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Old 04-21-2013, 08:55 PM   #1
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Default "The photo was altered by removing a photographer from the hill"

Nice to see this could be done, stated explicitly, and accepted on RP.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:06 PM   #2
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I agree. Technically, it's now an "illustration," but a darn good one at that. The photographer should be commended for his honesty----and RP.net should be commended for accepting the shot.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:16 PM   #3
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Now if we can just start allowing for Dash 9's to be digitally removed from consists.....
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos1 View Post
Now if we can just start allowing for Dash 9's to be digitally removed from consists.....
CSX is allowed to alter consists on calendar shots!
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:50 AM   #5
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Not a fan of the manipulation nor the execution...
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
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Nice to see this could be done, stated explicitly, and accepted on RP.
As it should be. There should be no issue with removing movable objects that aren't a fixed part of a scene. It's no different from cloning a piece of trash out of a scene, IMO.

With either real time cloning, "Hey, get the F out of the way!" or post-processing cloning, the end result is the same.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:18 AM   #7
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Well Im honest because as a full time photojournalist I would loose my job if I did something like this on a newspaper assignment photo. But seems how I was shooting this photo just for me, I removed the guy who was very distracting from the frame and then I mentioned to play it safe, that the photo was edited by removing the photog. I never do this for my job like I said, but seems how this was personal use and not media usage J see no problem in what I did and I was forward about what I did to the photo.
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I shoot other things more than I shoot trains.....

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Old 04-22-2013, 02:22 AM   #8
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No reason to defend it, Ben, the guy shouldn't have been there in the first place.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:37 AM   #9
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This one kind of hits close to home.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:56 AM   #10
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You didnt go far enough Troy, in the time you have been gone it has been found acceptable to alter images as long as you fully remove the NS Dash 9, not just photoshop out the high sun shadows.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:19 AM   #11
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There is a difference, Troy. Your two alterations (that are the ones I think you are speaking of) were alterations of the subject of the photo.

This discussion is about an alteration of a movable object that was not the subject of the image. Now, does that make a difference?

To me it does. To others it may not. I'm not judging by the way. Just saying, I would personally remove a person from an image, but there are other manipulations I might not make... and it's all personal, where the line is, once you start to manipulate.

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Old 04-30-2013, 03:50 AM   #12
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This one kind of hits close to home.
TROY!

You're back from the year long walk in the desert.

Outstanding.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
You're two alterations...


Did you do that intentionally just to F with my head?

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #14
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I do get what Troy is saying in a way. The guidelines don't seem to leave a lot of wiggle room for cloning things out.
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Manipulation:

The purpose of our website is to display genuine, authentic photographs of trains and railroad related scenes. Bearing this in mind, digital manipulation of photographs (beyond standard post-processing techniques such as levelling, sharpening, dust removal, etc.) is not permitted on photographs submitted to RailPictures.Net.
This isn't really geared toward Ben and I wasn't at this 630 run, so I don't know where the person was standing who got the clone tool. (I went the week before in Spencer when they left the diesels at the yard.) I obviously understand why Troy's Amtrak shot caused the forums to blow up for a day or two. But it seems a bit odd to allow a person to be cloned out of your scene, but not allow a train to be moved in another,

I clone only dust spots and birds that look like dust spots out of my shots.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
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It's about time RP got into the 2nd decade of the 21st century. (I hear a train coming! Now where's my 1902 Kodak Brownie? )


Kent in SD
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:15 PM   #16
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Joe, those guidelines are ancient and I wasn't aware anyone with RP experience still took them word for word.

I can see a substantial difference between removing a secondary or tertiary object and moving the primary subject across the frame. Seems like a bright line to me, but it is subjective, to be sure. But then photography is subjective, RP screening is subjective. I don't see a problem with this. Just another thing for all of us to disagree upon. Actually, it's a hidden strategy to maintain participation in the forums!
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:57 PM   #17
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I get the difference in what Troy did compared to what Ben did. But I get why Troy might be a little confused too. (The main difference is that one of them did not try to hide what they did while Troy did.) Ben himself said he wouldn't be able to put the altered photo in his newspaper and I suspect a railroading magazine would not publish it either. Going back to those guidelines that no one takes seriously, it says that publishers often look at the database to find pictures to use.

http://www.railpictures.net/addphotos/guidelines.php
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post


Did you do that intentionally just to F with my head?


