Old 12-08-2008, 01:04 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by travsirocz
I should have been clearer. I was seeing what people thought of the concept of a left to right pace or pan shot whith some of the train moving back to front. I also like the idea of shooting thru stuff where the pace shot still leaves the subject clear. I know there is to much brush and also the lower part of the photo cuts off the train so besides that (if that was missing) I was wondering what you thought. I just didn't want a bunch of replies stating the obvious.
One doesn't think left to right pan when one looks at that shot - at least to me; I didn't even realize it was a pan until you told me. My follow-up reaction is that a pan won't work very well with blurred foreground obstruction to this extent or in this pattern.

This shot might work very well with shallow DoF so the train stands out anyway, but blurring the obstruction by panning seems not to work, certainly not in this case.

I have no comment on the left/right back/front juxtaposition as this shot is hardly a good one to evaluate on that basis.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JRMDC

I have no comment on the left/right back/front juxtaposition as this shot is hardly a good one to evaluate on that basis.
Do you know where in my vocabulary this word is? juxtaposition - neither do I.

You can buy books about it at amazon.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by travsirocz
Do you know where in my vocabulary this word is? juxtaposition - neither do I.

You can buy books about it at amazon.
Not only the book (looks like scifi; I've heard of Piers Anthony but I can't recall in what context):
http://www.amazon.com/Juxtaposition-.../dp/0345349342

but also the music!
http://www.amazon.com/Juxtaposition-.../dp/B0002HV67W

Never heard of them, here is a quote from the comments: "Radian play on the outer fringes of the already left-of-center post-rock heading." Whatever that means.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
I hope you're f****** kidding.
Who stomped on the bridge and awakened Mike?
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by travsirocz
Do you know where in my vocabulary this word is? juxtaposition - neither do I.

You can buy books about it at amazon.
I don't see how it applies here since it refers to things side by side...............
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:50 PM   #31
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I don't see how it applies here since it refers to things side by side...............
OK, I'll accept that, juxtaposition has a narrower definition than I remembered it to have. Maybe commingled is a better term. I can't think of the exact word I want, but it comes down to the concept of the left/right pan appearing in the same composition with the back to front movement.

Which is worth consideration, but not in an image with so much obscured. I suspect, however, that the back/front movement will not be particularly noticeable - it will just appear as the background out of focus. Maybe if one gets much higher above the train one can get both in and have them apparent.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:53 PM   #32
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by J Douglas Moore
Who stomped on the bridge and awakened Mike?
Once upon a time there were three railfans, who were to go up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects, and the name of all three was "Gruff."

On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker.

So first of all came the youngest Railfan Gruff to cross the bridge.

"Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll .

"Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Railfan Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects," said the railfan, with such a small voice.

"Don't be an idiot. Now, I'm coming to take your camera and critique your rule-breaking photography," said the troll.

"Oh, no! pray don't take my camera. It's just a little point-and-shoot, too little," said the railfan. "Wait a bit till the second Railfan Gruff comes. He's got a DSLR."

"Well, be off with you, but don't shoot anything but roster shots and wedgies," said the troll.

A little while after came the second Railfan Gruff to cross the bridge.

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"Oh, it's the second Railfan Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects," said the railfan, who hadn't such a small voice.

"Pull your head out of your @$$. Now I'm coming to take your camera and critique your photos," said the troll.

"Oh, no! Don't take my camera. Wait a little till the big Railfan Gruff comes. He's got an FX sensor camera and L glass."

"Very well! Be off with you, but don't shoot anything but roster shots and wedgies," said the troll.

But just then up came the big Railfan Gruff .

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the railfan was so heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him.

"Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"It's I! The big Railfan Gruff ," said the railfan, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own.

"I hope you're f*****g kidding. Now I 'm coming to take your camera and critique your photography," roared the troll.

"Well, come along! I've got my own esthetic idiom,
And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears;
I've got besides two big hardback books by Ted Benson and Parker Lamb,
And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones.

That was what the big railfan said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked his eyes out with his zoom lens, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the railfans got some some really cool impressionistic pictures, including a few with a Lens Baby, that were not only Screener's Choice at RP.NET, they were also People's Choice, too. And if the database hasn't crashed, why, they're still there; and so,

Snip, snap, snout.
This tale's told out.
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:10 PM   #34
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This has to be the strangest thread on this forum...

As for the shot itself: I'm not a big fan. The engine simply looks fuzzy which is a much bigger distraction (to me at least) than the obstructions.
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Craft
Once upon a time there were three railfans, who were to go up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects, and the name of all three was "Gruff."

On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker.

So first of all came the youngest Railfan Gruff to cross the bridge.

"Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll .

"Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Railfan Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects," said the railfan, with such a small voice.

"Don't be an idiot. Now, I'm coming to take your camera and critique your rule-breaking photography," said the troll.

