Old 06-30-2012, 03:10 AM   #1
Joe the Photog
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Default I'm stumped on this one

Had a massive fire in my neck of the woods today near the CSX yard in Cayce and caught this train switching while it burned in the background. First up is a crop of the scene. I've cropped several shots similiar to this in the yard the smoke.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...50&key=9425529

But it got Composition/Balance. So I went back to what was my original idea in the first place and did not crop. Again, I got B/C

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...54&key=1597585

Any ideas?
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:57 AM   #2
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My .02

I think if you stepped to your left more bringing the smoke and the train closer together it may have worked better.

Opening the picture, the eyes go for the smoke on the left and then realize there is a train over on the right. Not much to look at in the middle between the two.

It's still a "not everyday this happens shot" and that should be worth something.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:03 AM   #3
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I was shooting around poles and other stuff. These two got PEQ.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...77&key=2491054
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...46&key=1554623

Of these two, I prefer the second one which I submitted first of the four. I don't understand the PEQ as other folks submitt wildfire shots and they get accepted. It's not a perveived trespassing issue since I get a lot of shots accepted from this same public spot.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:41 AM   #4
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I need a stronger well upon which to bang my head.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...82&key=1996752
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:55 AM   #5
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Here's a question that doesn't really touch on the composition rejection, though does for the PEQ -

Why do you even want to upload shots like that?

Seems you are view-hunting and not really after posting a well composed nor artistic shot. I think it's the newsman in you but a local fire near a CSX yard is not all that interesting nor significant vrs say, perhaps the big forest fires or similar captured in a more dramatic /train related way.

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Old 06-30-2012, 03:41 PM   #6
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I don't think the composition is going to work. If the train would have been on the near track, you might have had it; but having the train that far over messed it up. Regardless, for the last one, try cropping a lot off of the left, some off of the top, and some off of the bottom. That might make things a little tighter and clean it up a bit, although you will lose some smoke in the process. Also, rotate the shot a little CCW.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Here's a question that doesn't really touch on the composition rejection, though does for the PEQ -

Why do you even want to upload shots like that?

Seems you are view-hunting and not really after posting a well composed nor artistic shot. I think it's the newsman in you but a local fire near a CSX yard is not all that interesting nor significant vrs say, perhaps the big forest fires or similar captured in a more dramatic /train related way.

/Mitch
Must be nice up on that high horse. I like it.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by coborn35 View Post
Must be nice up on that high horse. I like it.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots. Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another,
What is it about the photo that you like?

A photo does not have to be artistic to be accepted onto RP nor artistic to be considered a good photo. It does however tend to require something other then the inclusion of the subject(s) themselves.

So = what does this image have going for it other then serving as proof that the event captured actually had happened?

There is too much empty and uninteresting space top right and bottom left. The subjects themselves are centered in the frame vertically which is generally considered by most to be an unappealing way to capture a subject. It looks more (to me) like two photos each with single subjects vrs one single integrated image since the subjects are are so far apart from each other.

It does not look like an example of "The BEST railroad photos on the net" but instead, more like something that simply happened with a train that was forced into the composition.

Now this on the other hand....

Image © Ken Szok
PhotoID: 152371
Photograph © Ken Szok


/Mitch
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by coborn35 View Post
Must be nice up on that high horse. I like it.
None of the several variations did a thing for me. Sorry. I found no compositional relevance between the train and the smoke.

While it might not have been cool to do so, had he stepped over to shoot the train more head-on, with the smoke billowing up behind in a medium tell shot--perhaps that would have worked. But, it would appear that would require crossing some tracks to get to that spot, and maybe that would have been a no-no.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
What is it about the photo that you like?

A photo does not have to be artistic to be accepted onto RP nor artistic to be considered a good photo. It does however tend to require something other then the inclusion of the subject(s) themselves.

So = what does this image have going for it other then serving as proof that the event captured actually had happened?

There is too much empty and uninteresting space top right and bottom left. The subjects themselves are centered in the frame vertically which is generally considered by most to be an unappealing way to capture a subject. It looks more (to me) like two photos each with single subjects vrs one single integrated image since the subjects are are so far apart from each other.

