Old 06-10-2008, 01:08 AM   #1
WKUrailfan
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Hey, so I took a picture of a lady on an Amtrak switcher, and she happened to be smoking. So then I get an rp.net email from someone saying this:

"Posting a picture of a railroader smoking on the job-site was a pretty piss-poor idea. I am almost 100% positive that Amtrak has a no-smoking policy or some form of discipline in place for it. As a railroader, I cannot tell you how much it irritates me when foamers unintentionally get us in trouble by broadcasting our follies for the whole world (including our bosses) to see in the internet. It would be smart to remove this photo. -Slimeskull"

So first of all, I didn't know railroaders weren't allowed to smoke on the job. I wouldn't have posted it if I had known it could have possibly gotten someone in trouble. But part of me feels like its not my problem that she's smoking in the picture. Why is she smoking in the middle of the busiest Amtrak yard in the nation?

So what do I do? Pull the picture?
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:11 AM   #2
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So what do I do? Pull the picture?[/quote]
Yea ,why there making a living at this, or pull it and rub the the pack and cig out.
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:18 AM   #3
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No dont rub the face out! She looks to good to have her face rubbed out.
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:20 AM   #4
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The fact that she's smoking on the job and knowingly breaking rules is NOT your problem. I mean, I got a speeding ticket in the company car today. But I'm not mad at the LEO. I was the one speeding. I wonder if this is the same "railroader" who caused Tom G. to pull his shot. If railroaders don't want pictures of themselves breaking the tules, don't break the rules.


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Old 06-10-2008, 01:20 AM   #5
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A number of us responded to the same question and posted our thoughts about the humnan side of railroading and when or when not to submit to RP:
http://forums.railpictures.net/showthread.php?t=7416
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKUrailfan
But part of me feels like its not my problem that she's smoking in the picture. Why is she smoking in the middle of the busiest Amtrak yard in the nation?
You answered your own question; it's not your problem. She chose to smoke in an area that was viewable by the public, not to mention her supervisors. That's her decision. No one compelled her to smoke, and no one compelled her to do it in full view of anyone and everyone.

Quote:
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So what do I do? Pull the picture?
I wouldn't. (But if you do, you'll bump me to most viewed of today. Is that divided loyalty?)
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKUrailfan
So first of all, I didn't know railroaders weren't allowed to smoke on the job

Neither did I, considering I see 'em smoking all the time. It's a dirty, blue collar job and seeing someone smoking while working doesn't seem out of the ordinary to me. What I can't believe is that she's twirling her nice blonde hair with that dirty finger. Eww.

WKU, I suppose you could have just cloned the cig out of her hand and there wouldn't be ANY controversy at all.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:04 AM   #8
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If every photograph was removed or not published because of something questionable in the subject matter or because of someone's complaint, then it would be impossible for photographers to publish their photos anywhere...

I am sure Union Station has video surveillance which would most likely be the first place bosses would check for wrongdoing, not RPN. That is besides the point though because it is your photograph of a public place and anyone in that photograph is responsible for their own actions, and your posting it should not be concerned with that...

I agree with the 6th comment, it is an important shot and I vote leave it up how it is

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Old 06-10-2008, 03:31 AM   #9
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I say leave it as is. It's not your responsibility to know the rules.

It would be like me pissing my pants, and blaming my wife for getting me the drink.

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Old 06-10-2008, 03:33 AM   #10
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Re-reading the e-mail from Slimeskull, it just feels a little too pat for me, like maybe you're being played. I don't know. It just feels like the work of a troll. I'm not asking for his e-,ail address, but does it seem like one that may be kept just for spamming and scamming someone?


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Old 06-10-2008, 03:34 AM   #11
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You could always call the safety hottie line and see if smoking is allowed. Maybe slimeskull just isn't allowed to smoke where he works.

Edit: Make that Hotline.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:43 AM   #12
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On NS you can't smoke in the cab, but I think what she was doing would be allowed. I don't smoke , so I'm not 100% sure how it reads, but like I said I'm pretty sure it says in cab of engine. I don't know about Amtrak, so there is a good chance she isn't breaking any rules. If I knew she was breaking a rule though I personally would photoshop the cig. out of the photo, but the decision is yours to make.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:16 PM   #13
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LOL! Interesting thread.

First of all, I wish more railroaders (and railfans!) looked like the cab crewmember in the photo being discussed.

Second, I apparently also raised a few eyebrows a couple of weeks ago when I caught a railroad crew "smoking". I posted a few shots of a steam tourist railroad and forwarded the links to a friend of mine who has "ties" to that railroad. He forwarded them to his buds at the RR because they enjoy seeing pix of their operation on this site. Well, one photo caught everyone's attention.

It seems that the locals at an exclusive marina just behind the train in this photo have raised a ruckus in the past about "smoking" in the vicinity of their marina....and the railroad consequently implemented some pretty stiff rules about having an absolutely clean stack passing that site.

Image © Kevin Madore
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Photograph © Kevin Madore


Oooooops!

Hopefully, no one got in trouble over it. I personally appreciated the nice plume

Anyway, as others have stated, there's no way we can anticipate ALL of the possible consequences of the shots we post here. Folks need to understand that we post them with the best of intentions. As I said earlier, I think most railroaders enjoy seeing their work being featured here.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:43 PM   #14
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Well, not only is she smoking in the public eye, but also those of her coworkers and supervisors. Keep it on.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:36 PM   #15
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There was a photo uploaded today of a crew shoving a tank car and the two guys on the point are braking a rule.
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:31 AM   #16
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What rule were they breaking?

