Old 04-15-2006, 12:47 AM   #1
Frederick
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Default Plethora of Rejections

I thought these were really good shots, but they were rejected.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236252
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236246
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236260
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236253

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you.

Also, the images appeared really sharp and crisp, but once they were uploaded, the image quality was literally sliced in half.
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Old 04-15-2006, 02:05 AM   #2
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I don't think they're bad either, but they definitely teeter on the border of acceptance/rejection here as far as the light on the nose is concerned. I like this one http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236253 the best out of the four.

This one http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236260 looks as if you may have already tried to lighten up the nose in post editing. I just don't think it looks natural.

Those are tough rejections to swallow, but I would try to get more of a broad side shot with more lighted parts of the train next time, or try to find a spot on the line that has the train going into the light a little more. (Easier said than done, sometimes!!)
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Old 04-15-2006, 02:14 AM   #3
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I also wanted to say that this one http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236260 lacks any other interesting elements other than the train. Too much washed out sky and not enough train or anything else for that matter. Just my opinion.

The other three have more to offer, though this one http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236246 may be a little too tightly zoomed of just the front (again, just my personal tastes, you and/or others may disagree)

Keep trying!
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Old 04-15-2006, 02:36 AM   #4
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Finally, this is a general question for yourself and anyone else that does this-

Why is there this need to make a remark about the type of camera used and/or the aperture and shutter speed? Isn't this what the EXIF info and photographer profile link is for? If I want to know what kind of camera and settings were used, I know how to find the information.


Sorry to get a little worked up, this isn't the first time I've seen this.
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccaranna
Why is there this need to make a remark about the type of camera used and/or the aperture and shutter speed? Isn't this what the EXIF info and photographer profile link is for? If I want to know what kind of camera and settings were used, I know how to find the information.
NeatImage removes the EXIF headers.

Quote:
Those are tough rejections to swallow, but I would try to get more of a broad side shot with more lighted parts of the train next time, or try to find a spot on the line that has the train going into the light a little more. (Easier said than done, sometimes!!)
Can do. This line has a NW to SE orientation, so that isn't hard.

Thanks.
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccaranna
Why is there this need to make a remark about the type of camera used and/or the aperture and shutter speed? Isn't this what the EXIF info and photographer profile link is for? If I want to know what kind of camera and settings were used, I know how to find the information.
Ah, he's just proud of his new camera. But I guess these bits of info in comments haven't bother me.

These definitely are difficult rejections to get, especially since there is some light on the nose. I too have had a lot of trouble with undersharpened rejections lately - most are accepted on appeal. Sounds like you plan on getting out there, so have fun.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:37 AM   #7
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The DME shot is my favorite. I'd much rather see a side-lit SD40-2 than a nose-lit Dash-9.

* * *

Edited to add:
Last night I took a look thru a recent issue of Railpace magazine and hadn't gotten more than 3 pages before seeing 2 photos I'm certain would have been rejected here as "backlit" (both were side-lit with shadow on the nose). Just a reminder that rejection here does not necessarily mean that a photo is unworthy of publication.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Why is there this need to make a remark about the type of camera used and/or the aperture and shutter speed? Isn't this what the EXIF info and photographer profile link is for? If I want to know what kind of camera and settings were used, I know how to find the information.
Unlike JP.net, there's no place to put what type of camera or lens combo you used. Also, like mentioned, sometimes the EXIF doesn't make it through post-processing depending on what programs you use. Many times I've wanted to know what shot settings somebody used, but EXIF data was not found.

Plus, some peope may not know what EXIF is or even how to access it, even though it is just a click away...
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Old 04-15-2006, 07:29 PM   #9
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Sometimes we like our photographs more than we should. I do this and here it just does not work well. I like the shots you posted and can appreciate what effort you put into them . . .

For posting here I prefer blue skies, if they can be had. I have posted gray ones, but wished I had not, whenever I could have gotten around it. Action is always welcome, but a planned out action shot is more likely to be usable here. Take the time to lay a trap for your RPN postings. Use that morning or evening sun, get that blue sky, shoot with your back to the sun, use a tripod or high shutter speed 500 or more. Disregard "Buck" fever. You either get it (the shot) or you do not. There is always another train . . .

Shoot like you mean it. Shoot to win. Don't spray and pray, don't get caught by a train and then try to sell it as a (fill in the blank). Shoot like a pro, act like a pro. There is no fee nor charge to be a pro to yourself. It is only a mindset that would help so many aspiring train photographers. Shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot some more. Look at you photographs, see the good and the bad. See how the light is grainy if you shoot this way to the sun, but the paint looks wet if you use this angle.

Most of all, will people want to see your photographs? Is this shot the eye catcher among all of the days uploads? Will folks come home from work early to view this shot? Good shots don't always get the post counts, but they are good shots, wrecks will every time. No way to beat this . . .

Unless it is a UFO, don't shoot into the sun, they are a tough sell here, as they should be. Trains are easy, big and mostly slow. All cameras can stop motion a train these days. Look for something different, roster shots are ok, but are they what the RPN public wants to see, what they want to post . . . no. But if they are good they will, but I don't think they like to. I have several and they are more pity posts, as I look back, than good photographs. I have shots I wish I had not appealed and won on, NOW. I hate the pictures, the screener knew then what I know now. . . they suck. And they do, some of them. All in all the screeners know their stuff, I don't and most probably never will agree with them, but after a year of posting I have learned some, and hope to learn a bunch more. I hope I am not done.

