Old 04-23-2014, 12:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
I suggest you be more conscious of your use of the word "somewhat" as at times the standards here are muck pickier than that.

In general, my focus on subjectivity is perhaps less directly stated than it should be. So let me try again. Because photography is subjective, screeners shouldn't be so g*dd*mn certain that their requests result in an improved image. And if they don't result in an improved image, they should not be requested! My view is that, too often, they do not.

I wonder sometimes if, in RPs zeal to fix the bad stuff - a successful effort! - RP loses track that maybe the same screening "eye" is inappropriate for, in particular, the better than ok stuff.

How does one express that genuine interest? How does one communicate with admin, regarding that or any other issue? Heck, I have repeatedly seen people having no idea why they lost their upload count. Communication with admin is not always successful. We see complaints about that regularly.

For starters, how about a clear and stated policy about what it takes to loose uploads and what it takes to get them back. At times RP in that dimension in particular seems to be a black hole.
Hi J... I understand entirely what you're relaying to me. As photos in the queue accumulate and we screen several dozen images in a single setting, us screeners are exposed to a very diverse series of uploads. We see exceptionally artistic efforts, standard 3/4th angles, images that need only very small minor corrections (i.e. number boards are noticeably soft), and then images that need many adjustments that still cannot correct the technical flaws.

Being exposed to such a variety of images constantly keeps us refreshed on the material. We aren't concentrated exclusively on enforcing sharpness or a specific color tone or amount of contrast to comply with our 'technical' standards. We comply with screening standards that everyone is familiar with to maintain consistency while also taking subject material, artistic value, composition, lighting, etc. into consideration.

Artistic value introduces some form of subjectivity obviously, but in the grand scheme of things, we enjoy nice railroad photography at the end of the day. And with all of us sharing that same interest, I think it creates for a diverse photo collection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
You would think the site owners would be out in front of this, not Chase. I think that speaks volumes about the situation.

Maybe they tasked Chase to do this, since maybe they feel he is closer to "us" than they are. Or maybe he just cares more.
It's very much a group effort with administration, Troy. There's constantly work being performed to the site that is not always visible. Chris Kilroy and his colleagues recently upgraded our servers that have tremendously increased database speed.

I'm in regular contact with the rest of the Staff too and we all share the same interests for the growth of the website.

To the rest of our forum contributors who have continued sharing their thoughts, I've read them all and will welcome further commentary.

Chase
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:59 AM   #27
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For what it's worth, I feel that whenever a member gets their upload limit reduced, there should be an explanation from the admin - or at the very least, a response if the user submits a query. It hasn't happened to me (yet,) but to do something of the sort and then leave the user in the dark is completely unacceptable.

-Jacques
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:16 PM   #28
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I used to be a three times and it's out guy, now i don't get out that much myself [work] and have mellowed if you like, some shots I will resubmit a couple of times most get one shot only now.

Troy I will say this about Chase, when my emails were not coming through I contacted Chase re the problem, he did all he could to remedy the fault, and he is demonstrating that now by asking for input, give him his dues guys.

BTW the emails now arrive correctly.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:28 PM   #29
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For what it's worth, I feel that whenever a member gets their upload limit reduced, there should be an explanation from the admin - or at the very least, a response if the user submits a query. It hasn't happened to me (yet,) but to do something of the sort and then leave the user in the dark is completely unacceptable.

-Jacques
Thanks Jacques. I'm in agreement and feel that as contributors have their uploads reduced for excessive uploads or abuse of the system, it's only right to contact them through email with a brief acknowledgement and explanation. I'm sure this could be put into place.

Thanks,
Chase
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:59 PM   #30
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I got two rejections on the following shots this morning and was pleasantly surprised to see helpful screener comments.

This one got bad contrast and the comment said it needed more contrast.
Image © Michael Berry
PhotoID: 478971
Photograph © Michael Berry


This one got horizon unlevel and the comment said CCW rotation needed.
Image © Michael Berry
PhotoID: 478968
Photograph © Michael Berry


Both got in on the second try. This is definitely a step in the right direction.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:31 PM   #31
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Lightbulb My Thoughts.

