Old 09-14-2008, 01:02 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by PLEzero
Detailed Photo Submission Guidelines

Manipulation:

The purpose of our website is to display genuine, authentic photographs of trains and railroad related scenes. Bearing this in mind, digital manipulation of photographs (beyond standard post-processing techniques such as levelling, sharpening, dust removal, etc.) is not permitted on photographs submitted to RailPictures.Net.


A pity. There are some who still take the view that only the techniques we had available in the 19th century are valid for RR photos. I honestly don't understand the thinking, but it's not my website. The problem is that time has not stood still. Neither has the trains we photo, the gear we use to photo them, or the imaging software. I will submit that the latter is now the single most mportant thing to modern photography. I myself am an outdoor guy, not a computer guy. I started taking choo-choo photos with a 4x5 large format field camera. Can't get much more "old school" than that. However, I have come to realize over the past three years that if I don't make the effort to learn how to effectively use state of art software, I will be swept aside by those who do. Or at least, I would be selling far fewer photos to my buyers if I didn't.

Forums such as this one could be doing the casual railfan a tremendous service by encouraging them to learn the latest techniques such as HDR. I do understand that this is a foamer site, not a photography site though. My fear is that the more advanced photographers will be repulsed and seek the more progressive sites to post, making this one the choice for "old farts".


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Old 09-14-2008, 01:15 AM   #52
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I've started and HDR group at Yahoo Groups. I've posted in many places and asked amny photographers to join it. I think this will a great spot, that doesn't already exixt, for HDR interested to get help or give advice.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HDR_Software/

HDR_Software@yahoogroups.com
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Noct Foamer
A pity. There are some who still take the view that only the techniques we had available in the 19th century are valid for RR photos. I honestly don't understand the thinking, but it's not my website.
I think there may be more latitude here than you may realize. There is no tolerance for color changes, or removal of objects/persons, or 30 degree rotations, and the like. But there is a lot of creativity here and some people do a lot of work on their shots in terms of selective sharpening and exposure changes and bringing out shadows and that sort of thing. And some really nice BW conversions.
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The problem is that time has not stood still. Neither has the trains we photo, the gear we use to photo them, or the imaging software. I will submit that the latter is now the single most mportant thing to modern photography.
...
Forums such as this one could be doing the casual railfan a tremendous service by encouraging them to learn the latest techniques such as HDR. I do understand that this is a foamer site, not a photography site though. My fear is that the more advanced photographers will be repulsed and seek the more progressive sites to post, making this one the choice for "old farts".
I would love to know where the more progressive sites are!!! So do tell, please. For some time I've been trying to find the beyond-RP website with the sort of content that RP does not accept, and I have a blog that I would love to fill with that work.

I think RP will always, or for the foreseeable future, be limited to natural light, natural color shots (at least daytime). But there is pretty wide latitude as to compositions and there is a lot of creativity here now. Hence recently accepted shots of "three dots" trains and the like. All sorts of compositions. So the "old farts" comment may be rhetorical but I think there will always be what I will call a "high end" of submissions.

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BTW, are you "duckgrabber" on ObsCar?
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:26 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by socalrailfan
I've started and HDR group at Yahoo Groups. I've posted in many places and asked amny photographers to join it. I think this will a great spot, that doesn't already exixt, for HDR interested to get help or give advice.
Is that a rail HDR group or a general photography HDR group?

There is a flick HDR group, as info.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/hdr/

Lots of other HDR resources on the web; I've not perused them but they are out there.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:43 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by JRMDC

1. I think there may be more latitude here than you may realize. There is no tolerance for color changes,....

2. I would love to know where the more progressive sites are!!! So do tell, please. For some time I've been trying to find the beyond-RP website with the sort of content that RP does not accept, and I have a blog that I would love to fill with that work.

3. I think RP will always, or for the foreseeable future, be limited to natural light, natural color shots (at least daytime).

4. BTW, are you "duckgrabber" on ObsCar?



1. Color changes are crucial. Almost all of my photos need some color correction/curve work. It's just part of shooting digital. How can one shoot NEF and not do some color work? Why handicap photographers by disallowing that? Very curious. Also curious that they allow use of ND grads but apparently not the grad tool in CS3? Not sure there's effectively any difference, other than CS3/gradient tool wasn't available in the 19th century.

2. These are fine art or nature sites. They are extremely welcoming of modern technology. My favorite is Strobist, part of Flickr. Another is www.naturescapes.net, or www.naturephotographers.net

3. A pity. Natural light? That cuts me out right there. For the past year most of my train shots have been lit by Paul Buff monolights or Nikon strobe lights. My Chicago subway shots are lit by whatever artificial lights they have down there in the tubes. Oh well. I rarely post photos on the internet anyway I suppose.

4. Indeed.


Kent in SD


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Old 09-14-2008, 01:51 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Noct Foamer




3. A pity. Natural light? That cuts me out right there. For the past year most of my train shots have been lit by Paul Buff monolights or Nikon strobe lights. My Chicago subway shots are lit by whatever artificial lights they have down there in the tubes. Oh well. I rarely post photos on the internet anyway I suppose.



