Old 07-17-2007, 11:20 AM   #51
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Beyond that, WE ARE AT WAR, and I'm not talking about in Iraq. In WWII people were more than happy to sacrifice a little bit of their time and convenience for the greater good of beating back the Germans and Japanese. We need to have that same attitude now, but so far it's proven to be very difficult to find. Terrorists are within our borders, it's a known fact, terrorists want to kill "the infidels" which is YOU, ME, and YOUR FAMILY and FRIENDS.

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The only "infidels" are in Washington... don't listen to government propaganda about staged attacks. Goebbels would be proud...

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Old 07-17-2007, 03:27 PM   #52
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The only "infidels" are in Washington... don't listen to government propaganda about staged attacks. Goebbels would be proud...

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Guess that makes me one of the infidels since I work for the government in the intelligence community?

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Old 07-17-2007, 10:27 PM   #53
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I was taking a photo of a conrail locomotive in a CSXT yard in VA.i did not even get a photo of the locomotive i was ready to push the shutter when the Train Master told me you can not take pictures on their property.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:09 AM   #54
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I was taking a photo of a conrail locomotive in a CSXT yard in VA.i did not even get a photo of the locomotive i was ready to push the shutter when the Train Master told me you can not take pictures on their property.
Interesting story, as I just took a picture of an ex-Conrail unit in a CSX yard today and was waved at by several of the employees going by in crew vehicles and trains.

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Old 07-18-2007, 12:50 AM   #55
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I was taking a photo of a conrail locomotive in a CSXT yard in VA.i did not even get a photo of the locomotive i was ready to push the shutter when the Train Master told me you can not take pictures on their property.
I may be mis-reading this, but were you on the yard property? I'm not saying that I haven't "trespassed" by crossing the tracks to get better sun, etc., but I would not just wonder onto yard property without permission. I have went to the offices and asked permission to explore and photograph yards a few times. I have never been denied access, but I was given certain stipulations which I adheared to in respect to being allowed aceess. I usually get the "I can't tell you you can, but don't go here, here,..." Just this weekend I stopped by a yard/operations office in NY, and I was escorted around and through the engine house by an employee. We shot some good B.S. while I was there. My wife waited in the car and was a little impatient when I got back. It was a small weekend trip for her B-day, and she specifically said "NO TRAINS", but I couldn't just drive by a known railfan friendly RR. All I had to do was sign a release of responsability waiver incase I turned an ankle or whatever on their property.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:42 AM   #56
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The implication is there that he was on CSX property, but it may just be worded badly. Since some people point out that I do I do misspell words from time to time, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when they type somethng in a forum. in Cayce where I shoot at the CS yard as do others, we just pull off tot he side of the road and wait. The CSX employees might throw up a hand at me, but usually they ignore people completely and I get my shots.


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Old 07-18-2007, 04:23 PM   #57
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in Cayce where I shoot at the CS yard as do others, we just pull off tot he side of the road and wait.
^^^LOL
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:46 PM   #58
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Doh! A buddy of mine and I got "kicked off" a train today. We were at the local popular railfanning spot (dead end road at the edge of the CSX yard) and as a Canadian Pacific train was going through air tests before departing, the engineer waved to us to come aboard. We obliged and climbed aboard the gevo and checked out the cab (wow, is all I can say). After a few minutes, a CSX safety rep came walking into the cab and asked, "Who are these two guys?" to the engineer. After saying "we're railfans", he said, "You can't be up here due to safety and liability issues." We quickly departed the engine and walked back to our cars. He came over a few minutes later and was pretty cool to us, simply explaining the liability issues and whatnot. We introduced ourselves and shared a few laughs and said, "sorry, we won't do it again." He didn't mind us where we normally sit, but he just didn't want us going near the tracks or the equipment, which I can respect. But when invited by an engineer, how do you turn that down?? The first thing that pops into your head isn't "No, I probably shouldn't because I'm breaking the rules." It's more like, "I'd loved to!" haha
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:49 PM   #59
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Boy Jim, talk about bittersweet. You got to go into the cab and then got kicked out!
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:50 AM   #60
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I dont know about you guys but I'm sure as hell not gonna live my life in fear! The thing I do is just ask a crew or someone who works for the RR where I can sit and not trespass or get in trouble. If they say, "Over there is just fine" and someone tells me to leave, I'll tell them so-so told me I could sit here! Usually if its public property you're in the gold. But I live in Maine, and with no Class 1's in our great state, it really isn't a problem with Shortlines/Regionals.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:25 PM   #61
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Something that has been overlooked in the above discussions is that many railroads now have policies requiring crews to report all photographers and other "suspicious persons" to the dispatcher. Failing to do so can get the crew in a jam. Railroads are notorious for setting up their crews using "Weed Weasels" (A Trainmaster hiding in the weeds to catch set-up infractions). The crew member that reports you may fully realize that you are no threat to him, but his failure to report you may be a threat to his job.