Both of those responses (more/less contrast and CW/CCW rotation) are extremely helpful and would only involve a second button push if the screening dialog was set up to incorporate such things.

While on the front side it might seem more work for a screener to push another button, or look at the image a second time - it would actually save time by not having the person attempt to "fix" the image with the wrong rotation, or lightening the contrast.

It obviously takes time for a screener to look at the same image again and again reject it.

________________________

Further, something like leveling can be a very subjective issue in certain instances, especially when the screener has never been to a certain spot.

For instance, this image was dinged for "horizon unlevel."

Ferrum

Yes, the horizon is unlevel because the whole area for 20 miles to the left slopes into a salt sink on the right (Salton Sea).

If a screener thinks it ought to be rotated, it would be nice to know which way.

* * * * *

And while I have that image up, I'm tired of screeners trying to crop my landscapes into wedgies.

That image was rejected because of bad cropping and I know ya'all want something like this:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Crop.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	217.1 KB
ID:	8542


or this would be a better "fit" Click image for larger version

Name:	Crop 2.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	157.7 KB
ID:	8543

(Examples are blurry because I just cropped the original 1024 x 730 image for the sake of discussion.)


And if that was the shot "I" wanted, I would have hiked down the hill and got a whole lot closer to the tracks.

However, my point in taking the shot was to show the viewer what Ferrum looks like and the area around there - it was a landscape with a train in it.

If I had my way, I would have cropped it like this, but the Flickr shot was my attempt at second guessing the screener's criteria based on past experience.

Click image for larger version

Name:	7879.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	378.3 KB
ID:	8541

I dislike having to second guess the screeners.



BTW - Jim, come June that whole side of the train will be lit around that corner and I am seriously thinking about getting one.

Problem is the 115 degree temperature and the 1/2 mile hike up the hill.

1/2 mike in 100 or more temps is way worse than 7 miles at 70 degrees.

______________________________

Example 2.

RP took this:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 463822
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography



I wanted to show Amboy crater in the distance and talk about it in the caption (I even put that in the notes to screener).

Bolo Hill - [2013 Winter Solstice +1 Series]


It just seems the main emphasis on screening is toward the 3/4 wedgie format and anything out of that box seems to befuddle the group - I notice this because my images often get to #1 or #2 in the queue and languish there for hours.

That tells me that there is a certain look that is preferred, and one, or two people are probably making the decision on the nonconforming stuff.

I could post 1000's of photos like this and they would get accepted - no problem.

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 463760
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


But what is the point in that?

They are boring, just look at the view numbers.

Additionally, they provide very little pleasure for me as a photographer to take, since I could train a 12 year old to take sunny day 3/4 wedgies.

__________________________

And while I am on a rant, what is the deal with open door shots?

Why are they rejected as a matter of course?

Out for a Look

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:07 PM   #32
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As I have mentioned earlier also, in some other thread, I have always been learning many good things about railway photography through this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mberry View Post
I got two rejections on the following shots this morning and was pleasantly surprised to see helpful screener comments.

Both got in on the second try. This is definitely a step in the right direction.
Very nice to see that happening. Perhaps, they will automate the process by having sub-check boxes(or some other means) along with the acceptance/rejection check box. It will certainly ad up some time for screening each image initially but again, will be definitely saving the overall time of any good image getting in.
1)Horizon: CCW/CW/perspective ....although Jim may not be always in agreement
2)Blurry : in which area may be....ovrall/Upper left/right/half or Lower L/R/H
3)Color: More saturation or less... Again a matter of individual liking.
4)Contrast: More or Less
5)Cropping: I am not sure how to convey what exactly needed. But it will be nice to have words like "subject centered", "Too much on Left/Right/Top/Bottom"
6)Cloudy to be separate from common angle.
Am I expecting too much of spoon feeding?
Perhaps they need to add sub check boxes to few rejection reasons and it would be very helpful saving time and efforts for submitter.
Of course this may lead to more controversies about in-consistent screening, if they hit wrong buttons. But such cases will be very less.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
Thanks Jacques. I'm in agreement and feel that as contributors have their uploads reduced for excessive uploads or abuse of the system, it's only right to contact them through email with a brief acknowledgement and explanation. I'm sure this could be put into place.

