Old 07-21-2008, 11:45 PM   #1
Arne H. B.
Senior Member
 
Arne H. B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 171
Default When is backlit appropriate?

Last week I got my first glint shot in and now I've become a bit more interested in photos that are backlit. I understand how a glint shot works, and I know what perfect light is, but how do you get a backlit photo that is during daytime hours in? A few examples:
Image © Tim Stevens
PhotoID: 242843
Photograph © Tim Stevens

Image © Steve Schmollinger
PhotoID: 224244
Photograph © Steve Schmollinger

Image © Craig Williams
PhotoID: 243425
Photograph © Craig Williams

I am not calling out the photogs or the screeners on this, I am really interested in what technically has to be achieved for these to work. Is it simply perfect noselight and the side can be all shadows, or is there more to it than that? I "pre-rejected" this myself for having zero noselight, but is this about it minus the lack of noselight? I'm interested because I've learned that some places never have perfect light in January or July, so a backlit photo might be the answer, and it is a new challenge. Thanks for any advice.
ps this photo hasn't been processed at all, no need to kick it for that!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	UPmeet at Giant.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	409.6 KB
ID:	3112  
Arne H. B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 11:58 PM   #2
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,734
Default

I'm still learning this new idea as well!

Generally speaking, shadowed side rail shots have been a worthless cause for me. I've had a bit of recent success with "un-perfect" light recently

Image © Loyd Lowry
PhotoID: 242392
Photograph © Loyd Lowry

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


The first two were dead on nose light, that I tried to incorporate more than just a train into. The last one was an early morning shot that I was testing out trackside. Course all 3 have lacking views, and no comments, so maybe I'm not onto anything special

I would think that having a good scene would supercede the shadows, although perfect nose light from the midwest does seem to work too.

Looking forward to the experts take on this though!

Loyd L.
__________________
Social Media elevates the absurd and mediocre to a point where they aren't anymore, and that is a tragedy.

My personal photography site

Last edited by bigbassloyd; 07-22-2008 at 12:01 AM.
bigbassloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:44 AM   #3
KevinM
Senior Member
 
KevinM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,008
Default

Arne,

Thanks for asking that question....and doing it so very diplomatically too. I have also observed some very pretty backlit or dark-sided shots in the data base and have wondered what the magic recipe is.

Time for one of the big guns to step up and hold a clinic for us!
__________________
/Kevin

My RP stuff is here.

Link to my Flickr Albums. Lots of Steam Railroad stuff there from all over the US.
KevinM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:20 AM   #4
trainboysd40
Senior Member
 
trainboysd40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta on the CP Laggan Subdivision
Posts: 2,048
Send a message via MSN to trainboysd40
Default

Well the first one is pretty obvious, it's one of Tim's shots that isn't CN...
__________________
got a D5 IIi and now he doesnt afread fo 12800 iSO
Youtube (Model Railway, Vlogs, Tutorials, and prototype)
My Website
Obligatory link to shots on RP, HERE
trainboysd40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:21 AM   #5
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,898
Default

Arnie;

Look at theshots you posted again. What do they all have in common with one antoher? Answer that question and you'll find that one way to get a side lit shot into the database is to shoot almost dead on the nose.


Joe
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:28 AM   #6
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
Look at theshots you posted again. What do they all have in common with one antoher? Answer that question and you'll find that one way to get a side lit shot into the database is to shoot almost dead on the nose.
The first and third of Arne's exemplars have the nose framed in darkeness on all sides, giving it a strong emphasis.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:41 AM   #7
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
Arnie;

Look at theshots you posted again. What do they all have in common with one antoher?
The second and third are standard scenery backlit wedgies? Or rather, the common type of wedgie shot we see rejected here all the time?

Last edited by JimThias; 07-22-2008 at 01:44 AM.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:43 AM   #8
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,040
Default

The shots you show are all nose lit. While the sides of the train are dark, the nose is lit gloriously.

The sample shot you show the nose is also very dark.

Another thing is the way the shots are done... so that the lit part of the subject (the nose) is the subject of the photo. In the sample you attached, the subject of the photo is the entire train, which is dark.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 06:26 AM   #9
Mustang11
Senior Member
 
Mustang11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Deep River, CT
Posts: 131
Default

I would vote nose light and interesting composition/background is key. I was actually worried about this shot (it is kinda the opposite, side light but no nose light) but it made, in part due to the composition I believe.