Hmm these werent shot in natural light. I believe Janusz was referring to something else.

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Old 09-14-2008, 01:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Noct Foamer
3. A pity. Natural light? That cuts me out right there. For the past year most of my train shots have been lit by Paul Buff monolights or Nikon strobe lights. My Chicago subway shots are lit by whatever artificial lights they have down there in the tubes. Oh well. I rarely post photos on the internet anyway I suppose.

Kent in SD

That kind of 'light' is accepted on RP.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:55 AM   #58
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[color=Blue]

1. Color changes are crucial. Almost all of my photos need some color correction/curve work. It's just part of shooting digital. Why handicap photographers by disallowing that? Very curious. Also curious that they allow use of ND grads but apparently not the grad tool in CS3? Not sure there's effectively any difference, other than CS3/gradient tool wasn't available in the 19th century.
I am guilty, not for the first time, of being unclear. Color changes are allowed. They are allowed, however (and hey, I have no affiliation with the site! It is easy to phrase this way) toward the end of making a shot look more realistic and not as an artistic dimension (beyond the usual warming and so forth). No funky stuff that obviously wasn't what it actually looked like.

About ND gradient filters, don't know.

Quote:
2. These are fine art or nature sites. They are extremely welcoming of modern technology. My favorite is Strobist, part of Flickr. Another is www.naturescapes.net, or www.naturephotographers.net
Oh, bummer, I was hoping you meant rail-oriented sites. Sure, as photographers get more advanced, more serious, they may drift off to another realm. I hypothesize that, in many or most cases, their subject matter will also diversify beyond railroads. So of course they go to more general outlets.

Quote:
3. A pity. Natural light? That cuts me out right there. For the past year most of my train shots have been lit by Paul Buff monolights or Nikon strobe lights. My Chicago subway shots are lit by whatever artificial lights they have down there in the tubes. Oh well. I rarely post photos on the internet anyway I suppose.
See the first sentence of 1. above. There is illuminated night shooting here. Not just Gary Knapp, but he has 174 shots on RP. Certainly not objected to by RP.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:58 AM   #59
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Walt, is this one pseudo-HDR?
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Old 09-14-2008, 02:08 AM   #60
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Walt, is this one pseudo-HDR?
Actually that is straight out of the camera, I did try to fix the yellow sign some however.
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:41 PM   #61
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Janusz the HDR group is for HDR in general. HDRsoft has added it to their links section and a tech should be joining so we can get some real inside help at processing.

I got another shot accepted into the databse today that is HDR. The original would never have been accepted. This is a true three shots HDR and not over-processed.

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Old 10-11-2008, 06:10 PM   #62
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I saw that and then came here to post in this thread
It seems a little flat still, but it's well done.
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by socalrailfan
Janusz the HDR group is for HDR in general. HDRsoft has added it to their links section and a tech should be joining so we can get some real inside help at processing.

I got another shot accepted into the databse today that is HDR. The original would never have been accepted. This is a true three shots HDR and not over-processed.

Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 254674
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Thanks.

Congrats. I'm not a fan, for my tastes it is overdone and too bright, but those are my tastes, 'tis all.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:09 AM   #64
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Default HDR...acceptance now??

Wow...as we discussed last year on HDR I knew that the screenies would (or should) accept HDR/TM images. So is it official now? My last discussion on this I was told it was not based on the manipulation factor ...although I knew they already were already getting in regardless of the rules.
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:02 AM   #65
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If one had to answer your question, it would as long as you can get away with it. In other words, as long as it looks natural you're good. I have one HDR shot on so far, but I went through great lengths balancing it out. I was mixed with the results and thought somebody would call me out on it (its pretty obvious the train is in the shadows yet the picture has a brilliant blue sky and multiple reflections of the sun in a near by river), but nobody ever did.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:08 PM   #66
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If one had to answer your question, it would as long as you can get away with it. In other words, as long as it looks natural you're good. I have one HDR shot on so far, but I went through great lengths balancing it out. I was mixed with the results and thought somebody would call me out on it (its pretty obvious the train is in the shadows yet the picture has a brilliant blue sky and multiple reflections of the sun in a near by river), but nobody ever did.

I think this would also apply to all images that "as long as you can get away with it"... will be in??

To me though one of the issues with respect to HDR/TM images is that by their very nature they will and should look different from conventional low contrast single exposure cousins. I have heard and seen the comment many times that a good HDR is one that you cannot tell it is HDR...I beg to differ. First using the term "good" is relative, so we have no reference in that respect to what we each may think is "good".
I like your term "natural", since we all have a common reference for that just by going outside and seeing the world. The fact that some folks can spot HDR imagery demonstrates there is a difference and whether it from photographic experience knowing that camera's today cannot achieve the contrast range that are accomplished using multi-exposure techniques or from other keynotes of HDR. Btw I find natural multi-exposure HDR imagery of static high contrast scenes to be a much closer representation of our world than any of the current single exposures.

Until the rules allow for this type of imagery I will honor that... even from trying to "sneak" them in. Which is the reason for my original question...have the rules been amended or are the screenies seeing the benefits and overlooking the rules?
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