Thanks,
Chase
We appreciate your taking the heat from us, Chase.

-Jacques
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mberry View Post
I got two rejections on the following shots this morning and was pleasantly surprised to see helpful screener comments.

This one got bad contrast and the comment said it needed more contrast.
Image © Michael Berry
PhotoID: 478971
Photograph © Michael Berry


This one got horizon unlevel and the comment said CCW rotation needed.
Image © Michael Berry
PhotoID: 478968
Photograph © Michael Berry


Both got in on the second try. This is definitely a step in the right direction.
I agree totally with this.
As someone who doesn't upload a lot I would like to see away for corrections to be made with out using your daily uploads.
Jason
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Further, something like leveling can be a very subjective issue in certain instances, especially when the screener has never been to a certain spot.

For instance, this image was dinged for "horizon unlevel."

Ferrum

Yes, the horizon is unlevel because the whole area for 20 miles to the left slopes into a salt sink on the right (Salton Sea).

If a screener thinks it ought to be rotated, it would be nice to know which way.

* * * * *

And while I have that image up, I'm tired of screeners trying to crop my landscapes into wedgies.

That image was rejected because of bad cropping and I know ya'all want something like this:

Attachment 8542 or this would be a better "fit" Attachment 8543

(Examples are blurry because I just cropped the original 1024 x 730 image for the sake of discussion.)


And if that was the shot "I" wanted, I would have hiked down the hill an got a whole lot closer to the tracks.

However, my point in taking the shot was to show the viewer what Ferrum looks like and the area around there - it was a landscape with a train in it.

If I had my way, I would have cropped it like this, but the Flickr shot was my attempt at second guessing the screener's criteria based on past experience.

Attachment 8541

I dislike having to second guess the screeners.

BTW - Jim, come June that whole side of the train will be lit around that corner and I am seriously thinking about getting one.

Problem is the 115 degree temperature and the 1/2 mile hike up the hill.

1/2 mike in 100 or more temps is way worse than 7 miles at 70 degrees.

______________________________

Example 2.

RP took this:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 463822
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography



I wanted to show Amboy crater in the distance and talk about it in the caption (I even put that in the notes to screener).

Bolo Hill - [2013 Winter Solstice +1 Series]


It just seems the main emphasis on screening is toward the 3/4 wedgie format and anything out of that box seems to befuddle the group - I notice this because my images often get to #1 or #2 in the queue and languish there for hours.

That tells me that there is a certain look that is preferred, and one, or two people are probably making the decision on the nonconforming stuff.

I could post 1000's of photos like this and they would get accepted - no problem.

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 463760
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


But what is the point in that - they are boring, just look at the view numbers.

Additionally, they provide very little pleasure for me as a photographer to take, since I could train a 12 year old to take sunny day 3/4 wedgies.
Horizon is sometimes difficult to determine at first glance, but an extensive review will almost always reveal some true vertical reference. We see a great deal of scenic vistas and scenes that do not always have true vertical or horizontal references. With that being said, these images require additional review to accurately judge. We realize hills and backgrounds are not level, but that does not interfere with the ability to screen them.

As for your mentioned bad cropping rejections, this is related to the composition/balance of the photo. Eliminating scenery in an effort to focus exclusively on the train is most definitely not our goal, but if it creates for a more balanced result, sometime it's the only option. Does that make sense?

Composition/balance is subjective to the photographer to some extent, but it's also easy to determine whether or not empty space in a scene enhances that photo or only takes away from its balance. That part, in my eyes, isn't entirely subjective, but just common photography practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalam View Post
As I have mentioned earlier also, in some other thread, I have always been learning many good things about railway photography through this site.

