Why EMD > GE

[Freericks]

Originally Posted by Soo 6060

But why does everyone have to bash my opinion?

I've got no dog in this fight. Last good looking GE was the cab unit set of demonstrators that ran on the Erie and then UP bought in the 1950s.

Last good looking EMD was the FP45.

But here's the thing... I just gave an opinion, and everyone is now free to jump on and attack it. Why? Because it is just that... an opinion, my feelings (possibly based on some objective data, possibily purely subjective, however, either way, by its very nature, an attack itself on someone else's opinion).

There are folk who think the U25C was a great looking locomotive. My first statement above, whether true or not for me, is still an attack on their opinion, because it tacitly states that I am saying that my opinion is better than theirs.

It doesn't matter what board you post on, or what topic you choose, if you take a side on something (swimming pools are ugly, Kia's are cheap, rocky road is the best ice cream) you will have other people who feel differently read that and feel challenged.

If you want to post an opinion like EMD is greater than GE, you just have to accept that you are starting a battle. If you are up for the battle, have fun at it. If you don't want the battle, you're better off posting less opinion and more requests for advice and assistance. It' 100% up to you, which you prefer.

[coborn35]

Wow. Give this fool the banhammer already.
And for the record Jim, no one refers to it as driving. That was annoying me too
In the UK you drive, in the US you "run" or "operate" a locomotive.

[CN Railfan]

I just enjoy getting out and capturing whatever railroad action I can chance upon.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by coborn35

And for the record Jim, no one refers to it as driving. That was annoying me too
In the UK you drive, in the US you "run" or "operate" a locomotive.

I couldn't care less what anyone refers to it as. Simply put, it's driving.

[mark woody]

Originally Posted by JimThias

I couldn't care less what anyone refers to it as. Simply put, it's driving.

Agreed. Over here Locomotive Enginemen [proper term] are called enginemen over there they are engineers, long story short they are train drivers.

[coborn35]

Fine by me, just sounds really dumb.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by coborn35

Fine by me, just sounds really dumb.

Sorry, can't help you with that one.

[coborn35]

Doesnt need any helping, to each his own.

[BarrySr]

Originally Posted by Soo 6060

...They have garbage horns...

Damned garbage horns! Always get in my way when I have to remove them before I take out the trash.

Oh; and yeah, those stupid garbage horns REALLY get annoying when I'm checking in the WM trucks to the landfill here in Lewisville, TX. I mean, can you IMAGINE the sound of HUNDREDS of garbage horns going off in those trucks?! Can't hardly hear yourself think!

[BarrySr]

Originally Posted by Soo 6060

...Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

Glad to meet you, sir. We're gonna get along juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine; hehehe....

[BarrySr]

Originally Posted by Freericks

There are folk who think the U25C was a great looking locomotive.

Huh? You talkin' to me; you TALK - IN' ta ME?!

I think you're talking about, ohhh, maybe 2 - 3 people...

[JRMDC]

Somehow already thin attempts at humor fall even flatter when expressed 18 days after the previous post in a thread.

[EMD]

First off, I’m kindda embarrassed that my first reply in this forum goes to a”which one is better” kind of topic.

My opinion is that you guys (I’m not American) should be proud of your country’s rail heritage, especially the diesels’. I think that what US has produced thus far is of an excellence of itself.
I love US engines, their looks, power but especially their sounds. They’re unique and I’m sure they’re good, reliable and effective too, otherwise you would start importing locos.

I’m also one that is a little EMD biased. And that is mainly because – from what I’ve read, seen or discussed – they seem more in line with the general view of what’s more American kind of way, if you understand what I mean. Kindda like: why most truckers prefer Peterbilts to K-Whoppers or Fords? Looks, sounds and mostly depending to which fan side you’re talking to.
But I also like what GE is building and boy, do I miss ALCO? I’ve met more people of an advanced age telling me that if they could run trains again, they would only choose Alcos if they could… Yet Alco, in spite of their huge know-how, well built machines and a decent fan base had to dip the flag and admit that others were better; not particularly at building locos but at the whole spectrum of surviving the business of building locos. ‘Cose yes, after all, it’s a business.

EMDs are better then GEs? I don’t think so. Besides, there might be tons of reasons why Amtrak chose a GE replacement for their EMD F40PHs. It’s probably because GE spends a lot more time in R&D of other areas like speed, economy, foreign technology, design features and the likes; in other words being the builder that’s more open to other less American ideas…
But then again, ALCO built legends: the Challengers and the BigBoys. EMD did it too with SD40 series. Yet GE, all taken, appears to have failed in this department. Could it also be this that boosts the “Boo-GE” camp????