Image © Brian Beisser
PhotoID: 240625
Photograph © Brian Beisser


I have also seen a number of curve shots similar to Loyd's first shot where the close side is dark, but the nose and other side are well lit. That I think is more a gamble for acceptance however a good number do get in.

Image © Brian Beisser
PhotoID: 199577
Photograph © Brian Beisser


Brian
__________________
"If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera" - Lewis Hine

My RailPictures.net Photos -- My fotopic.net Photos
Graphic Design & Photography portfolio site
Mustang11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 07:47 AM   #10
ottergoose
American Gunzel
 
ottergoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 1,626
Send a message via AIM to ottergoose Send a message via Yahoo to ottergoose
Default

Curve + Nose Light + Scenery = No Worries

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Thias tried to get the forum going w/ this topic in another thread somewhere... but nobody seemed to bite. I think it's interesting - if you start posting here as a n00b you get conditioned to only pull the trigger when the sun's lighting all of the trucks nicely.
__________________
Nick Benson | Pictures | Website | Flickr | Profile | JetPhotos | Twitter
ottergoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 11:16 AM   #11
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottergoose
I think it's interesting - if you start posting here as a n00b you get conditioned to only pull the trigger when the sun's lighting all of the trucks nicely.
You get conditioned to learn the "rules" or the principles that TEND to make for better shots, and down the road you figure out when to break them!

I think that sequence is pretty good in the long run, even though a few shots might be missed early on in one's shooting "career."
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:40 PM   #12
Arne H. B.
Senior Member
 
Arne H. B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 171
Default

A train in a curve is just about a shoe-in no matter which side the light is...as long as you have nose light. Rules are made to be broken though:
Image © Arne Brown
PhotoID: 200676
Photograph © Arne Brown

And it's a going away shot to boot but since the light is on the back of the train maybe that is the equivalent to having nose light, if that makes sense.
Another photo of mine that has the shadow on my side:
Image © Arne Brown
PhotoID: 242100
Photograph © Arne Brown

But you can't see any of the train from this angle, so I'm not sure that counts.
This one had zero nose light but got accepted:
Image © Arne Brown
PhotoID: 205333
Photograph © Arne Brown


I'm glad I got some tips and insight here, I'll be scouting around for some potential locations to shoot a few more that might work. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Arne H. B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:38 PM   #13
Wizzo
Senior Member
 
Wizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 545
Default

Its difficult to quantify what backlit shots will and won't make it onto the site. Its a combination of the train, scenery, composition and light.

A few of my examples

Image © Stephen Dance
PhotoID: 234571
Photograph © Stephen Dance


Image © Stephen Dance
PhotoID: 215702
Photograph © Stephen Dance



This one took a lot of post processing and resubmissions before it was accepted
Image © Stephen Dance
PhotoID: 226527
Photograph © Stephen Dance
__________________
STEVE

Press here to see my pics on railpictures.net

More pics here D1059 on Flickr
Wizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #14
KevinM
Senior Member
 
KevinM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,008
Default

Here are two sweet examples of truly backlit shots...same railroad...same day.

Image © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
PhotoID: 231181
Photograph © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)

Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 221040
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


Neither one has ANY serious nose-light...other than a headlight, yet and both are great pictures. I'm not experienced enough to think I can shoot something like this on the spur of the moment and get good results....which is why you'd see me looking for a more conventional shot in this situation. Maybe it helps when you already have all of the conventional shots!
__________________
/Kevin

My RP stuff is here.

Link to my Flickr Albums. Lots of Steam Railroad stuff there from all over the US.
KevinM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 05:33 PM   #15
alexramos
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Default

Most of those shots posted are sidelit, not backlit. Here's an example of a backlit scene.

Take Care,
Alex Ramos
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BNSF6333.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	228.2 KB
ID:	3129  
alexramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 01:41 AM   #16
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottergoose
Curve + Nose Light + Scenery = No Worries

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Thias tried to get the forum going w/ this topic in another thread somewhere... but nobody seemed to bite.
Yeah, I still don't quite understand how some basic wedgie shots with dark sides (like the two I mentioned above) get in while others that are identical get rejected (as we see here so often). I've yet to submit a dark sided wedgie, but I'm thinking of going with this one, ala the curve + nose light + country scenery:



But since I don't have those nice rock formations, I'm sure it'll get rejected.

Last edited by JimThias; 07-23-2008 at 01:43 AM.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.