There are a lot of misinformed police officers out there who have never read the Constitution. Mao Tsedong famously said, "Power grows out of the barrel of a gun." and a lot of cops instinctively understand that! Unless you like tilting with windmills, and have plenty of time and money at your disposal, your best response is always "yes sir, no sir and thank you sir" when dealing with people wearing guns and uniforms who can make your life difficult. Lose the war, win the battle.

If that doesn't do it, remember the badge number and call the newspaper, the TV station, your congressman and the ACLU once you are back on the street.

What really bothers me about all this though is that once you are stopped and interviewed, your name will be in a law enforcement data base and the next time you are stopped, your name will pop up showing a prior law enforcement contact. It won't say that you were on public property, minding your own business, just that you have been entered in previously. Your next time may not go as well as a result. This chilling effect on our civil rights worries me and it ought to worry everyone.

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Old 07-29-2007, 05:37 PM   #62
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What really bothers me about all this though is that once you are stopped and interviewed, your name will be in a law enforcement data base and the next time you are stopped, your name will pop up showing a prior law enforcement contact.
Well that leaves the big 'So What?' Your name may be in the database, but it's not in there on the negative side of things. If no laws were broken previously, you have nothing to worry about, especially if you're still doing nothing wrong in the present.

Hey, I can be paranoid all day, but what fun is that?
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:36 AM   #63
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Well that leaves the big 'So What?' Your name may be in the database, but it's not in there on the negative side of things. If no laws were broken previously, you have nothing to worry about, especially if you're still doing nothing wrong in the present.

Hey, I can be paranoid all day, but what fun is that?

Chris, I can see where Michael is coming from on his concern for that. Sure, it may not be listed as negative, but the next police officer who finds your name in the database MIGHT take that as you being warned before for something. You just never know these days.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:17 AM   #64
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Chris, I can see where Michael is coming from on his concern for that. Sure, it may not be listed as negative, but the next police officer who finds your name in the database MIGHT take that as you being warned before for something. You just never know these days.
Name, badge number, phone call to supervisor. Apology accepted!

Seriously though, I guess I don't get riled up over this because my name is in so many federal databases, and I've had enough background checks to last a lifetime...or until I hit the expiration date and need another one...
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:25 AM   #65
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There's no need for o0ur names to be in any databases for LEOs if all we're doing is enjoying a perfectly legal hobby from public property. Having background checks run for jobs or credit is one thing and most of us expect and accept that. But my fear is that someone somewhere will not get the message when they run your name through a computer check for "suspicious photography" and find that another LEO in another state or town did the same thing a few months prior.

WHat do you think LEOs think when they see a suspect in a case was questioned but not covicted a few years ago? They naturally don't think he was innocent; they think he was guilty but there wasn't enough evidence. My hunch is that a similiar thing would happen here. It was raise a signal in his mind that something just ain't right about this fellow.


