Old 04-22-2009, 05:59 AM   #1
jnohallman
Senior Member
 
jnohallman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,527
Default Trespassing redux

Actually, the issue isn't trespassing per se so much as the apparent inability of a train crew to understand the difference between railroad and public property. I had a CSX crew call the cops to complain about me today while I was shooting photos from a public road. At no point did I set foot off the road, but that apparently didn't register with the guys in the engine. I have to say, the cops in this case were very pleasant. They seemed to think that the CSX folks were being stupid, and joked about having to run my ID to find out if I was a terrorist, then told me to enjoy my photos.

So, what makes a train crew call the cops on someone with a camera standing on public property?

Jon
__________________
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Click here to see my photos on RP.net!

Do not, under any circumstances whatsoever, click here. Don't even think about it. I'm warning you!
jnohallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 07:09 AM   #2
BarrySr
Senior Member
 
BarrySr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, Tx.; home of the Texas Chokers
Posts: 225
Send a message via Yahoo to BarrySr
Exclamation

You know what, Jon? After seeing and experiencing this sort of thing for over 30 years as a fan AND somewhat from the other side, SOMETIMES [not always] it just boils down to this: some people can't stand to see someone actually enjoying life, or enjoying having a passion for a hobby or pastime. They're not happy at the moment, and by gosh you shouldn't be either!
__________________
BarrySr
KE5YYR


"I dug 'dem boats when diggin' em wasn't cool"


"Why are the crazy people so enamorate of all things EMD?" [Holloran Grade]

____________________

View My Photos on Railpictures.net

Last edited by BarrySr; 04-22-2009 at 07:10 AM. Reason: spacing between words
BarrySr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 07:27 AM   #3
jdirelan87
Senior Member
 
jdirelan87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Metro DC
Posts: 725
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrySr View Post
You know what, Jon? After seeing and experiencing this sort of thing for over 30 years as a fan AND somewhat from the other side, SOMETIMES [not always] it just boils down to this: some people can't stand to see someone actually enjoying life, or enjoying having a passion for a hobby or pastime. They're not happy at the moment, and by gosh you shouldn't be either!
I couldn't agree with you more. It seems like some people in the industry just can't stand that some people enjoy railroads as a hobby. I can understand to some extent, after all not everybody like having their picture taken, but some of the stuff I have seen is just uncalled for.

I came to this conclusion a few years ago when I got particularly raw dealed at the local Amtrak station. My intentions where very clear: I had a huge camera on an even larger tripod, I walked clearly down the middle of the platform, waved at the crew sitting in the engine and set up for my shot. At no point did I ever leave the platform or even get close to the yellow line. That didn't stop them from calling the dispatcher over the radio to get the police, never even bothering to ask me what I was doing.
jdirelan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 09:34 AM   #4
JWH
Member
 
JWH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nelson, BC
Posts: 37
Default

In the 1980's I had a situation where, after a FRA inspectors had been in the area posing as railfans, I was harassed in the Buffalo area one weekend. Evidently, the crews were miffed (politely phrased) and were calling the Conrail Police at anyone with cameras. After the third meeting with the same officer, he explained that the inspectors had been taking pictures of employees allegedly catching them breaking rules. I had heard of situations like this subsequently where authorities pose as railfans, attempting to conduct surveillances of employees. Here in the frozen North even a Road Master I knew, used his personal vehicle to conduct speed traps where railfans gathered.

Most employees recognize the regulars by sight, as they tend to have regulars spots and times of being trackside. Having worked for the railways, I found myself more concerned of persons in the desolate spots or switchstands than the ones who hung out at known gathering spots.
JWH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 01:40 PM   #5
TheRoadForeman
Banned
 
TheRoadForeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 640
Default

That is a true statement about some FRA inspectors. Now, to the rest of this, I think that Class II and Class III carrier employees will be lest apt to call the authorities on railfans than the Class I employees. I would never blow in a fan unless they were trespassing (even with this, I would kindly ask them to leave or, check in at the office first, depends on their attitude) or, doing something very dangerous close to the property line. However, with the TSA now conducting their own unannounced security inspections on railroad security measures, the law is that if we (railroaders) don't know who(m) you are, we are to question you even if you don't look suspicious! This only applies to railroad property of course. Standing on a public road to take pictures? That is silly to call the cops!

