Old 01-28-2015, 04:59 PM   #1
J-M Frybourg
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Default Damn stupid backlit rejection

Dear all,

I leave it to your appreciation and comments what kind of pictures can't make it to RPN, the so-called "best railroad photos on the net", because of the idiot backlit dogma.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...18&key=1411280
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:15 PM   #2
J-M Frybourg
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Default The best light for photography, including railroad photography!

I affirm that this kind of light is simply the best light for photography.

I have learnt that at a school of photography about 35 years ago and I have got the same advice again from excellent photographers.

Light coming from 3 quarters behind gives depth, highlights textures, accentuates the main subject, etc. If this applies to photography in general, is there any particular reason why it should not apply to railroad photography???
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:16 PM   #3
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Yup, it's backlit. It's also a fine photo. The lighting on the locomotives is a little hot (overexposed) so either reduce overall exposure or tone down the highlights. Sending you private message.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:20 PM   #4
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The engines are nuked. And RP isn't trying to alter your photographic world. They don't want backlit images here. Burger King doesn't want to serve Big Macs. The internet hates vertical compositions. Kinda how it goes.

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Old 01-28-2015, 05:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post

RP isn't trying to alter your photographic world. They don't want backlit images here.
Sorry, this is not backlit, this is side lit. When a picture is back lit, the main subject only shows shadows.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by J-M Frybourg View Post
Sorry, this is not backlit, this is side lit. When a picture is back lit, the main subject only shows shadows.
We all know that in RP parlance, this is backlit. Doesn't matter what you call it, just what they call it. Also, it looks unlevel to the naked eye ever so slightly.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
Burger King doesn't want to serve Big Macs.
False. Behold, the I-can't-believe-they-couldn't-come-up-with-a-more-original-name Big King:
http://www.bk.com/menu-item/big-king

But the real question, what does Daym think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5k8nem9oCk

Also, not enough light on the nose for the shot in question. Not a new policy...been around since the start here.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CSX1702 View Post
Pay attention to the rejection past the first word. They would like more light on the nose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween View Post
Also, not enough light on the nose for the shot in question. Not a new policy...been around since the start here.
Derek, Chris, I think J-M knows darn well why the rejection was issued; his complaint is that RP should not reject this sort of shot for that reason.

Or maybe I am putting my words into his mouth. I certainly don't think they should reject for dark noses when the nose is so small in the frame. In fact, I thought this one would pass on that basis (but not others).
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:46 PM   #9
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I think J-M knows darn well why the rejection was issued; his complaint is that RP should not reject this sort of shot for that reason.
JRMDC, you are perfectly right, it is the rejection motive that should definitely be rejected. It is totally inconsistent with the self-proclaimed "Best railroad photos on the net" tagline.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween View Post
False. Behold, the I-can't-believe-they-couldn't-come-up-with-a-more-original-name Big King:
http://www.bk.com/menu-item/big-king
Guess I need to eat more fast food.

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Old 01-28-2015, 06:41 PM   #11
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In my experience, it falls within the nose-dark-but-very-small-relative-to-frame category which, it has been my impression, RP has been accepting, of late.

Aside from that, side of the train is definitely blown out. I find that, as a general principle, if a shot gives a poor impression generally, the screeners will find a reason to kick it out and it may not be the best or even correct reason. This one screams "don't accept me". Hopefully an easy fix, as overall it is reasonable.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:56 PM   #12
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Very challenging lighting conditions to say the least. Would a pseudo-HDR correct and bring into balance? It's worth a try.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Backlit (Nose): The nose of the lead unit is too dark due to backlighting.
Pay attention to the rejection past the first word. They would like more light on the nose.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-M Frybourg View Post
Dear all,

I leave it to your appreciation and comments what kind of pictures can't make it to RPN, the so-called "best railroad photos on the net", because of the idiot backlit dogma.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...18&key=1411280
Agreed. Really nice shot, but as others have pointed out, the train is too bright. Some quick selective use of the shadow/highlights tool can fix that.
This would probably look better using the raw file.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:40 PM   #15
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@J: I don't really care either way...I just needed to add something so my post wasn't just about Burger King cloning McDonald's.

But, aside from the nose light issue, assuming the screener's looked past that, the photo suffers from a nuclear blowout on the sides (as previously mentioned) as well as composition (the train is right smack dab in the middle of the image with the bridge supports being awkwardly, IMO, cut off on the bottom). So nose light or not, J-M is a much better photographer than this shot implies to get hung up on a long-standing rule here...
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:47 PM   #16
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@J: I don't really care either way...I just needed to add something so my post wasn't just about Burger King cloning McDonald's.
Is there some social more that precludes a post solely about delectable foods?
Quote:
So nose light or not, J-M is a much better photographer than this shot implies to get hung up on a long-standing rule here...
What he said...
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:52 PM   #17
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As for the bright reflection on the side of the engines, it is weird that here in Europe, we are looking for such bright reflections when the sun is low. We consider that this additional contrast adds interest to the pictures. Definitely not the same taste on the 2 sides of the Atlantic!

