Old 08-24-2012, 03:09 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Ya think?
(5 images apart)

Image © Harry Gaydosz
PhotoID: 406842
Photograph © Harry Gaydosz


Image © BurghMan
PhotoID: 406867
Photograph © BurghMan


Course, it would be a pipe dream to say they are "exactly" the same.
And let's leave it at that.

Considering how many duplicates simply get posted down the line - recall even admin joining in on a thread about two images and still accepting the second (and I think each got a PC) - I wonder why have such a rule. At least in this instance, one was B&W while the other - not the same angle - was color.

I have no problem with duplicate images - there's always something for someone to learn in comparing.

/Mitch
Deja vu all over again.
Image © Steven Mckay
PhotoID: 407069
Photograph © Steven Mckay


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Old 08-26-2012, 02:21 AM   #27
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I have seen many worse pictures of the NKP unit on this website...
nice grammar.

Surprised Thias never picked up on this...

Wouldn't it be said as "I've seen many photos worse than that of the NKP unit on this website..." ?
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:56 AM   #28
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nice grammar.

Surprised Thias never picked up on this...

Wouldn't it be said as "I've seen many photos worse than that of the NKP unit on this website..." ?
You just changed the meaning of his original sentence.

His point was that he's seen many pictures of the NKP unit that were worse (quality) than his (in his opinion).

The way you've worded it, you make it sound like he meant to say that he's seen photos of any type that look worse than the photos of the NKP unit.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:31 PM   #29
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You just changed the meaning of his original sentence.

His point was that he's seen many pictures of the NKP unit that were worse (quality) than his (in his opinion).

The way you've worded it, you make it sound like he meant to say that he's seen photos of any type that look worse than the photos of the NKP unit.
Jim, you have missed your true calling, and Ian, there is still time for you.....

You both should be English teachers, Jim perhaps a professor.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:02 PM   #30
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Jim, you have missed your true calling, and Ian, there is still time for you.....

You both should be English teachers, Jim perhaps a professor.
If only I had the memory banks to accomplish such a feat.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:41 AM   #31
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If only I had the memory banks to accomplish such a feat.
You have what it takes, it just requires the will to do so.

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Old 08-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #32
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You have what it takes, it just requires the will to do so.
Nope. I suffer from CRS syndrome.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #33
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Curious; how so? That "rule" is in effect in a lot more places than just RP.....
It's just the difference between representationalism (documenting the train in pure terms, with little or no concern for creativite composition, lighting, etc.), and expressionism. Most railroad enthusiasts/photographers just want a "pretty picture" of the train--on the sunny side, please, usually three quarters, and with sun on the nose (no "high sun"). It's very formulaic. I should add, however, there are an infinite number degrees between those two extremes. I shoot (and am happy to do so) many shots that are pure plain-vanilla train photos. Those kinds of shots make up 90 to 95 percent of the images you'll see on RP.net. Nothing wrong with that at all...

As for me----I'm not a fan of "rules." Photography should be an art form, and not a disciplined process of conformity. At least, that's my little ol' opinion...

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Old 08-28-2012, 07:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
...Most railroad enthusiasts/photographers just want a "pretty picture" of the train--on the sunny side, please, usually three quarters, and with sun on the nose (no "high sun"). It's very formulaic. I should add, however, there are an infinite number degrees between those two extremes. I shoot (and am happy to do so) many shots that are pure plain-vanilla train photos. Those kinds of shots make up 90 to 95 percent of the images you'll see on RP.net. Nothing wrong with that at all...

As for me----I'm not a fan of "rules." Photography should be an art form, and not a disciplined process of conformity. At least, that's my little ol' opinion...
Ron (or, if you prefer; Mr. Flanary, which implies only my HIGHEST respect for your work),

My only issue with that description, which describes what a roster photographer is looking for, is that it seems to imply that those of us who seek out only the best lighting/background/foreground/subject conditions for roster photography, are just part of a big ole' group of fans who just point the camera in the direction of the engine and fire away with no advanced knowledge of what we're doing. (those are my words, I know you didn't say that). I mean, we ALL know, don't we, that anyone can take a roster shot. Right?

Some of us view locomotives as a man-made work of mechanical art. Just like that owner of the candy apple red '57 Chevy at the neighborhood car show in the parking lot of the Ace Hardware on Friday night, who obsesses over not being able to get that battery terminal to shine like he wants, so do some of us obsess over perfect lighting conditions and wait 4 hours for the sun to move to juuuuuuust the right spot to get rid of that pole shadow. We obsess over door latches being in the proper position. We obsess over the weed clump that is just barely too high and covers some of the rear wheel. We obsess over a hood door that is not quite shut. We obsess over the soda can in the ballast; remove it. We obsess over the front AND rear cab doors being shut. And this all presumes that the unit is not front-coupled, which, of course, is against the Geneva Convention.

And in our appreciation for said work of art, to see a well-planned/prepared image that puts that piece of art in the best conditions for us to enjoy the moment for years to come, is one of the ultimate forms of leisure-time enjoyment. Same kind of leisure-time enjoyment as that fly fisherman on the Gunnison (been there, done that), same as that 57 Chevy owner, who shows off his prize with smiles from ear to ear, some of us can sit and look at prime roster slides for HOURS and days on end. Like at WGRF conventions; we don't want the viewing and trading and pre-arranged photo shoots to end. And conformity? If at one of the WGRFs, or approval trading, you want to get the very best of master roster photographers like Claflin, Hunnell, Benson, Wilson, Hulsey, Lynn, Gilley, Chapman, et al, you had better have your stuff shined and polished as well. And all of what I have said doesn't even touch on the subject of what a "perfect" roster shot of say, a NP U25C or a UP U50 could bring on the market.