It does not look like an example of "The BEST railroad photos on the net" but instead, more like something that simply happened with a train that was forced into the composition.

Now this on the other hand....

Image © Ken Szok
PhotoID: 152371
Photograph © Ken Szok


/Mitch
I agree with cowboy Mitch, but if you crop out the smoke and the poles you could have a decent wedgie shot, for what it's worth
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:18 PM   #11
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Since they do accept compressed photos, may I suggest something like this.



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Old 07-01-2012, 04:34 PM   #12
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Lightbulb I like Ken's Stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post

Now this on the other hand....

Image © Ken Szok
PhotoID: 152371
Photograph © Ken Szok


/Mitch
Oh I remember that.

Ken has caught a couple of good Cajon fire shots.

The last was the Sheep Canyon Blaze , taken from Summit.

Cajon Pass Fire

2009, Ken Szok. All rights reserved.

The fire burned the top of the mountain between Swartout Road and Hwy 138.

I hate to say it, but Cajon is due for a good burner, and this might be the year since the Winter of 10'-11' was so wet and this last one rather dry.


Quote:
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Since they do accept compressed photos, may I suggest something like this. Chris Z
That funny!

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Old 07-01-2012, 04:38 PM   #13
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Lightbulb Opps, double post.

Opps, double post.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
While it might not have been cool to do so, had he stepped over to shoot the train more head-on, with the smoke billowing up behind in a medium tell shot--perhaps that would have worked. But, it would appear that would require crossing some tracks to get to that spot, and maybe that would have been a no-no.
Indeed I was shoulder to shoulder with a Road Closed sign that used to be a grade crossing in Cayce. A few years ago, I could have put the smoke over the trains better. Even if I had fought through the traffic and road closings for the fire and gone the three miles to get to the other side of the tracks, by then, the angle of the sun would have likely been wrong at least on the SD60 shot. Of course, that train was moving, so he would have been blocking the Dash 8 back there anyway most of the time
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:04 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by coborn35 View Post
Must be nice up on that high horse.
After looking at all of the versions of the image under discussion and reading through the comments, I'm not sure that I view Mitch's opinion as "high and mighty." Initially, when he indicated that he thought Joe might be "view-hunting", my reaction was:

"But Mitch, we're all view-hunters. Otherwise we'd just get Flickr accounts and avoid all of the screening hassles"

In the case of this image however, I think he's right. When I look at a photo, I sometimes ask myself why the photographer might have taken the shot. Common answers would include depicting a pretty or artistic railroad scene, or documenting common or rare operations. Yet another reason might be to document some calamity, like a derailment. This image isn't particularly artistic or pretty. As far as I can see, there are no operations going on in the yard, nor is there rare equipment. The yard looks pretty dull, actually. A dark plume dominates the scene, indicating a potential calamity in the distance, but since I can't tell what the source of that event is, I'm left wondering why the photographer shot it from this spot, rather than driving closer for a more detailed look.

I have to conclude that this photo is really just a tease. A thumbnail view might catch the eye of an RP viewer and lead him/her to think that something calamatous happened in a railroad yard, but upon viewing the full size image, they find that it doesn't deliver the goods, leaving them with more questions than answers. So when I again ask that question as to why the photographer took the shot, I have to agree with Mitch on the motive.

God, do I sound like one of those artsy-fartsy movie reviewers? I need to wash my mouth out with Lysol!!!
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:32 AM   #16
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I don't know if it's all that bad. I like the shot. Reminds me of some stuff I've seen in books. If at all, maybe I'd try a crop like this after leveling it.



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Old 07-02-2012, 04:49 AM   #17
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So when I again ask that question as to why the photographer took the shot, I have to agree with Mitch on the motive.
Bring back the "bad motive" reject! More pop psychology from screeners!
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:14 AM   #18
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Well, I still like both shots even though I am in the minority. I do apppreciate the comments though. They all gave me soomething to think about. Chris, I do like your crop, too!
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #19
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Bring back the "bad motive" reject! More pop psychology from screeners!
Did they ever have a "bad motive" rejection here? My experience only goes back 4.5 years, so if it existed, it predated my time on RP. I believe they still do have such a rejection on JetPhotos.net.
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