"Oh, no! pray don't take my camera. It's just a little point-and-shoot, too little," said the railfan. "Wait a bit till the second Railfan Gruff comes. He's got a DSLR."

"Well, be off with you, but don't shoot anything but roster shots and wedgies," said the troll.

A little while after came the second Railfan Gruff to cross the bridge.

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"Oh, it's the second Railfan Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to shoot impressionistic interpretations of rail subjects," said the railfan, who hadn't such a small voice.

"Pull your head out of your @$$. Now I'm coming to take your camera and critique your photos," said the troll.

"Oh, no! Don't take my camera. Wait a little till the big Railfan Gruff comes. He's got an FX sensor camera and L glass."

"Very well! Be off with you, but don't shoot anything but roster shots and wedgies," said the troll.

But just then up came the big Railfan Gruff .

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the railfan was so heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him.

"Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"It's I! The big Railfan Gruff ," said the railfan, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own.

"I hope you're f*****g kidding. Now I 'm coming to take your camera and critique your photography," roared the troll.

"Well, come along! I've got my own esthetic idiom,
And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears;
I've got besides two big hardback books by Ted Benson and Parker Lamb,
And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones.

That was what the big railfan said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked his eyes out with his zoom lens, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the railfans got some some really cool impressionistic pictures, including a few with a Lens Baby, that were not only Screener's Choice at RP.NET, they were also People's Choice, too. And if the database hasn't crashed, why, they're still there; and so,

Snip, snap, snout.
This tale's told out.
BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!! Very well done................
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssw9662
This has to be the strangest thread on this forum...
You have to admit, it's actually kind of funny. What's not funny though, is I wonder if our northern plains membership isn't suffering from a case of Seasonal Affective Disorder. First Mike B. spews out some expletives, and the next thing you know two other members start going at each other.

Strange...

Oh by the way, the picture doesn't really work for me either. Keep trying.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:15 PM   #37
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the next thing you know two other members start going at each other.
I missed that...who are you talking about?
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:27 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Ween
I missed that...who are you talking about?
Not you, it was John Fladung and Christopher Muller in about posts 14-16. It didn't really escalate, but the negative tone for the thread was set when Mike B. had posted his "you've got to be f------ kidding me" probably put that in motion.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:35 PM   #39
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Not you, it was John Fladung and Christopher Muller in about posts 14-16. It didn't really escalate, but the negative tone for the thread was set when Mike B. had posted his "you've got to be f------ kidding me" probably put that in motion.
I'm 99.9999999999% sure they were mocking Mike B. with their back and forth remarks...
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ween
I'm 99.9999999999% sure they were mocking Mike B. with their back and forth remarks...
Gotcha. Does anyone like Mike B.? Maybe he's just misunderstood and actually crying on the inside.
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccaranna
You have to admit, it's actually kind of funny. What's not funny though, is I wonder if our northern plains membership isn't suffering from a case of Seasonal Affective Disorder. First Mike B. spews out some expletives, and the next thing you know two other members start going at each other.

Strange...

Oh by the way, the picture doesn't really work for me either. Keep trying.
UM. Seasonal Affective Disorder............ Well isn't that SAD !! Or sorry but I am PUNishing you today
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ccaranna
Gotcha. Does anyone like Mike B.? Maybe he's just misunderstood and actually crying on the inside.

More like crying for attention and he gets it.

Responding to Mikes posts is kind of like poking a stick at a snake……. You know you really shouldn’t but it’s just too much fun not to.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:09 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by J Douglas Moore
BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!! Very well done...............
And yet, not one word of praise for the Holy Railfan Camera of CaNikon. *sniff*



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccaranna
Does anyone like Mike B.?
I neither like nor dislike him. I don't know anything about him - never met him, don't know if he's 16 or 65. All I know is what I read here. And despite the fact that he seems to have an insult ready for every photo someone posts for comments, I don't recall ever seeing him post one of his own photos, and I didn't see "Mike B." in the contributor's drop-down box.

But it's hard to like and respect someone who's a little too quick to post his opinion in a judgemental tone, then gets defensive and start hurling insults and profanities when someone disagrees with him; someone who would rather look like a stubborn fool than admit even that maybe someone else's opinion had some merit. And someone who, though every post is an insult, keeps coming back again and again instead of finding a place that he enjoys (which is very telling).

This guys that post here, some of whom I've had the pleasure of meeting trackside, are a remarkably laid-back group compared to some forms, probably because they can laugh at themselves when they put a foot in their mouth. And I'm pretty sure that if he quit hurling the first insult, was able to laugh at himself when he said something silly instead of mouthing off, and was actually nice to people for a change and offered the same respect he desires, everyone here would eventually let bygones be bygones.