So yes, I myself get hung up on the rules and conformity if I am pursuing the object of my mechanical affection (hey; you're gonna choke if you laugh any louder). I enjoy it. I enjoy the chase, and I enjoy the capture. I don't feel the need, nor am I going to, apologize in embarassment for chopping that weed, or waiting out the cloud deck for a sucker-hole that may or may not come, or handing over a couple of Jacksons to a hostler to shut a cab door. There's nothing wrong with that at all, either. But likewise, please excuse my sarcastic look and reticence when someone trys to lump me in with a point-and-shooter (I'm talking about the "theres a train, there's a TRAAAAAIN!! type of photography, not the kind of camera). We ain't cut from the same cloth, and we're not related.

Now, have I taken shots in the different degrees of light, et al, that are on either side of prime? Of course I have! And do I enjoy seeing shots where the subject matter and mood, though not sunlit, are just so overwhelming that it stops you in your tracks (pun intended)? Absolutely!! Indeed, Mr. Flanary (respectfully spoken, not sarcastically), given 1 train shot to look at in a choice of 10, if I saw your credit I would choose it. I'll look at (indeed, I HAVE looked at) your photagraphy for hours just as I would well-lit rosters. Your images tell stories that few can. They speak for themselves. There is DEFINITELY nothing wrong with what you have done; the trails you have blazed in rail photagraphy are wide, well travelled, and have many vistas.

I just wanted to include that there are just as many vistas and stories to be told by roster-shooters. You might say that the only difference in the level of interest is that for us, the story is historical; for artsy and creative photography, the story has a plot.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:07 PM   #35
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Some of us view locomotives as a man-made work of mechanical art. Just like that owner of the candy apple red '57 Chevy at the neighborhood car show in the parking lot of the Ace Hardware on Friday night, who obsesses over not being able to get that battery terminal to shine like he wants, so do some of us obsess over perfect lighting conditions and wait 4 hours for the sun to move to juuuuuuust the right spot to get rid of that pole shadow. We obsess over door latches being in the proper position. We obsess over the weed clump that is just barely too high and covers some of the rear wheel. We obsess over a hood door that is not quite shut. We obsess over the soda can in the ballast; remove it. We obsess over the front AND rear cab doors being shut. And this all presumes that the unit is not front-coupled, which, of course, is against the Geneva Convention.
Excellent way to break it down. And see, to me, this has nothing to do with railroad photography and has everything to do with the personality of an individual. I'm highly OCD about a LOT of things in life, and it just happens to translate to railroad photography, so I can totally relate to everything you said above.

It's something I can't help, it's just the way I am...and I really don't mind it, to be honest.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:02 PM   #36
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Ron (or, if you prefer; Mr. Flanary, which implies only my HIGHEST respect for your work),

My only issue with that description, which describes what a roster photographer is looking for, is that it seems to imply that those of us who seek out only the best lighting/background/foreground/subject conditions for roster photography, are just part of a big ole' group of fans who just point the camera in the direction of the engine and fire away with no advanced knowledge of what we're doing. (those are my words, I know you didn't say that). I mean, we ALL know, don't we, that anyone can take a roster shot. Right?
"Ron" is fine. I always thought of "Mr. Flanary" as my late father.

Upon rereading my original post, I suppose I unintentionally came across as a little high brow in my description of the typical roster shot. That was unfortunate, because that wasn't my goal. There's certainly an important place for that type of photography. I've never been to a WGRF session, but I have several friends who are dedicated adherents to the craft of the perfect roster shot. In truth, to get all the conditions "just right" ain't always easy. It's just a different type of photographic goal than the ones I have.

I think we all struggle to explain why some shots that might be a little "out there" don't make the cut at RP.net. I have a rather big tent when it comes to acceptance, but I understand and respect the guidelines RP.net attempts to adhere to. Ultimately, it's still quite subjective, no matter how hard anyone tries.

Remember: this forum gets requests every day from contributors who are puzzled why a particular shot is rejected. Sometimes the reasons are obvious--but many more times, they're not. One size never fits all (except for Spandex, of course...).

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Old 08-28-2012, 09:37 PM   #37
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One size never fits all (except for Spandex, of course...).
As a part of the current Lance Armstrong brouhaha, some commentator said that the worst thing LA ever did was to make it acceptable for American men to wear spandex.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:14 AM   #38
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Nice post by Barry. Nothing wrong with well executed roster shots, especially IF the subject is interesting. I liken it to the difference between fashion photography and "street" photography. Both take different skills and cater to a different crowd. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the bias here is strongly toward following the "rules" of technical photography.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:56 AM   #39
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I hope you aren't thinking I lumped you in with a point and shooter with my sun-on-nose is a dumb rule comment, Barry Sr., because I wasn't. I don't think there are very many, if any point and shooters on railpictures.net. To me a point and shooter is someone who just sort of grabs a picture without any eye to composition and lets the camera do the technical stuff and hopes it comes out.

I agree with hatcheman though, at times the bias here is a toward the technical advertising photo rather than the other end of the spectrum.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:03 AM   #40
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Unfortunately, in my opinion, the bias here is strongly toward following the "rules" of technical photography.
You and Chris Cook stated this much better than I did. That's exactly what I was trying to convey.
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