Old 05-08-2012, 07:19 AM   #1
jac_murphy
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Default Posting others' photos as his own

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75810574@N02/

I see photos from Gary Knapp, Kevin Burkholder, Gary Senecal, Ryan Parent, Tom Nanos, and several others. This "David Adams" fellow is clearly not making any effort to remove the copyrights, nor the RP watermarks and border, but the captions and the way he responds to comments sure makes it seem like he's trying to pass off the stuff as his own. I highly doubt he has the permission of any of these photographers to use this material. I've reported it to Flickr, but felt that it needed to be shared here.

-Jacques

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Old 05-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #2
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Yep. As you get further back in his photos, the shots get much, much better. Because they're not his.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #3
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So...the guy has no sense of honesty or decency. So what...it's only a Flicker account. Who cares?
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:47 PM   #4
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I bet alot of people do.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
So...the guy has no sense of honesty or decency. So what...it's only a Flicker account. Who cares?
I certainly would, if there were any of mine on there.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:16 PM   #6
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Would we care? Absolutely. Can we do anything about it? That's more problematic.

Yes, there are copyright laws, but unlike other laws, you can't just call the cops on the guy. It is pretty much up to the injured party to pursue any action on his/her own. About all you can do is ask the host site (in this case, Flickr) to take the offending photos down. If they are reputable, that might end it. If they are not reputable...like eBay, for instance, then it might cost you some money to take it any further. How many of us have the resources and the time to hire a lawyer and chase this dufus?

As Ron said....it's just a Flickr page.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
So...the guy has no sense of honesty or decency. So what...it's only a Flicker account. Who cares?
So Ron, you wouldn't mind if I took one of your photos (or several) Licensed them and copyrighted them under my name and then sold them? if you notice on each page;
License
All Rights Reserved


Flickr;
If there is an image you'd like to use, look for the "Request to license" link near the license on the photo page. We've partnered with Getty Images who will review the image, determine if it's a good fit for licensing through them, and work out all the details if so.

BTW
Flickr Guidelines
Respect the copyright of others. This means don't steal photos or videos that other people have shared and pass them off as your own.
Donít upload anything that isn't yours.
This includes other people's photos, video, and/or stuff you've copied or collected from around the Internet. Accounts that consist primarily of such collections may be deleted at any time.

But like you said it's only a Flicker account..But they partnered with Getty Images

Bill
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #8
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Lightbulb Just a thought.

Quote:
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So Ron, you wouldn't mind if I took one of your photos (or several) Licensed them and copyrighted them under my name and then sold them?
I don't see where you made the jump to this, and to maintain an action for violation of copyright, it is important to be able to show that the copyright has actually been infringed, and that you own the copyright.

Additionally, you are assuming that Ron has actually gone through the expense of registering the alleged infringed images with the copyright office.

Sure, I agree some kid uploading others images to a free Flickr account is annoying, but is is very different than some guy taking your images and offering them for sale in a calendar or something - we have seen that before.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #9
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Additionally, you are assuming that Ron has actually gone through the expense of registering the alleged infringed images with the copyright office.
One doesn't actually need to register with the copyright office. That seems to be a commonly held view, I see it repeated often, but it is incorrect.

From the non-authoritative wiki, perhaps written by a lawyer, perhaps not, certainly quoted here by a non-lawyer :

Quote:
In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.[10] However, while registration isn't needed to exercise copyright, in jurisdictions where the laws provide for registration, it serves as prima facie evidence of a valid copyright and enables the copyright holder to seek statutory damages and attorney's fees. (In the USA, registering after an infringement only enables one to receive actual damages and lost profits.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:18 PM   #10
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You can assert your copyright without registering it, but if you want damages and attorneys fees, you will need to go through the formal registration process.

"(In the USA, registering after an infringement only enables one to receive actual damages and lost profits.)"
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
I don't see where you made the jump to this, and to maintain an action for violation of copyright, it is important to be able to show that the copyright has actually been infringed, and that you own the copyright.

Additionally, you are assuming that Ron has actually gone through the expense of registering the alleged infringed images with the copyright office.

Sure, I agree some kid uploading others images to a free Flickr account is annoying, but is is very different than some guy taking your images and offering them for sale in a calendar or something - we have seen that before.
I'm not jumping, For example, some of these are from RP, their policy is, as stated; (and no expense needed to register)

All photos displayed on this website (www.railpictures.net) are Copyrighted © by their original photographers, and may not be reused in any way without express written permission. All photos on this website are licensed to RailPictures.Net.

Any unauthorized use of these photos, be it for commercial or non-commercial use, is in violation of U.S. and international copyright law and is strictly forbidden.

You may not alter, crop, resize, reproduce, or distribute these photos in any fashion without permission from the owner. You may not claim these photos as your own property, or creation.


So if you read that statement it doesn't matter if it is a kid or a large corporation, your in violation of U.S. and international copyright law. (not to mention if your photo ends up getting licensed to Getty, as stated in their policy, it could end up anywhere
I dealt with this matter with a large corporation that used one of my photos
that was on RP. they took it very seriously, claimed they were unaware of it's origin but made full restitution to the claim.

