the picture looks tilted, and if you put the edge of another browser window, which is vertical, up against the lines of the engine or the building on the left, you'll see a little tilt.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:54 PM   #3
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Exclamation

For my photos I usually test the horizon level with the vertical supports of a bridge like you have on the right side of the photo or a building. Poles and even signals can be skewed to one side (hopefully a building isn't.) For this shot just rotate it .5 or 1 to the right and it will be perfect. Nice shot, Dave.
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:00 PM   #4
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Thanks, I did a .3 to the right and it was accepted.
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
One of the big problems here at rp.net is the inability to be able to communicate with the screeners.
You can. It's called an appeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
IE my latest submission/rejection. I just don't see what he's saying, the engine edges are straight up and down,the bridge in the background is percectly horizontal. So I don't have a clue which way he wants it moved. And if it is moved it would be so minimal what's the point anyways?
This is a good example of how to explain your disagreement with a rejection when you appeal it.
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:09 PM   #6
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Thanks, I guess. I guess I always think what's the point of the appeal, he's already said "No" so why try and justify it if it doesn't fit what he was after anyways. Make sense?
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:17 PM   #7
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Appeals will get accepted sometimes. In this case, though, the reason was unlevel horizon. There was no need to appeal. A simple fix and reupload did the trick. Appeals are good when the rejection is given for more opinionated reasons, such as bad motive, rather than photo editing problems.
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Old 09-04-2005, 10:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
Thanks, I guess. I guess I always think what's the point of the appeal, he's already said "No" so why try and justify it if it doesn't fit what he was after anyways. Make sense?
There is a 99.9% chance that the person who rejected your photo will not be the same as the person who looks at your appeal. Everyone says that appeals are never accepted, but that is simply not the case, and if you DONT appeal, you will never know! You have a lot better chance of getting a shot in with an appeal than talking about the rejection here.
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:07 PM   #9
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I have used the appeal feature many times and have been very successful. Atleast 5 or 6 rejections that I appealed got in. Doesnt hurt to give it a try guys.
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Old 09-05-2005, 04:02 AM   #10
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I always thought appeals went to the top dog(s). I am at about 40% on appeals being accepted. It does work. And typically, there is some more explanation.
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Old 09-05-2005, 04:07 AM   #11
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Everyone says that appeals are never accepted, but that is simply not the case
Concur. I'm well above 50% on appeals. The key is in how you word your appeal and your attitude. If you go into confrontational, expect an upheld rejection...
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Old 09-05-2005, 01:13 PM   #12
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Using the appeal function is a chance to address elements of a photo you won't write into your comments. Like explaning lighting or why you disagree with the screener's rejection.

"Because I WANT it here!!!!!" won't fly.
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Old 09-13-2005, 05:18 PM   #13
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I just won an appeal and I didn't even do anything except say I didn't understand their bad angle comment and any help would be accepted. Approved! well uh ok, thanks!
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:24 PM   #14
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Appealing works. I got an unlevel horizon on this:

Image © Richard Hart
PhotoID: 118928
Photograph © Richard Hart


and I know it was level-this curve is very elevated. I explained that and it got accepted. My appeals get accepted ~40-50% of the time.

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Old 09-14-2005, 08:08 PM   #15
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0 for 2 on appeals. Don't really want to be a pain in the ass and appeal every rejection that I get.

Here's my latest appeal that was rejected. I fixed the issues from the first rejection then was rejected on appeal.

Yeah, I know- the nose is too dark.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=165153 (Distracting shadows and unlevel)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=165483 (problems fixed, but rejected for backlit and not enough light on nose)

Starting to think that I just don't have the "stuff" to get a good percentage of images approved here, that or I have the misfortune of living where the sun doesn't shine the way I want it to. Incidentally, I'm usually around 40% accepted on shots that I think will make it.
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Don't really want to be a pain in the ass and appeal every rejection that I get.
Well, that's why there's an appeal process. If the admin wanted to have the screener to have the final say with the rejection, there would be no option to appeal. I wouldn't worry about falling into the PITA column if you appeal for something every now and again on something you feel pretty strongly about. Now if you feel very strongly about every single rejection and appeal them, you might have the PITA label follow you around!

Quote:
Starting to think that I just don't have the "stuff" to get a good percentage of images approved here
Nonsense! I enjoy your stuff, Chuck, and with the 300D/70-200mm f/4.0L USM combo you use, you certainly have the equpiment "stuff" covered. So, I would venture a guess that it's not you.

Quote:
or I have the misfortune of living where the sun doesn't shine the way I want it to.
Yeah, that's the bane everywhere! Eastbounds in the PM, westbounds in the AM: it never fails. Or, the regularly scheduled trains run after the sun sets. Every day, the Empire Builder goes by my house at 0100L and at 0500L, but I'll never get a shot of it just because of where I live in relation to its schedule. But that's what keeps the hobby from stagnating. You've got to find creative ways around the sun, whether it be scouting new locations or thinking outside the box...
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
...You've got to find creative ways around the sun, whether it be scouting new locations or thinking outside the box...
Or just saying the hell with it and shoot in cloudy weather. That doesn't keep me home! 'specially in this area.