Very nice to see that happening. Perhaps, they will automate the process by having sub-check boxes(or some other means) along with the acceptance/rejection check box. It will certainly ad up some time for screening each image initially but again, will be definitely saving the overall time of any good image getting in.
1)Horizon: CCW/CW/perspective ....although Jim may not be always in agreement
2)Blurry : in which area may be....ovrall/Upper left/right/half or Lower L/R/H
3)Color: More saturation or less... Again a matter of individual liking.
4)Contrast: More or Less
5)Cropping: I am not sure how to convey what exactly needed. But it will be nice to have words like "subject centered", "Too much on Left/Right/Top/Bottom"
6)Cloudy to be separate from common angle.
Am I expecting too much of spoon feeding?
Perhaps they need to add sub check boxes to few rejection reasons and it would be very helpful saving time and efforts for submitter.
Of course this may lead to more controversies about in-consistent screening, if they hit wrong buttons. But such cases will be very less.
The expansion of preexisting rejection reasons has been discussed in the past. For images that are rejected for horizon, contrast, or color, I try to always specify the corrections that need made via the screener comments. This is an effort to reduce the amount of repeated uploads and to provide some helpful insight to contributors.

Thanks gentlemen! Keep them coming, please!

Chase
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mark woody View Post
Troy I will say this about Chase, when my emails were not coming through I contacted Chase re the problem, he did all he could to remedy the fault, and he is demonstrating that now by asking for input, give him his dues guys.
Chase has always been responsive. My comments about the admins were not aimed at him...
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:32 PM   #37
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Chase is now begging for a wave of emails from frustrated RPers ... And we want to figure out at what times of day you are screening so we can benefit from your supplemental comments, which no other screener provides.

Chase, I am not in a mood or have time to quote all the details, but I find that your responses to my second post and to Roco's most recent post are of the "we can handle this" type and that is showing less than full recognition of a larger point, one that RP is in fact not handling well in my view.

For example, you say
Quote:
Eliminating scenery in an effort to focus exclusively on the train is most definitely not our goal, but if it creates for a more balanced result, sometime it's the only option. Does that make sense?
this strongly implies there is one ("only") option. There isn't! There are multiple options, and that is my complaint. RP wants it a certain way, and I am arguing they should loosen up and stop being such arbiters of what is correct rail photography.

This is especially galling to photographers of a certain level of accomplishment (and, for the record, I am not talking about myself).

As a result of such uncalled for strictness in a subjective realm, a number of better photographers no longer feel like uploading here.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:51 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Chase is now begging for a wave of emails from frustrated RPers ... And we want to figure out at what times of day you are screening so we can benefit from your supplemental comments, which no other screener provides.

Chase, I am not in a mood or have time to quote all the details, but I find that your responses to my second post and to Roco's most recent post are of the "we can handle this" type and that is showing less than full recognition of a larger point, one that RP is in fact not handling well in my view.

For example, you say

this strongly implies there is one ("only") option. There isn't! There are multiple options, and that is my complaint. RP wants it a certain way, and I am arguing they should loosen up and stop being such arbiters of what is correct rail photography.

This is especially galling to photographers of a certain level of accomplishment (and, for the record, I am not talking about myself).

As a result of such uncalled for strictness in a subjective realm, a number of better photographers no longer feel like uploading here.
J,

I understand what you're trying to get across in your posts. I'm not saying that there is one solution or a single method of doing things. Look at the database and you'll see a variety of photos that conflict with the so called screening standards because of artistic appeal.

High quality railroad photography is encouraged and when a really nice railroad image is uploaded to the queue, it's artistic value and appeal outweigh any potential technical flaws (if they apply).. Sure, there's subjectivity in artist value, but I personally like to think that our staff has a good understanding of artistic appeal when screening a photo.

I don't want this debate to stray off topic, as I don't see it being 100% relevant to my original post. I understand your point and appreciate what you've introduced to the thread. I welcome further commentary!

Chase
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:54 PM   #39
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First of all, thank you for taking the time to field our questions and provide well thought out responses - I know it is not easy and since there is blood in the water at this point, I applaud your coming forward.

As someone who has been an active participant on this forum for a number of years, I miss your participation in the forum.

My responses are as follows"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
Horizon is sometimes difficult to determine at first glance, but an extensive review will almost always reveal some true vertical reference. We see a great deal of scenic vistas and scenes that do not always have true vertical or horizontal references. With that being said, these images require additional review to accurately judge. We realize hills and backgrounds are not level, but that does not interfere with the ability to screen them.
Yes, I agree and the issue does not seem to be very hard when the photo is in an urban setting where there are man made objects.