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Old 07-31-2007, 04:13 AM   #66
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Well, I was going to put this in a new thread, but this one seems to come close enough for our purposes. New York is considering requiring permits for certain types of public photography:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/ny...&ex=1340769600

Get ready to get your $1 million liability insurance policy.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:04 PM   #67
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Well, I was going to put this in a new thread, but this one seems to come close enough for our purposes. New York is considering requiring permits for certain types of public photography:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/ny...&ex=1340769600

Get ready to get your $1 million liability insurance policy.
Unbelievable. Those idiots.

This part in particular is going to cause some serious problems:

Quote:
Mr. Dunn suggested that the city deliberately kept the language vague, and that as a result police would have broad discretion in enforcing the rules.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:51 PM   #68
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Now this is assinide. I am all for using common sense in shooting at sensitive locations, whether "legal" or not, as stated in previous posts of this thread. But this is just someone trying to make a buck. It said in groups of 2 or more. Does that mean that ppl can shoot there as long as they take turns with their buddies or fly solo?
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:36 PM   #69
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It said in groups of 2 or more. Does that mean that ppl can shoot there as long as they take turns with their buddies or fly solo?

How does one define a "group?" What if said "group" stands 10 feet apart and, while taking pictures, act like they don't know each other?
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:33 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JimThias
How does one define a "group?" What if said "group" stands 10 feet apart and, while taking pictures, act like they don't know each other?
Jim;

The article states --

Quote:
The rules define a “single site” as any area within 100 feet of where filming begins. Under the rules, the two or more people would not actually have to be filming, but could simply be holding an ordinary camera and talking to each other.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:17 PM   #71
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This probably belongs in the trip reports, but I wanted to share a kinda similar experience on my most recent BT-3 chase.

I started the morning out watching the Bessemer (CN) Calvin Yard crew throw some cars around. Too far in the distance for any shots but it was action to watch until BT-3 time. I departed there and headed for the B&P's Butler Yard. I have yet to find a spot to see the yard very good from. I was sitting at the top of a business' driveway outta the way, not too far off of the road. I think it is a staple/fastener company, so no national security concern there. I was watching the BT-3 air up through the trees with my binos, and a pick up came up the drive. I was looking through the glasses at the time and did not see him until I heard him, and it kinda startled me and I pulled my glasses away just because he startled me (not trying to hide them.) He watched me as he drove by, and I gave him a nod and he left down the road. 5-10 minutes later, he came back and stopped and checked me out. He said that I looked suspicious with my binos (which I prob. did with the way I dropped them) and asked what I was doing, and I told him. He told me that I was on private property, and asked that I leave. I complied, since I was (barely) without argument, actually almost apologetically.

I went and got a bite to eat at a place called the Deli Crossing in E. Butler. Would recommend to any of you Western PA guys. By that time BT-3 was aired up, and on its way north. When it got to its chemical customers #1, there are no places to get good shots, and #2, I wouldn't shoot at these locations anyway for security reasons. Anyway, I was again sitting in a parking lot watch the guys toss cars around for about a 1/2 hour or so. Pretty soon one of the truck drivers for the facility was headed my direction through a man door in the perimeter fence. He said that the Security Guard in the shack in whcih I was in full view of the whole time wanted him to check me out since he was coming up into a safe zone anyway for a smoke. We started shooting the shit, and found out that we have some aquintances. Small world. I just found it funny that a staple company thought I was a threat, but an actual concern of Nat'l Security checked on me then started B.S.ing with me like we knew each other, not that...that was a prob.

