Old 04-22-2009, 07:14 PM   #1
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Default TONS of stored power across the U.S.

Lets take a small poll here, how many agree or disagree with me that all of the stored power around our great nation is not necessarily a bad thing?
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:45 PM   #2
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Disagree. For those that work for the railway and are laid off, it's a bad thing, it's the sign of the times that things are getting tougher and tougher as we go deeper and deeper into the recession.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:03 PM   #3
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Lets take a small poll here, how many agree or disagree with me that all of the stored power around our great nation is not necessarily a bad thing?
On one hand, it's a bad thing. As mentioned, people out of work and that's never a good thing. On the other hand, environmentalists are rejoicing. That's less pollution and fuel being consumed.

I'm curious to hear why you think it's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:32 PM   #4
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From strictly a railfan's view, the stored power, usually older models, will be around longer.
From a environmentalist's view the air is cleaner, after all, it's Earth Day.
From a realist's view, It's a barometer of the ecomony and that's not a good thing.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:52 PM   #5
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It's a sad thing that fellow railroaders are furloughed but, stored power has nothing to do with their layoffs.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:53 PM   #6
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P.S. I'm not talking about an environmentalist standpoint, that really is irrelevant.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:57 PM   #7
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It's a sad thing that fellow railroaders are furloughed but, stored power has nothing to do with their layoffs.
Hmmm...come on, get to the point!
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:59 PM   #8
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This simply means that we, as a country are importing less containers of crap from China and surrounding low-paying countries. Now, does the American Union paid worker suffer from this? Yes, unfortunately it does. But, maybe we can get our modern industrialation back for less reliance on these foreign bloodsuckers. Sorry if anyone here disagrees with me on this matter, but, it is the truth. Think about this a minute, mineral shipments remain the same (coal, coke, ore, etc..) General merchandise pretty much remains the same other than lumber and auto parts. So, the only thing left is foreign container business, which is down considerably and that is spread countrywide. I will stay out of the balance of this thread, I only did this to spark conversation and only that. I hope that you guys keep your responses fact based and fact based only but, I also ask that you consider my response(s) against your own.

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Old 04-22-2009, 10:09 PM   #9
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It's a sad thing that fellow railroaders are furloughed but, stored power has nothing to do with their layoffs.
Kevin it does, when a company stores power, stores freight cars because no one is using them, this in turn cuts jobs in the process, no point of having online jobs to service customers or build trains when the traffic (cars) to warrant them isn't there. This causes a ripple effect when senior guys begin to bump junior guys when their perm job is abolished. So guess what happens the junior guys themselves can go else where or get laid off if they have no other option.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:46 PM   #10
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Kevin it does, when a company stores power, stores freight cars because no one is using them, this in turn cuts jobs in the process, no point of having online jobs to service customers or build trains when the traffic (cars) to warrant them isn't there. This causes a ripple effect when senior guys begin to bump junior guys when their perm job is abolished. So guess what happens the junior guys themselves can go else where or get laid off if they have no other option.
Mike, I understand what you are saying simply because I've been there myself. However, the stored power does not indicate a furlough!! Railroads have been retiring and storing power for years without layoffs.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:55 PM   #11
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Mike, I understand what you are saying simply because I've been there myself. However, the stored power does not indicate a furlough!! Railroads have been retiring and storing power for years without layoffs.
That's true, your absolutely right Kevin I should have paid more attention to your reply because railroads do buy new power all the time which in turn stores or retires older power in the process, I get what your saying now.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:08 PM   #12
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It's a bad thing.

CP is storing ES44AC's. That's not because they've bought power to replace these nearly new units. The economy is in the toilet and therefore power is stored. I'm sorry, but hundreds of stored locomotives is a direct sign of a bad economy and indicative of layoffs. EMD and GE are laying off hundreds of workers at their locomotive assembly plants because orders for new power are drying up. Fewer locomotives delivered and hundreds stored and layoffs go hand in hand.

In good times a few years ago, 30 year old locomotives were having every bit of use squeezed out of them, now they're parked.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:09 PM   #13
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That's true, your absolutely right Kevin I should have paid more attention to your reply because railroads do buy new power all the time which in turn stores or retires older power in the process, I get what your saying now.
Mike De Costa and EVERYONE else, this thread is a North American motivational speech to buy from our respective countries and NOT from abroad!! Keep our purchases in house and we as an upper American Continent will thrive, don't play the "I can't afford our products so, I wil shop at Wal-Mart game". Play hard ball, save afew dollars and spend afew extra hard earned dollars on our great nation(s) Canada included!

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Old 04-23-2009, 01:21 AM   #14
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Let's see if I remember this right. Canada is our number one trading partner. China's economy is almost as big as our health care system. No one's buying because they are already in too much debt and who knows how long they will be having a job if they still have one.

Exports are down that would generate some traffic. With stored power, that means less trains on the main line for us to take pictures or longer waits.

I guess that means we won't be seeing trains running on Tennessee Pass again unless too much traffic results on UP's Wyoming line or Moffat line which won't happen any time soon. We will probably start seeing deferred maintenance again.

It will probably be in this state for a very long time because the government is taking more of the working man's money and giving it to themselves and large corporations. Look at what happened to Zimbabwe.

