Old 12-27-2008, 04:14 AM   #1
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Default Anyone use WhiBal?

Anyone have any experience using this thing:
http://www.rawworkflow.com/whibal/
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:07 AM   #2
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Several arguments have been caused over gray cards. Some believe that meters try to make the "exposure" 18% gray tonal value, others however, think it is more upwards of 21%. In practice, I shoot RAW (NEF in Nikon parlance) Auto W.B. and I adjust in P.P.

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Old 12-27-2008, 05:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
In practice, I shoot RAW (NEF in Nikon parlance) Auto W.B. and I adjust in P.P.
I do the same thing, but I'm always just eyeballing the white balance in post. I'm not looking to use the WhiBal as an exposure tool, I'm looking at getting the correct White Balance (get the name: Whi(te)Bal(ance)?).

Here's a video showing how I'm looking to use this thing for:
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/02/index.html
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:56 AM   #4
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Wow. $19 for a little piece of plastic with a hole in it.
I am definitely in the wrong business.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:46 PM   #5
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Actually Ween, those two CAN work hand in hand! A wrong exposure can give wrong temperature. That gadget is just a gray card Ween.....

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Old 12-27-2008, 01:50 PM   #6
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The hard thing to do is eyeball the W.B. on the cameras LCD. You may get a W.B. reading with a tool like this, get home and want to adjust it again. I personally would not use a product like this, you however, may benefit from it.

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Old 12-27-2008, 03:34 PM   #7
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I think it would be kind of hard to get a passing train to hold that up for you, no?
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:41 PM   #8
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A gray card is used to set white balance and with curves in post processing. Many portrait photographers also use color cards to get all the colors right. My camera's white balance stays on sunny.
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:24 PM   #9
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Travis,
This is very true! My point for Ween is that using the back of the camera LCD, is not calibrated to check accurate W.B. AND exposure. You could set W.B. via this product or a gray card and still wanna tweak it in P.P.. The warmth/coolness of an image is at the sole discression of the photographer. Contrast and saturation needs also to be factored into this decision, also, and it depends how the camera is set up for the shoot, ie., I keep all levels at zero(sharpening, conrast, saturation) I also shoot in AdobeRGB color, this gives alot of flexibility in P.P. All of this needs to be considered with exposure AND W.B. readings.

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Old 12-27-2008, 07:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Save The Wave
Wow. $19 for a little piece of plastic with a hole in it.
Soooo...you never bought a CD? I mean, it's just a piece of plastic with a hole in it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by khalucha
I think it would be kind of hard to get a passing train to hold that up for you, no?
If you got mad skillz like me, anything's possible! They're very accomodating up here...not sure about Colorado though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman
My point for Ween is that using the back of the camera LCD, is not calibrated to check accurate W.B. AND exposure.
Your point's not being made bacause I could care less about getting the correct WB in the field with my camera; I never said or implied that's what I was looking to do with this thing. Like Travis was getting at, this thing would be used in post-processing when I'm tweaking white balance in Adobe Camera RAW. If the camera's Auto WB setting when I took the shot is off, I'd be looking to use the WhiBal to help me get it correct.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman
Travis,
This is very true! My point for Ween is that using the back of the camera LCD, is not calibrated to check accurate W.B. AND exposure. You could set W.B. via this product or a gray card and still wanna tweak it in P.P.. The warmth/coolness of an image is at the sole discression of the photographer. Contrast and saturation needs also to be factored into this decision, also, and it depends how the camera is set up for the shoot, ie., I keep all levels at zero(sharpening, conrast, saturation) I also shoot in AdobeRGB color, this gives alot of flexibility in P.P. All of this needs to be considered with exposure AND W.B. readings.

-- Kevin
Setting the white balance in the camera is pointless. My XTi gives me like 5 choices while photoshop gives me all the control in the world to adjust white balance.

The other side of the story would be the gray card isn't going to work the greatest unless the light is equal in the whole scene otherwise you will need to shoot it where the train will be and then go back to where you are going to shoot.
I would just use a paint ball gun and shoot the train with gray paintballs as it goes by and then hurry up and photograph it.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:01 PM   #12
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I'm sorry if I got off topic and went too far with this. Travis, your XTI may give you only about 5 in-camera choices, while my Nikon's give me tons more in-camera choices for WB. I ASSUMED that all cameras were that way with much more control. But still, with a calibrated MAC or PC monitor I feel it would be easier to eyeball the W.B. during post and adjust it to your liking, not necessarily to what the card says is correct.

