Old 11-21-2007, 10:07 PM   #1
BartY
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Default Time to put the laser level away guys...

Screeners,

You cannot automatically assume that every telephone pole, signal mast, etc., is perfectly straight. If you're going to reject a picture on "unlevel horizon" when there is no hard horizon line anywhere in the shot, please leave a comment about which way you *think* it is off. It is frustrating to get picture after picture rejected for "unlevel horizion" when it looks OK on this end. Which brings me to another point, if it is so minor that the average person can't spot it, then perhaps you're looking too hard.

Allow me to bring your attention to this shot:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=696066517

Several elements in the shot are *technically* straight, such as the dwarf signal on the right, the doors on the autorack and the telephone pole.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:13 PM   #2
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To me, it looks like it needs a CCW rotation. I used the signals to determine it (unless they're really tilted like that). I'd try an appeal in situations like this.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:14 PM   #3
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Glad to see that it got in.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartY
Screeners,

You cannot automatically assume that every telephone pole, signal mast, etc., is perfectly straight.

A bit impatient, no? And trashing the screeners over one image, stating they "automatically assume..." this and that? I think the screeners have thought closely about this, and they have plenty of experience. Ease up, and for that matter next time at least wait until there is a rejected appeal. That's why the appeal process is there, in case the first screener makes a mistake.

If anything, at least in these forums, some of us would argue they are too lax on rotation from time to time.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
A bit impatient, no? And trashing the screeners over one image, stating they "automatically assume..." this and that? I think the screeners have thought closely about this, and they have plenty of experience. Ease up, and for that matter next time at least wait until there is a rejected appeal. That's why the appeal process is there, in case the first screener makes a mistake.

If anything, at least in these forums, some of us would argue they are too lax on rotation from time to time.
A little constructive criticism won't hurt. My point is if I can't see it at a 300% zoom, then they need to be a little more careful before hitting the button in the first place.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:43 PM   #6
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I'm actually OK with them getting tougher on level issues. You can appeal them when they're wrong, but once the image is in the database, most folks -- maybe none of us, but then again -- will not resubmitt the shot. If I expected every shot I take to get in the database, I'd actually be submitting to Railroad Picture Archives and not RP.

All of this said without benefit of seeing your shot in question.


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Old 11-21-2007, 10:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
All of this said without benefit of seeing your shot in question.
Yeah, I'd like to see it as well. Seems as though that photo must have been really damn good to spark a thread like this.
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:25 PM   #8
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Image © Bart Youngblood
PhotoID: 212831
Photograph © Bart Youngblood

Here was the photo in question.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:23 AM   #9
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Look at how crooked that loco is! Of COURSE it's unlevel!



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Old 11-22-2007, 12:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
You cannot automatically assume that every telephone pole, signal mast, etc., is perfectly straight...Which brings me to another point, if it is so minor that the average person can't spot it, then perhaps you're looking too hard.
Well, if the screener's can't automatically assume every telephone pole et al is straight (which they don't), how can you automatically assume that the average person can't spot an unlevel shot? That door swings both ways...

BTW, your rant isn't really constructive criticism. What you did do that was positive was to validate that the appeal process works...
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:36 PM   #11
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Did you try the "Comments to Screeners" box when submitting? Seems like this would have been a good time to use it to let them know what isn't straight.

Happy Thanksgiving,

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Old 11-22-2007, 06:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang11
Did you try the "Comments to Screeners" box when submitting? Seems like this would have been a good time to use it to let them know what isn't straight.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Brian
Thanks, Brian, you saved me a bunch of typing! I've seen plenty of issues that could have been avoided if the contributor had just taken a few moments to explain the "why" or "how" about their photo that the screeners cannot see.

FYI, Bart, screeners use the center-most vertical line in an image to judge whether it is level. In your case you can clearly tell the line on the yellow autorack is perfectly up-and-down and therefore is level. Of course there are cases that need a little more thought and observation and are handled accordingly. Personally, I use the lines on the train more than lineside objects because the majority of the photos I see the train is the subject as 'needs' to appear level. Just a little insight on how things are really run.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:22 PM   #13
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I too try and use the center line of a car in the middle of the image. Or, I look for something in the image I know is straight. The problem is is that some images was banking on a curve was rejected for being unlevel and I had to rotate it to a unnatural angle to get it approved losing the true angle. I rarely get a unlevel rejection anymore. Once I did get one rejected for being off less than .1 degree! LOL
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:01 PM   #14
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I used said box to explain that a shot was taken on an elevated curve and appeared crooked. The shot was rejected, so I appealed and put in the reason box "as stated on the upload, shot was taken on an elevated curve"
The response I got back on denial was rather blunt: "It doesnt matter what you typed in the box, background elements dont lean 2 degrees." What a smart assed response. One thing for sure, I'll never appeal another photo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang11
Did you try the "Comments to Screeners" box when submitting?
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Save The Wave
What a smart assed response. One thing for sure, I'll never appeal another photo.
The screeners have done a lot of good things here, and have accepted, on appeal, many fine shots. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?

One bad experience isn't even a pattern!
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Thanks, Brian, you saved me a bunch of typing! I've seen plenty of issues that could have been avoided if the contributor had just taken a few moments to explain the "why" or "how" about their photo that the screeners cannot see.
I do this every time I submitt a shot taken with the wide angle. For that matter, if I see a pole that is crooked, I will point it out and migt add that while the pole is crooked, the building on the other side of the shot is not. It works most times, but once or twice a screener replied back and noted something I had missed.


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Old 11-23-2007, 12:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Save The Wave
One thing for sure, I'll never appeal another photo.
That'll show 'em for sure! Look, screeners can be wrong. Lord knows there's been times I have no idea what they're talking about. But photographers can be wrong too. Without seeing your photo, I'm not sure which is the case here. But just because you put a comment in the box does not men they will accept it and for that matter doesn't mean you're right either.

Cooler heads always prevail. A few times of calling the screeners names tends to get people kicked off the site.

So I guess the better way of saying that in this case is that "Screeners always prevail."


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Old 11-23-2007, 01:21 PM   #18
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I couldn't count the number of times I have heard people refer to this site as RailPrix. They're entitled to their opinion I guess, but not everyone wants to hear it!

If your photograph is not accepted here, try to improve it or upload it to an alternative site like Flickr.
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ
I couldn't count the number of times I have heard people refer to this site as RailPrix. They're entitled to their opinion I guess, but not everyone wants to hear it!
Haven't heard railprix, but I DO hear railpicky. But without being picky, rp would be just another dumping ground for bad railroad pics...ala rrarchives.
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