Old 03-28-2018, 12:39 AM   #1
Dennis A. Livesey
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Talking Great photo! But...

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Great photo!

But I can't like it because it is not real.

(Just busting my friend's chops)

Still, all that talk about the shot must be real in order to like it?

S'plain, please.

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Old 03-28-2018, 03:34 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 653019
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Great photo!

But I can't like it because it is not real.

(Just busting my friend's chops)

Still, all that talk about the shot must be real in order to like it?

S'plain, please.

I personally, and most that participated in your earlier thread, never said we do not like "fake" shots. Just that without noting the image was not as seen... or at least as captured in the camera, it was not appropriate (or perhaps even welcome) for posting or publishing on a forum nor periodical where the assumption is - that's real.

Now - I must admit, this properly noted edit does not reflect what neither I saw nor what my camera captured. In that respect, it really does not "belong" on a database like RP. Had I captured it in multiple exposures and noted so - I think it would qualify. As is - well, some slip through and I'm happy to have the "fake" shot on RP with notation. And besides, Chris's shot was excepted earlier in 2017 - ironically it even got an SC.

Funny thing is - I would like to think since it was done by physically placing subjects in position, rather then digitally placing or creating them, a waiver would be appropriate, but that reasoning no doubt risks opening a flood gate of a plethora of well timed, albeit, fake pics - meets primarily that never happened for instance - yet no doubt those slip through.

My quandary is - why are so few seemingly intrigued nor impressed? Even with an SC and a PC Chris's shot garned mid 30's in "favorites", and like my own, relatively few comments. I think it could be that A) Steam on a diesel biased site B) Few know that the two "M" Class N&W 4-8-0's in existence do not co-reside at Strasburg C) Maybe the audience really does not care for "fake" photos D) The inclusion of Moon in my shot photobombed an otherwise perfectly impressive side by side shot of two Mastodons!

O' speaking of "fake" - thank you Mr Link, for the views ; )

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Old 03-28-2018, 11:57 AM   #3
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Sorry, no tears from me for under appreciated steam. My sad little foray into the past garnered relatively little interest dimming my desire to dig further.

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Old 03-28-2018, 12:41 PM   #4
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Sorry, no tears from me for under appreciated steam. My sad little foray into the past garnered relatively little interest dimming my desire to dig further.

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It has to be the lack of exposure to steam. Still photos only hint at the visual interest of steam. Maybe if they watched some good steam DVDs...

I do like diesels as well, despite the the foulness from their exhausts. I can't really explain it.
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:56 PM   #5
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Sorry, no tears from me for under appreciated steam. My sad little foray into the past garnered relatively little interest dimming my desire to dig further.

Image © Robert Jordan
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Bob Jordan
Please post your older South African photos if you still have more Rob. There are some of us who appreciate seeing new and unseen retro photos from home.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:06 PM   #6
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.......

My quandary is - why are so few seemingly intrigued nor impressed? ....
/Mitch
For me, a train is a train regardless if its steam or diesel, I want to shot it, see it and ride it. To answer your question, I think the problem with steam is, its either a staged situation or its at a known tourist attraction, here in the states its no longer "normal" see these beauties just out and about, naturally. I love the steam shots but when I see them all I can think about or "dream" is how was it back in the day?
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
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Great photo!

But I can't like it because it is not real.

(Just busting my friend's chops)

Still, all that talk about the shot must be real in order to like it?

S'plain, please.

At least he didn't attempt to make the moon huge and lie about it.

Loyd L.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:53 PM   #8
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My quandary is - why are so few seemingly intrigued nor impressed? Even with an SC and a PC Chris's shot garned mid 30's in "favorites", and like my own, relatively few comments. I think it could be that A) Steam on a diesel biased site B) Few know that the two "M" Class N&W 4-8-0's in existence do not co-reside at Strasburg C) Maybe the audience really does not care for "fake" photos D) The inclusion of Moon in my shot photobombed an otherwise perfectly impressive side by side shot of two Mastodons!

O' speaking of "fake" - thank you Mr Link, for the views ; )

/Mitch
I think that in general, night shots garner fewer views than daytime scenes. Someone mentioned that steam scenes always look staged, which of course, is true, but in my view, none look more staged than ones done at night. Sure, once in a while, you'll see a night shot that's really well done.....not blown away with flashes, but just the right amount and color of light to almost look like ambient yard or station lighting, with even coverage.....no pools of light on the ground, etc. But such shots are the exception, not the norm. Too many night shots just scream: "Hey, I bought some Killer Bees!" There's definitely a learning curve to doing night shots that attract the clicks, and few have mastered it. Certainly not me.

In the case of Mitch's shot, I think it's really well-done, but as he notes, we've seen the basic scene in the recent past, and it got a fair amount of attention at the time. Unfortunately, the audience here is a bit jaded. If a thumb shows up that they think they've seen before, they often don't click on it. The recent Southern Charter down at TVRM is a great example. One would think that shots of 630 and 4501 with freight would garner a lot of views, because 95% of all of the previous images of those engines were of regular passenger ops. The truth is that a lot of the charter images are having difficulty breaking 500 views.....except perhaps, the ones with ladies in them.
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:33 PM   #9
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...I think the problem with steam is, its either a staged situation or its at a known tourist attraction...
Hey, ain't nothing more realistic than clean clothes in a steam shop! Not even two properly made-up young ladies looking for a rat in the dark recesses of the train shed with a kerosene lantern

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Old 03-28-2018, 08:05 PM   #10
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...