Case in point:

Image © Richard Hart
PhotoID: 112115
Photograph © Richard Hart


This originally got rejected-I just got an email from the NS Roanoke shops that they want to use this as a background for an employee presentation. Of course you know what my answer was...

Rich
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
with the 300D/70-200mm f/4.0L USM combo you use, you certainly have the equpiment "stuff" covered. So, I would venture a guess that it's not you.
Thanks for the encouragement, Ween, but it may in fact be me, as far as "stuff" is concerned. Having the greatest equipment in the world does someone little good, if they don't know how to operate it well.

I couldn't expect to get into a Ferrari and push it to the limit just because I can drive a car, nor would I expect someone who can only play chopsticks on the piano to be able to make a Steinway sing. These pricey enhancements for professionals can be had if you have the money (I don't), but in the end, the results are what separate the pros from the amateurs.

I've found that where professionals impress, and "oooh and aahhh" is they prove to be incredible with less than suitable cameras, cars, pianos, pool cues, etc, etc. I bet if Jeff Gordon got into my Mazda Protege he could drive the wheels off of it better than me, and I bet Oscar Peterson could dazzle an audience on my $800 Yamaha upright, and I bet Willie Mosconi could walk into a corner bar, pick up a warped cue and play on a pool table that's unlevel with worn out beer-stained cloth and dead rails and beat the pants off everyone in the room. Those are the abilities that divide the "best" from the "rest".

So forgive me for being down in the dumps and negative, but I guess I've just been contemplating and coming to the conclusion that I may never be able to acheive what I want in photography and that I'll never be as good as the Ray Lewis', the Michael Biehn's, the Robert Benkovitz's etc., etc. (just go to the editor's picks to see who I'm talking about)

Now some people may say, "what the #$&@ are you talking about, you're stuff is good, so shut up," but compared to what a professional can do, it's average to below average.

This leads me back to earlier when I said I don't have the "stuff". A professional photographer can get outstanding results with very little to work with. If you look at those rejects, I'm pretty sure a pro could make the less than desirable lighting situation work for him/her, sort of like how Beethoven composed the whole first movement of his Symphony No. 5 out of 4 notes, or how a great chef can make an outstanding meal out of my leftovers. Now that's genius combined with skill and experience.

So..........All I ask is to be acceptable, not brilliant. My goal is not to bring photography to the next level. I will never be able to do that, but I simply want to be happy with what I do. So, if receiving rejections upsets me, well, then I can only forgo submitting altogether and perhaps spare myself any more agonizing rejections, or I can simply keep on trying. We'll see.

To be continued...
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Old 09-15-2005, 12:53 AM   #19
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Now some people may say, "what the #$&@ are you talking about, you're stuff is good, so shut up," but compared to what a professional can do, it's average to below average.
Chuck,

You're expecting too much of yourself and your photography in an unreasonable way. One of the things I've been taught and practiced my whole life is to set real but attainable goals. Don't set unreasonable goals for yourself, or you'll always be disappointed.

But look at the key word in your statement above: "professional." They've been blessed with skills and talents in their area of expertise that you may never be able to possess. And that's something you have to be aware of. I mean, I could hit a mean curveball when I was in high school, but not to the extent that I could earn millions in the big leagues. I got to know my strengths and weaknesses in baseball and tired my best to maximize the former and minimize the latter. Bottom line, even though I couldn't hit the ball like Donny Baseball, I never allowed myself to compare my skills with his because I knew up front that if I did, it would only result in frustration.

Those of us who aren't naturally blessed with talent out the ying yang have to do it the old fashioned way: practice, practice, practice. I see many photos and I think, "Man, that's awesome. How'd they do that? I couldn't shoot anything that cool...yet." Yet. Just like I can't strap on a Gibson guitar and start wailing away like Angus Young from the get go, I can't go from enthusiastic hobby photographer to publish-quality professional photographer overnight. It takes time. It takes practice. It take patience.

You know, there are probably people out there who look at your shots and say, "Man, I wish I could take photos like that guy." I mean, you did have a Screener's Choice photo, right? I never had one of those. Many folks haven't. To get one of those you're doing something right. Don't be so hard on yourself. Trust your skills and thirst for ways to get better if that's your desire. Just don't expect results overnight...

BTW, I'd love to give Jeff Gordon a shot in my car. I'd have that whiny, crewchief-less, out-of-The-Chase-For-The-Cup worm crying with embarassment!!!!
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Old 09-15-2005, 02:46 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainmonster
-I just got an email from the NS Roanoke shops that they want to use this as a background for an employee presentation. Of course you know what my answer was...
Rich
Good job, man. I love those moody looking NS shots. I'm glad NS is gonna use it.
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Old 09-15-2005, 02:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAHDPOP
Good job, man. I love those moody looking NS shots. I'm glad NS is gonna use it.

Thanks! Much appreciated.
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Old 09-15-2005, 04:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainmonster
This originally got rejected-I just got an email from the NS Roanoke shops that they want to use this as a background for an employee presentation. Of course you know what my answer was...

Rich
I got the same e-mail from Roanoke regarding this one.

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