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Old 12-27-2008, 11:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman
I'm sorry if I got off topic and went too far with this. Travis, your XTI may give you only about 5 in-camera choices, while my Nikon's give me tons more in-camera choices for WB. I ASSUMED that all cameras were that way with much more control. But still, with a calibrated MAC or PC monitor I feel it would be easier to eyeball the W.B. during post and adjust it to your liking, not necessarily to what the card says is correct.

-- Kevin
I completely agree with that. Gray cards are nice to help out in tough color situations, but I have never used one myself. I have always wanted to try it. Also, Nikon sucks.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:11 PM   #14
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LOL!

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Old 12-27-2008, 11:15 PM   #15
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Travis, you can get 8x10 gray cards thru Kodak that will fill the frame of your camera lens. Try it with afew landscape shots to test it out.

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Old 12-27-2008, 11:32 PM   #16
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Doesn't use of a gray card for landscape require that the light falling on the card, which presumably is somewhere near the photographer, is the same as the light falling back in the scene, which is presumably somewhere far away from the photographer?

I've never understood the use of a gray card outside a studio.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
I feel it would be easier to eyeball the W.B. during post and adjust it to your liking
I don't trust my eyes:
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/08/index.html

I realize he's trying to sell a product, but if you've ever been to an exhibit of optical illusions, your eyes can play tricks. So can beer goggles.

Anyway, has anyone used a WhiBal?
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:28 AM   #18
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I set my 40D WB at auto. Its so easy to adjust in PP I find it not worth the effort since my FANTASTIC CANON gets it real close. I have shot day & nite, sun & clouds and have had to make very few adjustments in PP. Whats a Nikon?
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Doesn't use of a gray card for landscape require that the light falling on the card, which presumably is somewhere near the photographer, is the same as the light falling back in the scene, which is presumably somewhere far away from the photographer?

I've never understood the use of a gray card outside a studio.

It will never be perfect! That is why I am suggesting to give it a try and adjust later to YOUR liking.

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Old 12-28-2008, 12:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman
It will never be perfect! That is why I am suggesting to give it a try and adjust later to YOUR liking.

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I understand not perfect, I don't understand usefulness. I guess that what happens is that in most cases the ambient light near the camera is similar to that near the subject.

What I would use something like this for is a permanent record of the actual WB at the time of a shot. I often work a photo months later and am conscious of the fact that my memory of the light is poor and I end up with a criterion of "looks good" rather than "represents conditions."
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I don't trust my eyes:
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/08/index.html

I realize he's trying to sell a product, but if you've ever been to an exhibit of optical illusions, your eyes can play tricks. So can beer goggles.

Anyway, has anyone used a WhiBal?
After watching some of the videos I think I am going to have to try a gray sometime when it will work. I am still waiting for them to produce whiballs so you can paintball your subject if it is at a distance in different light.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
I don't trust my eyes:
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/08/index.html

Anyway, has anyone used a WhiBal?
Yes. I've had one for several years. They work quite well if the light falling on the WhiBal matches your composition. In my experience with photographing trains, that is usually the case.

In addition to setting the white balance with the gray card, they also offer a black card and a white card to use for setting the black point (shadows) and white point (highlights) which offers the same color correction that we both do with Curves in PS.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirailfan
Yes. I've had one for several years. They work quite well if the light falling on the WhiBal matches your composition. In my experience with photographing trains, that is usually the case.

In addition to setting the white balance with the gray card, they also offer a black card and a white card to use for setting the black point (shadows) and white point (highlights) which offers the same color correction that we both do with Curves in PS.
Thanks, Thomas.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
Anyone have any experience using this thing:
http://www.rawworkflow.com/whibal/

-Yes I use it a lot, for a few years. It is especially handy for working in night shots with artificial light sources (sodium/mercury vapor). It is a great tool when trying to calculate color temperature. Others mentioned a "grey card" , this is not really a grey card for calculating exposure, as this can be done more effectively anyway with a histogram. Not to mention it is perfect for getting correct levels and curves, white and dark points.

Last edited by Cinderpath; 12-29-2008 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Doesn't use of a gray card for landscape require that the light falling on the card, which presumably is somewhere near the photographer, is the same as the light falling back in the scene, which is presumably somewhere far away from the photographer?

I've never understood the use of a gray card outside a studio.
In Ye Olden Days of Filme, metering off of an 18% Gray Card was supposed to render a properly-exposed sunlit scene (whether sunny or cloudy).

As for light that is "presumably somewhere far away from the photographer", while it's technically true that light diminishes as the square of the distance, the light source for a landscape (the sun) is 93 million miles away. A few feet either way aren't noticeable.
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