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©

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Old 06-11-2008, 05:29 AM   #17
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I would say keep the shot on. Unless you work for a railroad you can not be expected to know every single rule. IMO It's the employee's responsibility to know the rules and follow them. If the employee choses to break the rules then they should take responsibility for their actions. Chances are if anyone of importance at Amtrak was going to see the shot they would have seen it by now anyway. Why ruin it for the rest of us?
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:37 AM   #18
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My vote is the photo should remain in the database. If any stuff member chooses to disregard company policy in a public area, that is their problem. These days, Big Brother is watching everywhere, so if a rail enthusiast camera didn't photograph this person, a CCTV camera certainly would have!

This photograph of an EMU taken at Sunshine came under fire at Railpage Australia a few years ago.

Image © Michael James
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An incorrect (automated) annoucement was made that the Ipswich train would arrive on Platform Two. When the train arrived on Platform One, passengers began to cross the tracks to board the train whilst the Tilt Train was approaching and the crossing bells ringing. The Guard of the train (pictured with his head poking out the crew door halfway down the train on the non-platform side) cared more about his precious timetable and gave right of way thus leaving half of the passengers behind.

One particular person, who is now a railway staff member, told me that I had quite a hide and was deliberately trying to get people sacked. I feel that online is a guttless method of confronting someone with an issue, so I did it in person using far less words than I would have online.

The same applies to those who carrying on about ring-fencing and 'commerical in confidence' information. Once the train is out on the main line, it is not confidential anymore - I just happened to be in the right place at the right time!
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ
One particular person, who is now a railway staff member, told me that I had quite a hide and was deliberately trying to get people sacked. I feel that online is a guttless method of confronting someone with an issue, so I did it in person using far less words than I would have online.
If you allegedly had a dislike for that particular QR staff member and wished for them to be sacked, it would have been great timing for you to have been at Sunshine when that incident occurred! I take it that nobody was disciplined or sacked over it?


Back to the original subject, has anybody else ever had an occurrence when they had a shot lined up, and they ever decided not to take or not to post it as someone committing an illegal activity was visible? I have had one instance at Glenroy, VIC when I had a shot of a suburban set leaving lined up, but as it left there happened to be a number of children riding on the back coupler. Spoilt my photo!

In the case of a railway employee violating policy, I would still post it. I have an image of a Connex driver at Victoria Park, VIC giving me a rude gesture with his middle finger for taking a photo of his electric train. Unfortunately it is not quite RailPictures quality.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody in the WWW
If you allegedly had a dislike for that particular QR staff member and wished for them to be sacked, it would have been great timing for you to have been at Sunshine when that incident occurred! I take it that nobody was disciplined or sacked over it?
That's just it ... I wouldn't know the person from a bar of soap. The person who so boldly accused me of trying to get this particular Guard sacked couldn't get it through their head that there was no mallice what so ever.

I don't know if anyone was disciplined or not ... my guess would be no they weren't.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalua10
What rule were they breaking?

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©
I don't know the exact rule number, but when someone is protecting a shove they are ride on the side of cars, ONLY. If something happened to the train and you were on the front, you could be knocked off and run over by your own train. You can however ride the front/rear of a car if you on the rear of the train (being pulled).

Also, I'm not sure on the particulars of a tank car, but the conductor on the right is most likely braking another rule. When riding a covered hopper you must NOT ride inside the crevice between the walkway and the side of the actual hopper. I wouldn't be surprised if sitting on the air brake mechanism would equate to the same thing.

At least, that's how it is done over here in GCOR land, but you east coasters tend to do things a bit differently.

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Old 07-04-2008, 03:33 PM   #22
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I read this thread some time ago and tended to agree with the "It's not your fault she's smoking" line of thought. Although we ought not to go out of our way to get railway staff into trouble, if they are caught on a legitimate photo doing something they shouldn't, then they should bear any consequnces.

However, I have to say that I feel uncomfortable about this shot, recently uploaded that was taken only 12 months ago.
Image © Steve Armitage
PhotoID: 241361
Photograph © Steve Armitage

It's a good pair of merged photos and Steve tells a good story in the remarks column.

However, it certainly seems that the signalman gave unauthorised access to the photographer. Whilst the names of the location have been blurred out, for someone who knows the location and the signalman, it can't be difficult to work it out. The signalman is plainly recognisable.

This guy was obviously very helpful (and good for him I say), but his bosses may not see it that way. We already have enough problems with railway staff and hierarchy with our hobby as it is. If seen by "the suits from Network Rail" this photo could result in some heat for the signalman and some memos floating around reminding staff to keep us guys out.

Much as I like the shot, I can't help feeling that it would have been better not shared so publicly.

Perhaps Janet may have some ideas of what NR might say?

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Old 07-04-2008, 04:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willig
It's a good pair of merged photos and Steve tells a good story in the remarks column.
Putting aside the issue you raise, I am very much surprised to see a pair of side by side shots accepted at RP! Was there something the screener saw in this one, or is this now acceptable here? I've had one or two ideas of this nature that I have pursued for my own enjoyment; never thought it would be RP-appropriate.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKUrailfan
So what do I do? Pull the picture?
First, anybody sending me an e-mail and not using there name, (unless Slimeskull, is there name, which pretty much sums it up ) can go scratch.

Second, if thats the rule and she's breaking it, to bad,
he states "broadcasting our follies" is that another way of saying when we break the rules, did slimeskull ever think that maybe there's a reason for not smoking? like maybe there's flamable liquids in the area?

When we have to remove a picture because it might get somebody in trouble, (thats breaking a rule)thats called censorship.

thats my 2 cents
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:38 PM   #25
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Fair enough for the first shot.
However, my point with the latest photo is not about breaking the rules, it's about spoiling things for the rest of us.
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