Last edited by TheRoadForeman; 04-22-2009 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Added a sentance
TheRoadForeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #6
jnohallman
Senior Member
 
jnohallman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,527
Default

BTW, here's one of the shots that got me a police visit!

Image © Jonathan Hallman
PhotoID: 280901
Photograph © Jonathan Hallman


And yes, even though it's unpaved, its a public (county) road. Those things do still exist in the 21st century!

Jon
__________________
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Click here to see my photos on RP.net!

Do not, under any circumstances whatsoever, click here. Don't even think about it. I'm warning you!
jnohallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 05:10 PM   #7
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman View Post
Actually, the issue isn't trespassing per se so much as the apparent inability of a train crew to understand the difference between railroad and public property. I had a CSX crew call the cops to complain about me today while I was shooting photos from a public road. At no point did I set foot off the road, but that apparently didn't register with the guys in the engine. I have to say, the cops in this case were very pleasant. They seemed to think that the CSX folks were being stupid, and joked about having to run my ID to find out if I was a terrorist, then told me to enjoy my photos.

So, what makes a train crew call the cops on someone with a camera standing on public property?

Jon
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 06:11 PM   #8
Rich K
Senior Member
 
Rich K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
Same thing in Ohio, Jim. The majority of CSX crews around here (and Norfolk Southern too) don't seem to have a problem with railfans.

I have been waved at by the crews many, many times. Recently, after I shot a CSX train I looked up toward the cab as I waved to the crew and much to my amusement saw the conductor standing in his window photographing me!

Several times I have heard a particular crew member say "Good Morning" to one of the old timer regulars who railfans at one of my favorite spots.

At least in your situation the police understood you were within your rights and so no harm, no foul.
__________________
Rich K

Webmaster of The Railfan Gallery

Click Here to view my photos at RailPictures.net
Rich K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 07:00 PM   #9
TAMR159
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 367
Default

It is part of most railroads' rules that they must report suspicious individuals, anyone who's trespassing, etc. Class one guys tend to give a little more leeway on the latter when you're out in the middle of nowhere, but when you start getting into a terminal/yard area, be damn sure you know right where the property lines are. Yes, there are some overzealous guys out there, but they're the minority, and as has been said, they're usually either having a bad day or, in some cases, closet buffs themselves and "in denial". To elaborate on that last bit, a guy I know out here is a buff and a conductor, and one trip was with an engineer who called the cops on every railfan he saw, whether they were trespassing or not (he even went so far as to scowl at, followed by calling the cops on a father holding his toddler son on his shoulders as they waved to them from a public parking lot). Said engineer later told the conductor he enjoyed reading up on railroad's histories, looking at older photos of the railroads, unusual locomotives/paint schemes...basically admitting that he himself was a buff.

Regarding the law enforcement end of it, all I can say is just be polite and courteous and don't lie to them. They get the opposite treatment all day long, so if you respect them, they'll gladly do the same for you (and after encountering dozens of law enforcement officials, I can honestly say I've never had a problem - the worse scenario is they request I move somewhere else, which I do). It's when you start getting hostile and screaming "civil rights" right off the bat that you're starting to dig your own grave - remember, these guys do it for a living, whereas we only have the pleasure of an occasional encounter.
TAMR159 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 10:27 PM   #10
John Fladung
JohnFladung.net
 
John Fladung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
I'm curious as to what you mean by this?
John Fladung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 11:51 PM   #11
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung View Post
I'm curious as to what you mean by this?
Are you kidding?
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 03:07 AM   #12
John Fladung
JohnFladung.net
 
John Fladung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Are you kidding?
No, I was asking a question.
John Fladung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 03:30 AM   #13
lock4244
Senior Member
 
lock4244's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The City Below Vaughan
Posts: 1,048
Default

I had a roadswitchers hogger yell "no photo's" while I was standing on a public road and then flip me the bird a week or so ago.

Few weeks ago, I had a conductor stop for a very brief and very pleasant chat while he waited for the head end of his train to pick him up a while back. He joked about the 6000' lift they just made (to their 4500' train)... then I made a comment about the underabundance of power they had. He laughed and mentioned what a great guy the CEO was

Some people are just plain nice, others are dicks. Sometimes you get an average person on a bad day. At least the cop was a good sport.
__________________
Mike Lockwood

Insert witty comment here

Hot girl on girl action here!

