Old 12-14-2016, 05:39 PM   #1
RobJor
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Default Rule of Thirds

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...58&key=4907361



I originally had subject lower in the frame, maybe more centered but rejected so moved it to the top. Didn't really think putting the subject at the bottom with a lot of grey sky was the way to go. Not really seeing what I can do unless there are other problems that can be corrected. I have other shots of individual engines but I thought this wide view was interesting. Wasted this time so not inclined to dig around with other photos.
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:21 PM   #2
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Wild guess, not having seen the first rejection: the screener wanted a nudge, and you shoved the content all the way to the top. Probably where you want to be is much closer to the original than to this.

It's a cool shot. Mental note: when snow, museums!
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:30 PM   #3
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I rather like it, but the composition is a bit challenging. I think what I would do is make it less horizontal by cropping out the unit over on the left which doesn't really add anything, putting a bit more of that gray sky back in, and cropping out some of the snow in the foreground. If cropping the unit out creates composition issues, then I would do as Janusz suggests and just move it down a bit.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:39 AM   #4
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Thanks!

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PhotoID: 599422
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:42 PM   #5
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I'd appreciate comments about these two photo rejections for composition not compliant with rule of thirds. I don't get rejection images in my gallery so I attach screen shots of images submitted and e-mail notification text as follows:

Photo ID 1544273 was rejected from the database.
Railroad: KiwiRail
Locomotive: GE U26C C30-MMI DXB

Reason(s) for Rejection:

- Composition (Balance): The subject is awkwardly positioned in the frame. RailPictures.Net prefers that images are composed in keeping with the 'Rule of Thirds' meaning that, in most circumstances, the focal point of the image should not be directly in the center of the frame, or too close to any of the edges.

» http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...73&key=4676501
» Appeal Rejection: http://www.railpictures.net/members/...php?id=1544273

Photo ID 1544286 was rejected from the database.
Railroad: KiwiRail
Locomotive: RM

Reason(s) for Rejection:

- Composition (Balance): The subject is awkwardly positioned in the frame. RailPictures.Net prefers that images are composed in keeping with the 'Rule of Thirds' meaning that, in most circumstances, the focal point of the image should not be directly in the center of the frame, or too close to any of the edges.
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Old 01-02-2017, 02:13 AM   #6
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Waitakere: looks tight all around, and doesn't help that you have cut-off trackside elements on both the right and left edges - would have done well to expand on both sides. A bit more space on the left would be helpful.
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:00 PM   #7
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Thanks Janusz.

I did think about the signs and cropping out the one in front of the train but that would have violated the rule of thirds. There were distractions just out of frame both sides. If this shot was done differently I doubt this photo would have been received any better than as it is on Flickr.com so what difference could it make on RP apart from acceptance? As it was, it was rejected first time for color hue with no mention about the composition which remained the same.

As far as the rule of thirds is concerned, I don't see either image as being foul of it. I'd hate to think that most the viewers sit looking at the RP photo gallery with the rule of thirds grid in mind. It seems that this reason, how it is being applied sometimes, could be used to reject almost any image that fell into the category of "there's not a lot, if anything, wrong with your photo but we just don't want it here."
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ View Post

As far as the rule of thirds is concerned, I don't see either image as being foul of it. I'd hate to think that most the viewers sit looking at the RP photo gallery with the rule of thirds grid in mind. It seems that this reason, how it is being applied sometimes, could be used to reject almost any image that fell into the category of "there's not a lot, if anything, wrong with your photo but we just don't want it here."
John,

It seems that you are focusing solely on the rule of thirds, when the rejection reason is balance. I agree with Janusz' comments on the Waitakere photo, especially loosening it to the left. The other photo could also stand a good bit of loosening, while still meeting ROT criteria. There are many images that are accepted by RP that don't strictly adhere to the ROT, but have compositional balance. ROT is a good guideline for composition, but is not the make/break rule for acceptance to RP.

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Old 01-02-2017, 08:38 PM   #9
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Thanks Doug.

Probably right in what you say. Do you mean that there should be roughly the same distance from edge of frame each end of the train, generally speaking? I do normally try to do this anyway if appropriate.

I have tried to fully understand the rule of thirds which predated photography. Not sure I can even tell what or where exactly the focal point is some of the time and try to get the center of the leading locomotive nose on a grid intersection. Yes I have probably got way too far over to the analytical side having hundreds of "bad composition" or composition (balance) rejections before I could get on this forum. Many of the photographers I admire over here care little about all this; they take their shots how they want them, concentrating on finding great photo locations. Perhaps I need more balance!
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ View Post
Thanks Doug.