Rather, the run around the screening bush seems to raise it's ugly head in a rural setting like the example I posted.

If you notice, all the poles and antenna are plumb, but the horizon slopes and it seems the powers that be could just not get past that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
..... Eliminating scenery in an effort to focus exclusively on the train is most definitely not our goal,
While I realize that may be the intent of the Site, the result based on my submission of at his point, 100's of images, the stated goal is not reflected in the outcome.

Or as Ron would say, "the proof is not in the pudding."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
but if it creates for a more balanced result, sometime it's the only option. Does that make sense?
This is the "nut" of the problem.

Sure there are examples where it is obvious what the photog is trying to convey in the shot and the image just falls flat on it's face.

But there are plenty on instances (especially from me) that unless the screener actually takes the time to read the "notes to screener" or the caption, they will probably not get it from a thumbnail.

Example:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 447804
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
Composition/balance is subjective to the photographer to some extent, but it's also easy to determine whether or not empty space in a scene enhances that photo or only takes away from its balance.
Perhaps, but only if you and I see the photo the same way.

Sometimes the empty space is what makes the photo.

Examples:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 458640
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 430618
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


_____________________

And with this example, Ya'all wouldn't take it because it has too much space on the left for RP standards, and yet the purpose of the photo was to show how flat and empty the desert is right here.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
That part, in my eyes, isn't entirely subjective, but just common photography practice.
Rule of thirds, sunny day, no shadows on the sides, no open doors etc.

While I respect your opinion, that is the "box" I often speak of.

I would like to see the Site go outside the box, because I'm tired of being constrained by it.

Boxed photos are no fun for me and they are boring to look at - view numbers don't lie.


Another example:

I want this:

Martinez Meet View II


Ya'all let me post this:

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 461854
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography


What is wrong with contrasting the dark side of the boxes against the lighted side of the train coming toward you?

The RP version seeks to limit the amount of shadow.

Just like how this one is taboo because it is a dark side photo - and thanks to whomever accepted it.

Image © EL ROCO Photography
PhotoID: 475755
Photograph © EL ROCO Photography



And here is an out of the box photo that is RR related.

Death of a Hemingray 42

Why is stuff like this not going in?

There are other photos like it in the DB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
The expansion of preexisting rejection reasons has been discussed in the past. For images that are rejected for horizon, contrast, or color, I try to always specify the corrections that need made via the screener comments. This is an effort to reduce the amount of repeated uploads and to provide some helpful insight to contributors.
Less work for you, because we don't play run around the bush with the screener and I admit, the more times something gets rejected I will keep at it because it becomes a game at that point.

I have images we have gone back and forth on 8 or 9 times before they were finally accepted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
Thanks gentlemen! Keep them coming, please!

Chase
Thank you Sir!

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Old 04-24-2014, 02:58 AM   #40
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Two quick points (good thread, by the way!):

I DID once suggest (to RP.net management) that "senior" photographers, who, by their body of work over time, had clearly established themselves as being accomplished practitioners of this craft, be given some type of "pass" to avoid the heartburn of a rejection. It was just an idea, and I didn't have any specific criteria for establishing such a group. The answer was a diplomatic "no": one size would continue to fit all, be it a newbie with a cheap point and shoot, or someone who had been doing great photography for 60 years.

Also---I don't really care for the map stuff. I tried to use it for a time, but it was just too much trouble. Also, if the shot was ultimately rejected, it was just more wasted time and effort to plot where the shot was taken---so I don't fool with it now.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:03 AM   #41
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Also---I don't really care for the map stuff. I tried to use it for a time, but it was just too much trouble. Also, if the shot was ultimately rejected, it was just more wasted time and effort to plot where the shot was taken---so I don't fool with it now.
Sir
The map location can also be added after the photo gets accepted. I think it as a nice feature to let others know about what potential the location has for future shots.