But maybe there's a lot of people that think it's no big deal, I don't know
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
You can assert your copyright without registering it, but if you want damages and attorneys fees, you will need to go through the formal registration process.

"(In the USA, registering after an infringement only enables one to receive actual damages and lost profits.)"
Just FYI Each case is different, I never registered, but I received the compensation...
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
You can assert your copyright without registering it, but if you want statutory damages and attorneys fees in addition to actual damages and lost profits, you will need to go through the formal registration process.

"(In the USA, registering after an infringement only enables one to receive actual damages and lost profits.)"
Robert stubbornly refuses to admit he was wrong in asserting that Bill had to assume Ron had registered.

I corrected your most recent statement. You are welcome!
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:55 PM   #14
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This is more a pain in the butt than a court case. But if one of my shots were used, I would do what I could to get them removed.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #15
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............I dealt with this matter with a large corporation that used one of my photos that was on RP. they took it very seriously, claimed they were unaware of it's origin but made full restitution to the claim.
Of course they did, the infringer has a lot to loose in a copyright action - and ignorance of the source is not a defense to the action.

In addition to all the listed fees and damages, you can seek to disgorge any and all profits made off of the copyrighted work by the infringer.

That can stack up to a huge chunk of change if the photo was on a box, or magazine cover.

- Course, before you get a court to order all of that, you will need to register the work with the copyright office.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #16
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I tried to deal with this individual before, but he only deleted one of my photos after repeated requests (I think he didn't quite understand that it wasn't OK to do what he was doing - I suggested he just favorite photos, and not actually post them to his stream). Now that he's blocked me, I've been forced to go the route of reporting him to Yahoo's IP department...probably would have been easier if he just deleted them, but......

-Tom
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
"(In the USA, registering after an infringement only enables one to receive actual damages and lost profits.)"
That's the problem with this country - THAT use to be enough, but now - I'll bet you could sue for undue stress, triple damages, Flickr, RP, Comcast, ect..

/Mitch
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:59 PM   #18
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Anyone who leaves the RP watermark AND the copyright bar likely only "borrows" the photos to share. Think of it as an extension of the RP viewing audience, in this case. Still, I would not frown upon anyone advising this person that the way he /she is going about it is not exactly appropriate.

/Mitch
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Anyone who leaves the RP watermark AND the copyright bar likely only "borrows" the photos to share. Think of it as an extension of the RP viewing audience, in this case. Still, I would not frown upon anyone advising this person that the way he /she is going about it is not exactly appropriate.

/Mitch
Agreed, but I tried telling him that - at the very least give credit as to who is the photographer, and ideally get permission to do it. He did neither.

Yeah, they're lo-res photos, and it is only Flickr, but give credit where credit is due.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:06 PM   #20
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I've been 'round this buoy before, myself. I had three images that I had licensed to a calendar a year or two back. A couple of other RP'ers were also on the same publication. Some yo-yo decided to scan the calendar, then sell framed, matted copies of all of our images on eBay. We filed complaints with eBay and never even received acknowledgement from them. I couldn't even get a phone number or an e-mail address of any real person within that company. It has been a while since I checked, but last I knew, the clown was still doing it.

Does it make me angry? Yeah, it does. Am I ready to lawyer-up and spend thousands to stop this guy and maybe get damages....assuming he's worth much of anything? No. I don't suspect that he's making a killing off my photos. There really isn't much of a market for train pictures. Several of the magazines that use such photos have stopped paying for them. Too many people will do it for a photo credit and a few free issues. The cash pay-outs from the publications that still do pay might get you a night in a Motel 6....or perhaps a Super 8, if you've got something really good!
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:20 PM   #21
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Gotta say Yahoo is quick. All my photos have been removed from his account due to copyright infringement charges.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:38 PM   #22
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Gotta say Yahoo is quick. All my photos have been removed from his account due to copyright infringement charges.
Well damn! At least one company still pays attention and does the right thing. Yahoo stock just went up in my book. Congrats, Tom!
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
That's the problem with this country - THAT use to be enough, but now - I'll bet you could sue for undue stress, triple damages, Flickr, RP, Comcast, ect..

/Mitch
I was wondering what THE problem was.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:38 AM   #24
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Gotta say Yahoo is quick. All my photos have been removed from his account due to copyright infringement charges.

Great to hear!
I saw some other RP photos on there, I sent him a message through flicker and asked if he was getting permission...he replied "YES I GET permission"
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:28 AM   #25
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Well, this is what he just sent me:

Quote:
From:


NEW ENGLAND CENTRAL RAILROAD
David Adams
Subject:

sPhotoNano FUCK YOU


YOU R GOING TO DIE NanosPhoto I MY GOING DELETE MY ACCOUNT BECAUSE YOU STAY OUT MY LIFE FUCK YOU
Guess I now need to lodge a harassment/threat complaint...
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