Probably right in what you say. Do you mean that there should be roughly the same distance from edge of frame each end of the train, generally speaking? I do normally try to do this anyway if appropriate.
I think that that philosophy applies to the Waitakere shot, but not I would not us it as the basis for most shots. I'm not sure why you like to shoot things so tight. If you shoot the original image looser, you can always tighten it up later on.

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I have tried to fully understand the rule of thirds which predated photography. Not sure I can even tell what or where exactly the focal point is some of the time and try to get the center of the leading locomotive nose on a grid intersection. Yes I have probably got way too far over to the analytical side having hundreds of "bad composition" or composition (balance) rejections before I could get on this forum. Many of the photographers I admire over here care little about all this; they take their shots how they want them, concentrating on finding great photo locations. Perhaps I need more balance!
It seems like you're concentrating on the train when thinking about balance. Trees, mountains, bridges, tunnels, buildings, signals, streams...they all play into the balance of a composition, and the train is but one element. Think about the ROT when composing, but don't obsess over it.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
It seems that this reason, how it is being applied sometimes, could be used to reject almost any image that fell into the category of "there's not a lot, if anything, wrong with your photo but we just don't want it here."
Hi John,

I couldn't agree with you more!!

I've seen great pictures that were rejected with "awkward composition", "too close to the edge" and similar reasons that, quite frankly, make no sense.

If I look at my own pictures on RP, more than half could have been rejected because the train is perfectly in the middle of the picture.
In the end, I just couldn't be bothered anymore and I gave up.
I do chuckle every now and then though when I see pictures with bad lighting, cut off trains, dark noses etc. etc. etc. that are accepted on RP.... it reminds me that screening here is indeed random and arbitrary.

I guess one has to accept that when uploading pictures on RP, I for one have decided that enough is enough..

Cheers

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Old 01-05-2017, 10:15 AM   #12
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Thanks Rene. Sad that you've given up submitting photos. Also that everyone else in this country has too as far as I can tell. It seems that it's just to difficult to get acceptance for most of them. One NZ member quipped on Facebook group that you just about need a heritage unit flying the US flag to get acceptance. Not true as I have proved about 200 times since. But it is getting more difficult even with heritage trains. Perhaps I do need to approach photography a little differently and I'm prepared to so long as I can work out what the RP way of taking a photo actually is.

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Old 01-05-2017, 04:17 PM   #13
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Thanks Rene. Sad that you've given up submitting photos. Also that everyone else in this country has too as far as I can tell. It seems that it's just to difficult to get acceptance for most of them. One NZ member quipped on Facebook group that you just about need a heritage unit flying the US flag to get acceptance. Not true as I have proved about 200 times since. But it is getting more difficult even with heritage trains. Perhaps I do need to approach photography a little differently and I'm prepared to so long as I can work out what the RP way of taking a photo actually is.

John, I'm having some trouble understanding your issues with RP; perhaps I am not paying enough detailed attention to all the threads. You have 490 shots on RP, so you know what you are doing. How is is now "getting more difficult"? Are you changing your style, and your new style does not suit RP? Are you shooting in less favorable light conditions?

The only shot of yours that is coming to mind is that roster shot of the single self powered car, or were there two?, in flat light. Not a shot on which I would stake a claim that RP is a problem to deal with. Not a bad shot, but not one I would say "I can't believe RP rejected this!"

Above you say "so long as I can work out what the RP way of taking a photo actually is". You have 490 shots on RP. It seems to me that you worked out the RP way a long time ago. I don't get it.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:57 PM   #14
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You need to seek therapy if you are tailoring your shooting style for this place.

As for the bias.. I'm sure there is. I have very little positive to say about foreign railroads because.. I'm not interested in them. Just kinda how it goes. It's not that I dislike them, I just don't care because I didn't grow up somewhere else.

I wouldn't submit to a foreign dominated railroad photography site and bitch because I'm not getting love for my crappy murica' train photos either Just realize the scene, and make a decision about whether or not it's worth it.