Last edited by lalam; 04-24-2014 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:18 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
Also---I don't really care for the map stuff. I tried to use it for a time, but it was just too much trouble. Also, if the shot was ultimately rejected, it was just more wasted time and effort to plot where the shot was taken---so I don't fool with it now.
I don't bother with the maps until after the shot is accepted, but I have tried to map each and every one of my shots that were submitted since the feature became available. I also go back every now and then to "fill in" the info for shots taken before that date. I guess I still have some tendencies at times (focus on "at times") to throwback to the age of courtesy, and I feel that including map and EXIF info is just basic common courtesy. For me it harkens back to the '60s era when I would attend monthly narrated shows, called travelogues by the club that sponsored them. Typically they featured slides from faraway places, but occasionally there was some amateur cinematography too. The best part of it all for me was the information shared by the presenters, and not only in the narration. After the show there was time to socialize and the presenters were always more than willing to answer any questions. Most of mine were related to the technical aspects of the shots as well as the location, if I still had questions in that regard. I like to think of including this info as a modern-day version of that after-show socialization. Also, it's kind of nifty to show up at one of my favorite haunts and find someone there who wanted to check it out based on seeing one or more of my shots from there, especially if that someone hailed from far away, like the other side of the country or even the Atlantic!
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:52 AM   #43
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Sir
The map location can also be added after the photo gets accepted. I think it as a nice feature to let others know about what potential the location has for future shots.
True...but very often I have no idea where I am. In fact, that's kind of the story of my life.

I realize the map location can be added later...but it just isn't a priority for me as a photographer.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:21 PM   #44
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I think the largest thing RP is guilty of, and maybe the crux of the issue is that they don't realize it, is that they are projecting their own personal likes and dislikes in the screening process. With Roco's shots, does Screener like wide open shots? Not really, it would look cleaner being cropped down more. OK that's fair. BUT does it being wide open make it a less "best of the net" or a quality shot? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Some examples of cropping are black and white yes I will agree. I hate bad shots just as much as anyone on here, but shots like Roco are not bad shots, they are simply ones in which some people will like for the open space (me) and some will not. Screeners have to realize that most of the traffic through here is not hoity toity photographer types. Take Roco's crater shot. 99% of people couldn't care less that there is a little more space at the bottom and on the sides. I guarantee that! Its not even being outside the box, its simply a matter of preference. Something like bad color, oversharpened, etc is easy. Really black and white. I think that when it comes to things like cropping, composition, etc on some images the screeners really need to think hard about the best interest of the site, and not their own personal preferences.
Also for god sake nothing gets my blood boiling (figuratively obviously im not a psycho) than an open door rejection. Trains run with open doors all the time, its part of railroading so just come to terms with the fact that its going to happen.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by coborn35 View Post
I think the largest thing RP is guilty of, and maybe the crux of the issue is that they don't realize it, is that they are projecting their own personal likes and dislikes in the screening process. With Roco's shots, does Screener like wide open shots? Not really, it would look cleaner being cropped down more. OK that's fair. BUT does it being wide open make it a less "best of the net" or a quality shot? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Some examples of cropping are black and white yes I will agree. I hate bad shots just as much as anyone on here, but shots like Roco are not bad shots, they are simply ones in which some people will like for the open space (me) and some will not. Screeners have to realize that most of the traffic through here is not hoity toity photographer types. Take Roco's crater shot. 99% of people couldn't care less that there is a little more space at the bottom and on the sides. I guarantee that! Its not even being outside the box, its simply a matter of preference. Something like bad color, oversharpened, etc is easy. Really black and white. I think that when it comes to things like cropping, composition, etc on some images the screeners really need to think hard about the best interest of the site, and not their own personal preferences.
Also for god sake nothing gets my blood boiling (figuratively obviously im not a psycho) than an open door rejection. Trains run with open doors all the time, its part of railroading so just come to terms with the fact that its going to happen.
Hear! Hear!
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #46
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So...this all begs the question: If Chase and all his screener colleagues suddenly quit, dropped dead or defected to Russia, and they were replaced by five or six other guys...would RP.net be any better, or maybe just a little different?