In the case of Mitch's shot, I think it's really well-done, but as he notes, we've seen the basic scene in the recent past, and it got a fair amount of attention at the time. Unfortunately, the audience here is a bit jaded. If a thumb shows up that they think they've seen before, they often don't click on it. The recent Southern Charter down at TVRM is a great example. One would think that shots of 630 and 4501 with freight would garner a lot of views, because 95% of all of the previous images of those engines were of regular passenger ops. The truth is that a lot of the charter images are having difficulty breaking 500 views.....except perhaps, the ones with ladies in them.
I love steam, love looking at it, shooting it and working on it (albeit in a smaller scale than portrayed in the recent rash of "Lerro production" shots). I do agree with what Kevin and others have said about the jaded audience and the night shots. Personally though it's more than that. There's something about the steam experience that's hard to do justice for with a two-dimensional image. It's not just the sight but the smells of the exhaust (whether coal, wood or oil) mixed in with hot lube oil, the heat coming off the boiler and firebox that feels arid even on a rainy day and the wafts of steam in my face. The sounds of hissing and chugging and clanking and wheezing that all come together to give one the impression that a steam locomotive is indeed a living beast. It's hard for a photograph to educe those feeling, but don't let that stop you from shooting them! Well okay everybody, maybe you CAN stop taking those phony "Rosie" shots already!
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:30 PM   #11
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Hey, ain't nothing more realistic than clean clothes in a steam shop! Not even two properly made-up young ladies looking for a rat in the dark recesses of the train shed with a kerosene lantern

Image © Axel Bozier
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This was the first time I've seen the Rosies out in completely clean garb. Normally, their clothing is pre-treated with cinders, soot and grease, as is their make-up. I actually saw Pete rolling their clothing on the floor of the Strasburg Rail Road Shop on one occasion. Plenty of grease and oil there.

I noticed the squeaky clean "look" when I was editing the only Rosie shot that I posted.....so I wrote my caption accordingly....because yeah, the ladies looked too clean to be "taking a break" in the middle of a work day:

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Old 03-29-2018, 01:20 AM   #12
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At least he didn't attempt to make the moon huge and lie about it.

Loyd L.
Hahaha! Here all these years later we are still talking about that one
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:09 AM   #13
Dennis A. Livesey
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I understand that the "fake vs real" discussion was alive the night before the recent Lerro charter.

That argument will forever be with us as long as there is more than one fan on the planet.

On the matter of views...

It is all about the content and the timing. Once we let our babies out into the world, they have a life of their own that we cannot control. They are at the mercy of public opinion.

As so often here, it is not how difficult or unusual the shot is, if the shot does not catch the public imagination AT THE RIGHT TIME, it gets unnoticed no matter how incredible it is.

Conversely, even insanely, not-so-hot shots get huge views. WHY???

The answer is it catches the public at the right time. That is all that is to it.

Last week I went out into the snow here in NYC. I got about 3 shots I liked. I posted the one I thought the least of.

It took off. Screeners choice. Over 5K views.

Image © Dennis A. Livesey
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Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey



I tried to follow up the tide with this one I thought pretty good. The result? No badge and views less than 600.


Image © Dennis A. Livesey
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Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey



Go figure.

That is the mystery of what we do.

So mind me when I say, "If you get a winner, ride it son, ride it!"
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:38 AM   #14
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Perhaps obvious, but, have to ask? was he standing next to you, this is a play off an earlier thread.

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The burnt out orange around the headlights of the second is a little of a giveaway but it does match the sky.

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777

Not sure, was this a comment you received for a different photo? but could apply to the second???

Bob
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:57 PM   #15
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I would have loved to see a shot like this from the late 70's where all the cars were covered with graffitti, and you would actually be risking your life to take the picture in this spot.

NYC during the "warriors" days
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:44 PM   #16
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So, the $64,000 question is: Does Dennis know Eugene? I have often wondered, as they tend to shoot similar-looking scenes. In this case, they were clearly at the same station at the same time on the same day, watching the same trains. They must have at least seen each other.
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Old 03-30-2018, 01:20 AM   #17
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Perhaps obvious, but, have to ask? was he standing next to you, this is a play off an earlier thread.

Image © Eugene Armer
PhotoID: 653017
Photograph © Eugene Armer


The burnt out orange around the headlights of the second is a little of a giveaway but it does match the sky.

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777

Not sure, was this a comment you received for a different photo? but could apply to the second???

Bob
Eugene and I have been friends for a couple years now. We live in on the Upper East Side of Manhattan only a few blocks from each other.

Yes, indeed we were standing next to each other. He is an excellent shooter and a great guy. (He must be to put up with my sense of humor)

"The puddle of orange" refers to this shot:

Image © Dennis A. Livesey
PhotoID: 524268
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey


In spite of that observation, this photo went on to be the two-page centerfold for Trains magazine, October 2016.

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Old 03-30-2018, 01:23 PM   #18
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Eugene and I have been friends for a couple years now. We live in on the Upper East Side of Manhattan only a few blocks from each other.
LOL! I figured as much. It was just too much of a coincidence that the two of you seem to shoot very similar scenes. Every time I see an NYC transit image, I am pretty sure it is from one of you or the other. I assume that you met trackside after seeing each other numerous times? Otherwise, in NYC, you could live next door to the guy and never meet him. Great that you have a buddy who is interested in photographing a type of railroading that doesn't normally get that much coverage. Can't beat the back-drop you guys have for this sunset stuff.
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