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Old 01-05-2017, 06:15 PM   #15
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Yes, it can sometimes seem that getting acceptance is harder than it really is, a point I was trying to make subtly. Each screener will have preferences and bias which I suspect particularly applies to foreign railroad shots which may rely on screener discretion (such as cloudy day photos.) It's not so much that the screening is inconsistent and random (as Rene and many others make a point of here) but as Jean-Marc and countless others claim there is a higher bar for foreign railroad photos. There are times I have had all photos submitted on a day accepted and other times all rejected and I believe the main reason is I got a different screener. A quick look at that Flickr.com group would indicate that the majority of rejections are foreign railroad photos which is the opposite of photos accepted on RP. But that's assuming those photos are actually all photos rejected by RP which can't be verified (or the reasons.) Refer to the thread about cloudy day photos with that rail motor photo for discussion about that group. I must accept the screening is what it is and I either just quit or I get better in how I present photos on RP. I'm no quitter.

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Old 01-05-2017, 06:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
You need to seek therapy if you are tailoring your shooting style for this place.

As for the bias.. I'm sure there is. I have very little positive to say about foreign railroads because.. I'm not interested in them. Just kinda how it goes. It's not that I dislike them, I just don't care because I didn't grow up somewhere else.

I wouldn't submit to a foreign dominated railroad photography site and bitch because I'm not getting love for my crappy murica' train photos either Just realize the scene, and make a decision about whether or not it's worth it.

Loyd L.
Yes you are right. And I don't expect much to change unless the site owners want more international focus and following. I doubt that. Yes most viewers want to see trains that they grew up with - that is normal almost anywhere. Having said this, I get a lot of appreciative comments, mail and even friendships and photo sales from this site, all from overseas. This and the forum feedback is helping me get better. And I think that makes it worthwhile. Thanks for your comments.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
You need to seek therapy if you are tailoring your shooting style for this place.

As for the bias.. I'm sure there is. I have very little positive to say about foreign railroads because.. I'm not interested in them. Just kinda how it goes. It's not that I dislike them, I just don't care because I didn't grow up somewhere else.

I wouldn't submit to a foreign dominated railroad photography site and bitch because I'm not getting love for my crappy murica' train photos either Just realize the scene, and make a decision about whether or not it's worth it.
I would hate for anyone to tailor their style of shooting for this place. That said, most of us have some pix that fit here. For me the real value of RP has been the nit picking, even if I often disagree. It has helped me understand better how some others view my stuff, and made me a better critic of my stuff. It has helped me pay more attention to certain details (like level). However, this place does demand a certain conformity, and that often conflicts with my own biases. So it is good to have your own gallery for your best stuff which probably does not conform.

While railfan photogs come in all flavors, in my experience the internet has helped the hobby become much more internationalized. And RP is a good example. When I go to rail photoshoots in various parts of the world, the folks who show up usually are a diverse international group. Some of the most fun I have had was with a bunch of Kiwis in China.

I started out a lot like Lloyd, not interested or caring about foreign stuff. But while common among Americans, once cured it opens up a lot of new and interesting things to enjoy. But I do agree most of the folks who post here are Yanks, so a lot of "foreign" (to us) stuff will lack the nostalgia or familiarity that is often key to what appeals to us and what we are comfortable with. I wouldn't call that bias so much as understanding this particular audience.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:03 AM   #18
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John, I'm having some trouble understanding your issues with RP; perhaps I am not paying enough detailed attention to all the threads. You have 490 shots on RP, so you know what you are doing. How is is now "getting more difficult"? Are you changing your style, and your new style does not suit RP? Are you shooting in less favorable light conditions?

The only shot of yours that is coming to mind is that roster shot of the single self powered car, or were there two?, in flat light. Not a shot on which I would stake a claim that RP is a problem to deal with. Not a bad shot, but not one I would say "I can't believe RP rejected this!"

Above you say "so long as I can work out what the RP way of taking a photo actually is". You have 490 shots on RP. It seems to me that you worked out the RP way a long time ago. I don't get it.
Perfectly said. John I think you need to relax a bit and try and enjoy your RP experience "again". Give up on the notion that as a "foreigner" you are getting the short end of the stick by the screening & admin staff and consider not looking to places like the Flickr group you have for support in your cause.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:20 AM   #19
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Thanks guys for your comments. Very true what you say John especially; it seems RP is all the better for having more quality foreign railroad photos being submitted and accepted. It's easy enough for those not interested to scroll past a few more of them.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:20 PM   #20
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I watch the que after I submit. Last evening I got one accepted and then submitted another one. No new ones till this morning and saw only 13 accepted, there had to be a good number waiting and only 13 new ones for viewers to look at, which seems a little counter productive for the site.

Of those 7 were non US, if you count 1 from Canada(smile), OK 6. I would think 13 would be tight screening.

My rejection for noise was fixed so edited.




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