I applaud Chase for reaching out, listening and responding. But, reading all the posts is like watching an oriental cluster orgy. It seems folks are just preoccupied with their own rejections rather than a broader discussion. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's how it sounds to me.

Frankly, I don't think there's a solution that will make everyone happy. If I could think of one, I would have already suggested it. Oh...wait...I have made some suggestions over the years, but very few of my ideas have been considered or implemented.

Never mind... I'll get back to planning the shots I want to put on my Flickr account.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by coborn35 View Post
I think the largest thing RP is guilty of, and maybe the crux of the issue is that they don't realize it, is that they are projecting their own personal likes and dislikes in the screening process. With Roco's shots, does Screener like wide open shots? Not really, it would look cleaner being cropped down more. OK that's fair. BUT does it being wide open make it a less "best of the net" or a quality shot? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Some examples of cropping are black and white yes I will agree. I hate bad shots just as much as anyone on here, but shots like Roco are not bad shots, they are simply ones in which some people will like for the open space (me) and some will not. Screeners have to realize that most of the traffic through here is not hoity toity photographer types. Take Roco's crater shot. 99% of people couldn't care less that there is a little more space at the bottom and on the sides. I guarantee that! Its not even being outside the box, its simply a matter of preference. Something like bad color, oversharpened, etc is easy. Really black and white. I think that when it comes to things like cropping, composition, etc on some images the screeners really need to think hard about the best interest of the site, and not their own personal preferences.
Also for god sake nothing gets my blood boiling (figuratively obviously im not a psycho) than an open door rejection. Trains run with open doors all the time, its part of railroading so just come to terms with the fact that its going to happen.
I'll add a Hear! Hear!

I prefer not to cut catenary poles off my Northeast Corridor shots -
RP's answer was "not our style", but we see your point - "you can
put a couple on here and there". So now you have inconsistency
and a preferential bias on otherwise well composed, well liked images.

Ron - RE: You don't like the map feature... Wasn't the thread "what do you want?" vrs "what don't you like?" The map feature will likely be automatic for most as GPS catches on. Regardless - as one who promotes RP as the
best railfan database on the 'Net - I'm all for it. It helps photographers (when a poster is willing to share) and helps preservationist documenting events and equipment.

RE: "Favoritism" - it was a taboo thought, but if it does not exclude, what difference does it make? Unlike railfan magazines, there's plenty of room for everyone - even if no one knows you and you took the shot with your cell phone. As long as you have a good shot (and, y'know, uploaded on the right day), your image gets "published" on RP. Does it matter if all of Ron's shots get on so long as your chances are not diminished? My only issue with "favortisim" is self-favoritism by way on linking which is applauded by admin as a way to increase ad revenue. That diminishes chances of views as you are now "competing" for a chance at the front page which like a railfan magazine - has limited slots.

The benefit, as Ron and others have stated, including myself, is that RP becomes a place for finding not only your favorite photographs, but your favorite photographers. Obviously, some standard or formula would need to be devised to gain admittance.

/Mitch
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
So...this all begs the question: If Chase and all his screener colleagues suddenly quit, dropped dead or defected to Russia, and they were replaced by five or six other guys...would RP.net be any better, or maybe just a little different?
Give me the same screeners with the attitude and enthusiasm they had 5 years ago and it would be a better place.

All new screeners - depends who. I'd NEVER want Jim Thias to screen my shots for level, lol. Ron, however, if you were to tell me what hours you screened, those would be the hours I upload. It would make for an interesting pole to see who thinks who is rejecting the majority of their images (and why).

/Mitch
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:06 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
. But, reading all the posts is like watching an oriental cluster orgy. It seems folks are just preoccupied with their own rejections rather than a broader discussion. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's how it sounds to me.
Since I have written a fair amount in this thread, I'll say here that I was not thinking of my own rejections at all, rather my perception of the site overall. My rejects are generally for mundane reasons.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:20 AM   #50
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Since I have written a fair amount in this thread, I'll say here that I was not thinking of my own rejections at all, rather my perception of the site overall. My rejects are generally for mundane reasons.
....that wasn't true of everyone. Actually, many terrific points were made...and it was fairly cordial, as Forum exchanges go.
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