More Pics Here
lock4244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #14
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung View Post
No, I was asking a question.
You seriously don't know the difference between a foamer wave and a general greeting wave?
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:53 PM   #15
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

Here is one for you A UP crew that calls in all fans on or off the property, Their well known for calling in. One day, DS Buzz, Yes there is surveyors at MP --- and there in on the road but in the fence line. The UP makes you have a UP guy and radio at $140. A hour watch your backs if working in the fence line, It's the state ROW but Railroad property to the fence line. So standing at the crossing wont save you if they push come to shove in court
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:48 PM   #16
John Fladung
JohnFladung.net
 
John Fladung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
You seriously don't know the difference between a foamer wave and a general greeting wave?
No, hence the question. I'd be willing to be there are others that don't know what the hell you're talking about either.
John Fladung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 06:18 PM   #17
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung View Post
No, hence the question. I'd be willing to be there are others that don't know what the hell you're talking about either.
Me too, although I suspect the regular wave involves five fingers and the foamer wave involves one.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 10:33 PM   #18
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung View Post
No, hence the question. I'd be willing to be there are others that don't know what the hell you're talking about either.
Calm down there, buddy.

Foamer wave: vigorous waving as the train passes, hence my "cheesy" comment earlier.

General acknowledgment wave: One hand up, kind of like you'd do when you see someone you know or just giving a quick "what's up" motion.

Still don't know what I'm talking about? If so, consider yourself lucky. To be in the presence of the foamer wave is a bit embarrasing.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:30 PM   #19
JWH
Member
 
JWH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nelson, BC
Posts: 37
Default

For those who work the head ends, how many times have you debated whether the person trackside is a foamer waving or a trying to stop the train for a hazard ahead?
In the UCOR, the Canadian Operating Rules (at least in my old copy), it specifically defined that when someone is vigorous waving at the train, operating crew interpret it as a warning and to slow or stop the train.
JWH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 01:20 AM   #20
TheRoadForeman
Banned
 
TheRoadForeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWH View Post
For those who work the head ends, how many times have you debated whether the person trackside is a foamer waving or a trying to stop the train for a hazard ahead?
In the UCOR, the Canadian Operating Rules (at least in my old copy), it specifically defined that when someone is vigorous waving at the train, operating crew interpret it as a warning and to slow or stop the train.

You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
TheRoadForeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 03:24 AM   #21
JWH
Member
 
JWH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nelson, BC
Posts: 37
Default

Quote:
You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
How close do you have to be to see a smile on their face? How close do you have to be to hear them screaming in panic? I've seen some foamers who wave at you as if they're the Starters at the Indie 500 , to the point where authorities were summoned to educate one idiot. I realize that you have to size up the situation as you encounter them. Remember the rules are made to protect the railroads, should there be an incident the company is protected not the employee.
JWH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 04:39 AM   #22
Christopher Muller
Senior Member
 
Christopher Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 787
Default

I'm confused (joking), but what kind of wave do I have... I hold the camera up, focusing in on the train as it approaches... taking several shots, after the train gets too close for a shot, I raise my left hand and hold it steady while maintaining my camera in my right hand. Sure I may look like an idiot standing there next to the tracks, but atleast I don't have the "foamer wave". God that cracked me up.
Christopher Muller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 05:02 AM   #23
Ween
Senior Member
 
Ween's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,861
Default

Jim,

What kind of wave do I do? Check out this video and watch the shadow under the second T on the rocks under the 'BTTE' grafitti:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCj4O...e=channel_page
__________________
Ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 06:13 AM   #24
John Fladung
JohnFladung.net
 
John Fladung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Calm down there, buddy.

Foamer wave: vigorous waving as the train passes, hence my "cheesy" comment earlier.

General acknowledgment wave: One hand up, kind of like you'd do when you see someone you know or just giving a quick "what's up" motion.

Still don't know what I'm talking about? If so, consider yourself lucky. To be in the presence of the foamer wave is a bit embarrasing.
No worries Jim. The only people I see waving the "Foamer Wave" are either mentally retarded or young kids.

If I wave at all it's definitely the "General acknowledgment wave".

Thanks for the clarification!
John Fladung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 08:15 AM   #25
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman View Post
You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
The panic, something-is-wrong wave takes place around 1:53 in this video.


__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.