One has also to remember that EMD was always kind of the smaller of the two in terms of finances. That surely impacts on a series of things that limits other things. Now with a new-found rich parent in Caterpillar I wonder what new things would flash the EMD badge to the future?

Both are great. Both have (like all things) pluses and minuses.
But in the end, be proud you have them!

[Andrew Hamblyn]

Yay!! A GE vs EMD debate!

Here in li'l ol' New Zealand, on he mainlin we have two models of EMD export locos (both built by GMDD Canada) and one built by GE.

Personally I am a big fan of our 35 year old GE's (rebuilt several times over) than our 30 year old rebuilt GM's.

Why? Well the GE's ( http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=364839 ) are heavier, have more horsepower, will pull anything and all have recently (last 5 years or so) been rebuilt with Brightstar control systems and brand new cabs with very good ergonomics for the LE's. They are very comfy and uber reliable.

Now, to be fair, our GM's are only 2400hp (turbo 645-12) vs our GE's 3000hp (7fdl12) and are about 10 tons lighter, and quite slippery on their feet.
( http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307041 )

Unmolested the GM's were pretty responsive compared to the GE's and when fitted with a locally made wheelslip module ( Maxitrax ) they could pull like nothing, just somewhat slower than the GE's.
The Maxitrax modules wore out, and the designer fled the country and took his intellectual property with him so our railway boffins decided that GE's Brightstar system would be a good replacement to manage the GM locos, but how sadly wrong they were, and they turned an ok loco into a dog really quickly.
Long story short, they stopped fitting Brightstar to the GM locos and started using the big GE's on services to replace the now useless GM locos.

Our GM's were rebuilt in the early 90's, fitted with turbos locally and had extra weight added, but now 20 years on they shake and rattle and bounce and wobble something feirce and not very nice to operate....

Plus our GE's spit out flames, sound fantastic and go hard. Also due to the local operation I spend more time in GE's than GM's.... sweet!

Andrew Hamblyn
Loco Engineer,
Kiwi Rail
NZ

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by EMD

I’m also one that is a little EMD biased. And that is mainly because – from what I’ve read, seen or discussed – they seem more in line with the general view of what’s more American kind of way, if you understand what I mean.

Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that!

[jnohallman]

Originally Posted by JimThias

Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that!

GE has also apparently found out a way to avoid paying taxes, which is also the "American way" . . .

Jon

[JRMDC]

Originally Posted by JimThias

Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that!

Well, how much more "American" can one get than General Motors, as in baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet?

Originally Posted by jnohallman

GE has also apparently found out a way to avoid paying taxes, which is also the "American way" . . .

Jon

ha ha ha ha, sad but true

I presume that GM, having received billions in a bailout, or the government having lost billions during its period of ownership, or whatever the details are, is also practicing a form of the "American way".

Please, please, let's not get into an argument about whether the bailout or TARP, etc., were worth it! Let's just enjoy train photography here.

[Freericks]

Originally Posted by JimThias

Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that!

More American that General Motors?

You ever hear the quote, "As GM goes, so goes the nation?"

How about "What's good for General Motors is good for the country and vice-versa?"

As J noted, "They go together, in the good old USA, baseball and hotdogs, apple pie, and cheverolet."

"See the USA in your Cheverolet."

None of which is to say GE isn't American, but it doesn't get more American than GM.

Willie Durant is spinning in his grave.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by Freericks

None of which is to say GE isn't American, but it doesn't get more American than GM.

To me, GE is more of an American iconic business name than GM, but that's just me.

[troy12n]

Originally Posted by JimThias

To me, GE is more of an American iconic business name than GM, but that's just me.

Neither is as American as POM Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by troy12n

Neither is as American as POM Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold

F-C-I-G Awesome.

That is all

Loyd L.

[jnohallman]

EMD is not the same as GM. It didn't start out under GM, and hasn't been a part of GM since 2005. That doesn't make it any less American, though.

Jon

[stlgevo51]

Aren't you guys forgetting ALCO?

[Freericks]

Originally Posted by jnohallman

EMD is not the same as GM. It didn't start out under GM, and hasn't been a part of GM since 2005. That doesn't make it any less American, though.

Jon

Many of GM's parts began as independent companies.

General Electric began in the locomotive business as Alco's partner.

Regarding Alco, they've sadly been gone for 42 years (Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin and Lima have been gone for longer).

[J]

Originally Posted by Freericks

Regarding Alco, they've sadly been gone for 42 years (Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin and Lima have been gone for longer).

As for locomotive (in North America) go, that is correct. India has a huge fleet of Alco-powered locomotive built under license and Fairbanks Morse still markets their 38D opposed piston engine and the Alco 251 engine for industrial power uses.

http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/engine_fm_alco_251.php