But only Mike can change the way Mike posts.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by John Craft
I neither like nor dislike him. I don't know anything about him - never met him, don't know if he's 16 or 65. All I know is what I read here. And despite the fact that he seems to have an insult ready for every photo someone posts for comments, I don't recall ever seeing him post one of his own photos, and I didn't see "Mike B." in the contributor's drop-down box.

But it's hard to like and respect someone who's a little too quick to post his opinion in a judgemental tone, then gets defensive and start hurling insults and profanities when someone disagrees with him; someone who would rather look like a stubborn fool than admit even that maybe someone else's opinion had some merit. And someone who, though every post is an insult, keeps coming back again and again instead of finding a place that he enjoys (which is very telling).

This guys that post here, some of whom I've had the pleasure of meeting trackside, are a remarkably laid-back group compared to some forms, probably because they can laugh at themselves when they put a foot in their mouth. And I'm pretty sure that if he quit hurling the first insult, was able to laugh at himself when he said something silly instead of mouthing off, and was actually nice to people for a change and offered the same respect he desires, everyone here would eventually let bygones be bygones.

But only Mike can change the way Mike posts.
I've showed my photos in the forum plenty of times. I think the most recent is J showing one of mine in the skyscraper thread. I'm listed as Mike Bargmann in the drop down menu. Prepare to be disappointed.

You assessment is a reasonable one, but not correct. I don't enjoy doing anything unless it's challenging and the harder it is the better. I apply that to all my hobbies and they become more like work than fun, which is fine with me. I don't want to do something that is easy and become complacent which would make me bored and ultimately leave the hobby. Most people who railfan are just looking to have an enjoyable time and don't take it seriously. When I offer my opinion to these people about their work, they don't understand because enjoyment is more important than the result (photograph). We clash and we both put our hands in the air in frustration.

I often wonder why I keep coming back here since so many of you don't understand what I'm saying 90% of the time. I think it's much the same as it is for you guys to read my posts. It's tempting to see what the crazies are saying now and all it's takes is one click.

If you think I'm a jerk, you might be right. I'm the same person online as I am offline. If I think someone is acting like an idiot, I'm going to treat them like an idiot and it doesn't matter who they are. I probably am a nicer person offline, but that's probably because most people are a little more insecure when they aren't behind a keyboard. Regardless, show me a photo online or trackside and I'll offer you the same opinion both times. If I think I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it and I've done so several times on this forum.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:39 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travsirocz
Some of my inspiration.
Image © Ron Flanary
PhotoID: 166130
Photograph © Ron Flanary
Then I suppose this too was some of your inspiration.


Image © Ron Flanary
PhotoID: 253463
Photograph © Ron Flanary


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:45 PM   #46
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I've showed my photos in the forum plenty of times. I think the most recent is J showing one of mine in the skyscraper thread.
Mike, I don't recall seeing you post many of your pictures. And you've contradicted yourself in this post. J showing one of yours is not you posting a picture, but rather J sharing one.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:46 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain
Then I suppose this too was some of your inspiration.


Image © Ron Flanary
PhotoID: 253463
Photograph © Ron Flanary


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
lol
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:48 PM   #48
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The reasoning Mike B. uses to defend his posts/attitude goes something like, "I don't sugarcoat things...I call them like I see it. Besides, it better to be brutally honest than to try and be nicey nice."

I agree honesty is good, but there are ways to make your point and offer your opinion without coming across like a donkey or belittling towards people. He thinks that if you're taking the "kindler, gentler" way, you're sugarcoating things and telling half truths and you're just trying to get people to like you.

When I fly with someone and they have a bad landing, my critique isn't, "You suck at landing." Even though it's true, that doesn't help them. I tend to approach the critique more along the lines of here's what I saw and here's what you can try next time, here's what works for me. That's kinda how most folks offer help in the forums, but for whatever reason, Mike B. thinks the sledgehammer of truth is the only way.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:51 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan Ohio
Mike, I don't recall seeing you post many of your pictures. And you've contradicted yourself in this post. J showing one of yours is not you posting a picture, but rather J sharing one.
Ugh, it's things like this that make me question the future of humanity.

Of course when J posts a photo of mine I'm not posting it! When he did it was the most recent time a photo of mine was posted in the forum. I'm sorry if I don't feel the need to post my photos every 5 minutes. The search function for the DB is there for a reason and I want my photos to stand on their own.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
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When I fly with someone and they have a bad landing, my critique isn't, "You suck at landing." Even though it's true, that doesn't help them. I tend to approach the critique more along the lines of here's what I saw and here's what you can try next time, here's what works for me. That's kinda how most folks offer help in the forums, but for whatever reason, Mike B. thinks the sledgehammer of truth is the only way.
Rarely do I ever say "you suck at photography" or something to that effect. I usually just pick one thing and go with that. I don't want spend the time to pick apart a photo. I would probably be even less liked than I already am if I did that.
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