Also being poor is bad for the environment. Look at third world countries.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:33 AM   #15
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Who here shoots with a camera made in America?
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:39 AM   #16
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This simply means that we, as a country are importing less containers of crap from China and surrounding low-paying countries.
Kevin's premise = fail.

The reason imports are down is because demand is down. Go learn basic economics before your next "people out of work is a good sign...really!" theory...
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:01 AM   #17
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Kevin's premise = fail.

The reason imports are down is because demand is down. Go learn basic economics before your next "people out of work is a good sign...really!" theory...
You should keep reading.....
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:42 AM   #18
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Also being poor is bad for the environment. Look at third world countries.
The biggest problem with third world countries is that they keep breeding when they shouldn't be. If you yourself can't afford to live, you shouldn't be breeding and adding to the problem. That goes for third world countries or ANYONE in this world who can't afford it.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:01 PM   #19
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The biggest problem with third world countries is that they keep breeding when they shouldn't be. If you yourself can't afford to live, you shouldn't be breeding and adding to the problem. That goes for third world countries or ANYONE in this world who can't afford it.
Problem is, breeding is their only form of entertainment. Not many railfans in those countries.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:06 PM   #20
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Problem is, breeding is their only form of entertainment. Not many railfans in those countries.
It always pisses me off when I see the programs asking for money to be sent to these countries because the people are starving there. We usually see some malnourished child sitting there with a sad look and flies crawling all over his/her face. Here's a thought...teach them NOT to breed and they won't have these problems! And along with the money and food, send LOTS and LOTS of birth control.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:11 PM   #21
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It always pisses me off when I see the programs asking for money to be sent to these countries because the people are starving there. We usually see some malnourished child sitting there with a sad look and flies crawling all over his/her face. Here's a thought...teach them NOT to breed and they won't have these problems! And along with the money and food, send LOTS and LOTS of birth control.
I think part of the problem is education and values. Poor people can be taught to become productive and self sustaining. Oppression thwarts a lot of that. Seems like many people are taught that they deserve to get from those that produce because they can not produce for themselves. Then there are governments and lawyers (I think that they are pretty much the same thing) to help the cause of those that do not produce, and in this way they also help themselves. Come to think of it, they probably only help themselves, cause I don't really see the poor getting much richer.

Anyway, I think we as a nation need some ideas to become more productive and have the capital to do so and also we probably need some protective legislation to keep lawyers and liability away from people that can come up with new inventions to make our world a better place.

A major war got us out of the last depression, which is the other alternative that is not favorable, but railroad traffic did increase. It makes for a lot more photo opportunities, and that is our agenda.

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Old 04-23-2009, 06:06 PM   #22
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You should keep reading.....
No need to. Your theory does hold some weight...about as much as my arm pit hair contributes to my overall weight.

The housing market started to slump, demand was down. The result? Less trains of housing material.

The automotive market is down because people aren't buying. The result? Less automotive trains needed.

The economy tanked, people aren't buying. Everything's down. The result? No need to transport stuff to the people who aren't going to be buying.

Airlines did the same things. Fuel prices up, cut routes, park tails.

Demand down. Supply down. Trains parked.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:16 AM   #23
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No need to. Your theory does hold some weight...about as much as my arm pit hair contributes to my overall weight.

The housing market started to slump, demand was down. The result? Less trains of housing material.

The automotive market is down because people aren't buying. The result? Less automotive trains needed.
Which is exactly why there are several spots with Centerbeam cars and/or Auto rack cars stored similarly to all the power in a variety of locations.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:07 PM   #24
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Think about this a minute, mineral shipments remain the same (coal, coke, ore, etc..) General merchandise pretty much remains the same other than lumber and auto parts. So, the only thing left is foreign container business, which is down considerably and that is spread countrywide. I will stay out of the balance of this thread, I only did this to spark conversation and only that. I hope that you guys keep your responses fact based and fact based only but, I also ask that you consider my response(s) against your own.
Are you serious when you say that mineral shipments remain the same? Minnesota's Taconite plants are operating at reduced capacity for the very short term, and most will be shutting down completely for an extended period very shortly, some for a few weeks, and others for possibly the rest of the year. Union Pacific reported PRB coal loadings down more than 10% in the first three months of the year.

I don't think that general merchandise other than lumber and auto parts is a huge segment of railroad revenues. You need to provide some data to back up your statement.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:03 PM   #25
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Kevin's premise = fail.

The reason imports are down is because demand is down. Go learn basic economics before your next "people out of work is a good sign...really!" theory...
His premise is right on, but his reasoning behind it is flawed.

Simple demand is down, and since most of our non-food product goods comes from overseas in containers, rail traffic is way down. None of this domestic production is ever coming back here, if anyone here thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves.

There are thousands of miles of stored flatcars, wells and other cars directly related to containers and tofc that you would have to be a fool to admit otherwise. Likewise there are thousands of locomotives stored which used to pull these trains. Most of the RR's are keeping their newest (more efficient) locomotives running and storing the older ones, mostly SD40-2, SD60 and GE -8's. Some are storing newer stuff, NS has hundreds of C40-9's and CW40-9's as well stored, which really are not that old, CSX is storing AC6000's even.

On the CSX there are entire lines whose sidings are filled with cars, autoracks, covered hoppers, wells and flats. Phosphate export is WAY down, so here near me there are miles and miles of covered and open hoppers used directly for phosphate.
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