Don't give up ever, just shoot and shoot, look at your work and make it better. My son played Baseball, he could tell the pitch by the movement of the stitches on the ball. I did good to see the ball. If you are not seeing the stitches in your photographs, you are not yet master of your camera. Nothing wrong with this, but if you want to do well here, you need to learn to see the movement of the ball, the spin, if using a baseball story helps.

Master your hobby one day at a time, and some every day. Now get out there and shoot. Here is to seeing your shots here on RPN and in the shot of the day slot . . .
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:25 PM   #10
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Thanks for the replies, everyone. Now that I look at them again, the only one I really like is the DM&E one. I also like the heat distortion in #2.

Although, I fail to see how this:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236452

is similar to this:

Image © Frederick W.
PhotoID: 140759
Photograph © Frederick W.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Now that I look at them again, the only one I really like is the DM&E one. I also like the heat distortion in #2.

Although, I fail to see how this:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=236452

is similar to this:

Image © Frederick W.
PhotoID: 140759
Photograph © Frederick W.
Are you absolutly sure those are the two photos that are similiar to one another?

I have a few thoughts on the other shots, but I think most of it has been gone over before. It's opdd how subjective photography can be, because the least favorite of mine out of your four is the DEM shot. Not a comment there other than highlighting how different our opinions can be here.


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Old 04-16-2006, 05:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Just a reminder that rejection here does not necessarily mean that a photo is unworthy of publication.
Excellent point, and one that I felt was worthy of mention. Alot of people who are frustrated at this site's standards and screening practices will complain that, "RP.net thinks they are the end-all, be-all of what rail photography should be."

Not true.

Yes, it's true that they have their standards, but that doesn't mean they are the one 'voice' of rail photography. They like a certain niche of photograph (which is still quite broad), and if someone shoots outside of it and gets rejected, there's a chance they'll get peeved and perpetuate the misconception about RP.net thinking it is the end-all, be-all. And that's too bad.

If you find yourself starting to think RP.net believes they are God's gift to RR photography, try to think of it as a magazine rejection. Not everything submitted gets published, but that doesn't mean you can't try again tomorrow...
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Old 04-16-2006, 06:23 AM   #13
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I like them all Frederick - don't sell yourself short.
They look better then many of the shots I've seen on RPN.

You may try an appeal and see what happens, or resubmit after
a little tweeking if you find some of the advice useful. I've had
a few rejected and although they may not have been my best
material, they were like yours, better then, in my humble opinion,
some of the stuff that makes it on to RPN. It would appear
each screener has a unique opinion of what is good and what is not.

Like RJS, I'll agree that I have had some photos accepted that shouldn't
have been and almost wish they were not! I say almost because
I really worked pretty hard to get those shots, either hiking a mile, waiting
2 hours or after the shot, spending the large amount of time that was
necessary to process it - mostly removing the grain from an older negative.

To any screeners - an additional comment goes a long way towards making
this site even more enjoyable, or in some cases more tolerable! I can't
imagine how many rejections there are but it's certainly appreciated when
a personal word is thrown in. In the case of Frederick, I can only imagine a comment like "I simply don't like it" or "I have a lower tolerence level for imperfection and want this site to be the best it can be".

Good luck!

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Old 04-16-2006, 08:54 PM   #14
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Frederick -
I think what happened is you got scooped by this...

Image © Robert M. Ball
PhotoID: 140762
Photograph © Robert M. Ball


...which seems to be the same train.
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Old 04-16-2006, 09:58 PM   #15
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I would agree, I think you were scooped. I have had it happen several times with my fellow Minnesota Railfans.
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Old 04-16-2006, 11:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader
Frederick -
I think what happened is you got scooped by this...

Image © Robert M. Ball
PhotoID: 140762
Photograph © Robert M. Ball


...which seems to be the same train.
It is. I met Robert Ball that day, too...
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Old 04-16-2006, 11:16 PM   #17
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Well, I'm no stranger to getting scooped on train shots...especially given that I shoot film. Even 1 hour processing (plus my Photoshop time) is no match for digital. I pretty much know that if I'm trackside and standing next to another fan who knows about this site, I'm gonna get scooped.
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Old 04-17-2006, 01:27 AM   #18
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I forgot to mention this in my first post. but Frederick you were the first to scoop me. I thought for sure I had a winner when lo and behold you had shot the same photo as me.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=125239
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:06 AM   #19
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If you don't want to get scooped by a guy standing next to you shooting the same train, don't stand next to a guy shooting the same train. Go to a different spot. Find a bridge to shoot from or one to shoot the train crossing. If you think he's shooting telephoto, shoot wide. Find a road crossing or even a ditch to stand in and shoot up.

It really works if you're like me -- anti-social and hateful of mankind!


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Old 04-17-2006, 07:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
It really works if you're like me -- anti-social and hateful of mankind!

Joe

I relate to that! I always go solo-like to be alone on trips and know my dog is far superior to people-but if someone else got the same shot as me... oh, well. Sh*t happens.

(My main bitch & moan is that I just got a bunch of bad motives and today saw a lot worse stuff get posted. Starting to take stuff elsewhere over the last couple weeks.)

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Old 04-17-2006, 05:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
If you don't want to get scooped by a guy standing next to you shooting the same train, don't stand next to a guy shooting the same train. Go to a different spot. Find a bridge to shoot from or one to shoot the train crossing. If you think he's shooting telephoto, shoot wide. Find a road crossing or even a ditch to stand in and shoot up.

It really works if you're like me -- anti-social and hateful of mankind!


Joe
Interesting that you get this problem in such a huge country as the States. Anything remotely interesting in the UK these days seems to get every man and his dog out and it is very hard to find a worthwhile spot without somebody else there.
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