RP.net will remain very American, not universal, if they don't acknowledge - and welcome - the diversity of tastes and preferences in photography on Earth.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-M Frybourg View Post
As for the bright reflection on the side of the engines, it is weird that here in Europe, we are looking for such bright reflections when the sun is low. We consider that this additional contrast adds interest to the pictures. Definitely not the same taste on the 2 sides of the Atlantic!

RP.net will remain very American, not universal, if they don't acknowledge - and welcome - the diversity of tastes and preferences in photography on Earth.
Jean-Marc, I understand your frustration with the rejection as I see absolutely nothing wrong with the dimly lit nose. It's really irrelevant to the rest of the scene, which I view as quite dramatic with the lighting. But the issue here is not the bright locomotives. A few of us just mentioned toning them down as an "oh, by the way" thing.

Regardless if the locomotives are as bright as your original or toned down a bit in my example above, this shot should have been accepted. But I'm not a screener, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:07 PM   #19
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I have to agree the nose has plenty of light and is not an issue at all.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:32 PM   #20
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I agree about the blown out parts of the locomotives. This looks like a classic case of carefully selecting an exposure before the train arrives but not having a bright reflective surface to help you pick the right exposure. The test pics look perfect but when you look at the pics of the train...I am always having this problemo.

I suggest turning the exposure down to the point of the details in the trees' shadows disappearing and boosting the color to bring out the blues and yellows. It gives a nice alpine late afternoon feel.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:00 PM   #21
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J-M, I find that glint rather unattractive. To me, glint inherently has the warm qualities of sunrise/sunset direct light. This is a harsh light. It looks like "annoying sun reflection", not glint. It detracts rather than enhances. Maybe the angle with respect to the sun is unfortunate. Maybe you needed the train 15 minutes later. Maybe you need to revisit the processing. Maybe my tastes are simply way different than yours.

I get that you are intending glint, I simply don't think you captured it well.

My tastes only ...

But, please, don't go all "Europe" on us. Photographers the world over love glint, including in these parts. And RP has many accepted glint shots.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:34 PM   #22
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A whole lot of area on those two locomotives with no data. I'd fix that, and then resume the battle to destroy the RP foundation.

Or do like me, and just don't give a damn. It's much easier that way.

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Old 01-29-2015, 12:50 AM   #23
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While others have suggested valid insight on certain issues, I agree with you 100% that the rejection is in fact a "damn stupid backlit rejection".

I'll bet lots of frustration was resolved when RP amended the "unlevel" rejection to state CW or CCW. Why not do the same for the backlit rejection? Amend to state reasons other then "nose light" for the rejection. AND MAKE USE OF "Comments from the screener" on an appeal when merited.

As for being over exposed - I've ran into this often (shooting stainless steal Metroliners with regularity). I'll set the exposure, drop a stop for the reflection, and hope for the best. However... there are times when I look at the preview and my first thought is "Damn, I nuked the reflection", yet think about it - "in real life", as seen with ones own eyes, the scene itself - "in real life" is in fact blown out! I mean, who here ever wondered why you can't see solar flares on the Sun while looking at shot with the setting Sun?

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Old 01-29-2015, 02:09 AM   #24
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However... there are times when I look at the preview and my first thought is "Damn, I nuked the reflection", yet think about it - "in real life", as seen with ones own eyes, the scene itself - "in real life" is in fact blown out! I mean, who here ever wondered why you can't see solar flares on the Sun while looking at shot with the setting Sun?
True.

But.

Every scene can be captured accurately, including blown out reflection scenes. Doesn't mean every scene should be captured. I'm not seeing this one as a good shot if one is going to treat the reflection as is.

There is a big reason why, when I look at the mirror every morning, I don't think "oooh - self-portrait!!!" Don't need to capture that scene.

My tastes only. (For all I know, someone would LOVE a J-mirror shot!)
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:27 PM   #25
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I can say the photo is one I would have been very happy to take. I have appealed some nose rejection photos and succeeded but they were NO where near this type of image. It seems the nose must either be even lit with the rest of the train or completely dark where at some point it goes from being "bad" to being "good". The major problem I can see that there are lots of very good or at least more interesting images that people do not even try to post or are just rejected and lesser ones are accepted simply because they meet certain standards.
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