I'm not denying that I wasn't "trespassing." I just didn't think a staple manufacturer was a problem. I'll prob. go back to the staple place again, but I'll check in first and explain my intentions since technicalities are technicalities.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:15 AM   #72
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I was watching the BT-3 air up through the trees with my binos, and a pick up came up the drive. I was looking through the glasses at the time and did not see him until I heard him, and it kinda startled me and I pulled my glasses away just because he startled me (not trying to hide them.)
I won't say that I've been around the block a zillion times or run into a zillion railfans out there, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a railfan with binoculars. It's the first time I have heard of binocs used for casual viewing of industrial property, in fact. Seems much, much more unusual than railfanning. Just a thought. Anyone have a different perception?
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:38 AM   #73
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I won't say that I've been around the block a zillion times or run into a zillion railfans out there, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a railfan with binoculars. It's the first time I have heard of binocs used for casual viewing of industrial property, in fact. Seems much, much more unusual than railfanning. Just a thought. Anyone have a different perception?
Like I said, I have yet to find a spot with a good view of this yard. If anyone has a good spot, plz share. It was just a pair of elcheapos that I carry in my glove box for deer spotting, etc. I was viewing through distant trees lining the yard. I was there for a chase, and was watching for both conductors/brakemen to jump back on board so I could get a jump to my 1st spot. Anyone familiar with the B&P Butler Yard can attest to not being able to view the actual yard. Viewing the shops is a different story. A highway bridge goes right over the shops, and there are a few shots from that bridge on RP, but no yard shots.
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:27 AM   #74
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I thought I would share something that happened to me this past week. I was called in at midnight to go shoot an industrial fire. I was led to believe that flames were shooting out of the building and that it was just a matter of time before things started blowing up. When I actually got there, the road was roped off by police and fire, but within an hour and a half, the fire department PIO (public iinformation officer) had come to brief the media and tell us that the dangerous situation was over. Soon, we would be able to get closer to get our shots. When I say we, there were two crews from our station and one each from the other three.

Fast forward about an hour. Now me and my reporter are the only ones there aside from random fire department folks and a few people from the warehouse where the fire happened. By now, we have pulled right up on the road in front of the building. I get my gear out of the truck and walk over to where I can get a closer spot. My camera doesn't have a great lens, plus I wanted to get around the police cars.

Well, by now, the owner or manager of the warehouse has spotted us. My reporter introduces himself, but the owner says, "I'm going to have to ask you not to take pictures. Respect us while we start the investigation." I set up my tripod while my reporter says, "We're just going to stand right here." The man says, "I can't l;et you do that."

I say, "Sir, we're on a public road. We can be here. We are here." We are literally in the road, but close enough to fire and police cars so that we're not in the way. My reporter, on the other hand, says, "We'll respect you and stand on the othr side of the road, but we're going to have to shoot the building." I start to protest, but my reporter says we should just do it and not get in a fuss in front of the officials. I don't appreciate being told what to do by a citizen who doesn't want me to shoot the warehouse that just caught on fire, but I really don't appreciate being told what to do by my reporter IN FRONT of this same person. So I stand my ground and remind my reporter we just need a few shots before we get back to the station. He walks away, I get my shot and that is that.

Here's the odd thing. One of those fire officials had taken video of the scene when they were still putting out hot spots. He got on the warehouse property with his camera. He then gave that video not only to my station, but the other three stations too. Not sure if the warehouse owner knew that at the time or not.


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Old 08-18-2007, 05:22 PM   #75
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Jim;

The article states --
Quote:
The rules define a “single site” as any area within 100 feet of where filming begins. Under the rules, the two or more people would not actually have to be filming, but could simply be holding an ordinary camera and talking to each other.
Ahh, ok, so as long as they aren't talking to each other or holding a camera, then they aren't officially considered a "group." Got it.

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I won't say that I've been around the block a zillion times or run into a zillion railfans out there, but this is the first time I have ever heard of a railfan with binoculars. Anyone have a different perception?
I've seen railfans with binoculars, and many times I've wished I had them with me, too. That's when the 400mm lens comes in handy. However, sometimes I still wish I could get a longer reach to see what that train is off in the distance, and whether it's worth waiting for or driving down to see what it is.

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