Twas posting while lubricated by a glass of wine. Sorry.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
There is a difference, Troy. Your two alterations (that are the ones I think you are speaking of) were alterations of the subject of the photo.

You're right, I would have cloned out the train.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:35 PM   #20
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Lightbulb I clones, therefore I am.

What is wrong with cloning out the doof who didn't observe the photo line?

How does that change what the train is doing?

It is not like you added a unit, or changed the number on a car.

Sort of like cloning out trash, or a pole.

You could do that with film and print paper, why can't you do that now?

And I thought Troy's transgression involved ripples on a pond, or something.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
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And I thought Troy's transgression involved ripples on a pond, or something.
Actually I think truth be known, I was banished because I was talking in a not so flattering way about our pal Casey a few days before an the "reflectiongate" was just the straw that broke the camels back. Only one person knows, and he's not talking.

It dont matter. What I did probably wasn't right. I think because of who I am I got more backlash than anyone else would have got, and I probably deserved it.

I have lots of photos backlogged which will entertain you once I have some time to actually upload them.

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Old 04-30-2013, 05:47 PM   #22
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Yeah, Troy, because you were the only person talking trash about Casey.
[quote=Holloran Grade;166035]What is wrong with cloning out the doof who didn't observe the photo line?

How does that change what the train is doing?

Sort of like cloning out trash, or a pole.

You could do that with film and print paper, why can't you do that now?/QUOTE]
Frankly, I'd love for either Chris to come here and answer those questions because somewhere there is a faint line between what is allowed and what is not allowed. As for me, I don't clone out anything but dust spots and birds that look like dust spots, so perhaps I am biased. But according to the guidelines, which as was pointed out earlier, are old and hardly paid attention to, cloning out anything is against the rules.

Yes, I know others do it, don't acknowledge it and are never caught. (Or in Troy's case, well, nevermind.) I'm a "see scene, shoot scene" type of guy, so I would have let the guy stay in the photo even if it meant not being able to put the photo on RP. Again, I'm not really meaning to discuss this specific photo, but rather get a clarification on what else may now be allowed.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #23
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Well, here is an example of what I think is acceptable - and it is not part of the DB.

See photo:


Blurred Shot Los Angeles Railway #3100 [OERM Collection] by El Roco Photography, on Flickr


I took this guy's head out of the shot.

Name:  Head Test.jpg
Views: 205
Size:  117.9 KB


Big deal, I am not doing this for a news paper and this is art, just like airbrushing the zit off the centerfold's rear end (they do stuff like that all the time in portraits).

Sure I could have been anal and asked him to move, but everyone was having fun and I placed his head in a location that was easily cloned out.

With stuff like this, I just don't think it is that big of a deal.


I think putting stuff in that was not there in the first place is what they are trying to prevent, such as:

Name:  Railfaning Mars SM.jpg
Views: 207
Size:  63.0 KB

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Old 04-30-2013, 09:13 PM   #24
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Wow! I know I am inherently biased against this sort of shot (well, I could call that "bias" mere common sense and taste!) but that is one horrible looking shot, head or no head.

I realize that tastes differ and I am but one person.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post

As for me, I don't clone out anything but dust spots and birds that look like dust spots, so perhaps I am biased. .......I'm a "see scene, shoot scene" type of guy, so I would have let the guy stay in the photo even if it meant not being able to put the photo on RP.
I do understand and respect your POV here, but...... you come from a very specific genre of photography. It dates back to Victorian times where the philosophy was that photography was to show what something actually looks like, and paintings were the creative medium. My photo background/philosophy is from the other main genre--Pictorialism. For those like me, a photo isn't about a showing an object, but more about about giving a feeling about the place/object. It's blending the creative imagination formerly reserved only for paintings and opening up photography to a more personal interpretation. And that makes anything in a photo fair game, more or less.

Pictorialism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictorialism


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