Old 10-21-2015, 01:18 AM   #1
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Question Too much noise/grain

I am not seeing the noise on my screen. I do see a lot of heat distortion.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...14&key=8274292

Are you seeing noise/grain? Should I run the noise reduction on the image?
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:13 AM   #2
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The entire sky is coarse, even w/o magnification. Large spot above the signal at right.
Train looks fine IMO.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:30 AM   #3
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Yes, they sky looks a bit 'off' to me, perhaps overpixelated.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:00 AM   #4
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pixellated sky and oversharpened - and those are probably related.

a) sharpen less
b) I often select all but sky before I sharpen - sharpening sky is asking for trouble.

I'm actually surprised you can't see the issue, Carl.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:45 AM   #5
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In the OP I thought the exif I see, not something that might be usual??, going to ISO 800 to shoot at F16?
Not sure what you gain in DOF and doesn't that bring out the sensor dirt?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I had this too one much noise


http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...88&key=3913555

not really complaining but thought there might be a little latitude because it was nearly dark. Probably has other issues and whatever I do will lead to another problem????

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Old 10-21-2015, 03:17 PM   #6
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Noise is most visible in a uniform patch of color - specifically, the sky.

In each example, you may get good enough results by simply blurring the sky selectively.

Photoshop has an awesome feature called "select: color range" which in each case would be the color of the sky. Or, you could use the magic wand tool, or trace the outline of the sky and fade the edges. Then simply add the right amount of noise reduction (or blur) to that selection.

Y'know... or buy an even better camera!

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Old 10-21-2015, 05:00 PM   #7
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Y'know... or buy an even better camera!

/Mitch
Thanks for the Photoshop tip. Stuff like that makes posting my rejected images worthwhile.

That was taken six years ago when I had a 6.1MP K100D. I did use the noise filter on the sky. But apparently that was not enough. I think heat distortion from the engines is the culprit. Somehow reducing the noise made the image unlevel, so I think I will wait another 6 yrs. before trying again. After all the older the image, the more leeway you get.....eh??

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...55&key=1136962
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Old 10-22-2015, 12:07 AM   #8
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Put a grid on and look at the top of the bridge.
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Old 10-22-2015, 12:40 AM   #9
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Checked several references in the photo with a grid on. The bottom horizontal girder is level as is the vertical. The signal posts are level also. The heat distortion is the cause IMO.

I think a different set of eyes screened the resubmitted photo. Again another reason why I think that the screener who rejects an image should be the same screener who reviews the resubmitted one.
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Old 10-22-2015, 11:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJor View Post
In the OP I thought the exif I see, not something that might be usual??, going to ISO 800 to shoot at F16?
Not sure what you gain in DOF and doesn't that bring out the sensor dirt?
I thought the settings were odd as well. Why ISO 800? Seems you had some sufficient sunlight to go with f8 and ISO 200. Also, CLEAN YOUR SENSOR, Carl!

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Checked several references in the photo with a grid on. The bottom horizontal girder is level as is the vertical. The signal posts are level also. The heat distortion is the cause IMO.
The bottom horizontal is definitely not level. It's leaning in the same direction as the top horizontal.
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Old 10-22-2015, 11:52 AM   #11
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I thought the settings were odd as well. Why ISO 800? Seems you had some sufficient sunlight to go with f8 and ISO 200. Also, CLEAN YOUR SENSOR, Carl!

Generally, when I see really odd camera settings in the EXIF, it tells me that the shooter was using one of the camera's automatic modes. Letting your camera make too many decisions for you will not serve you well in the long run. Unless you are shooting a recent model camera, giving the camera free rein on the ISO is probably not a great idea. And, as another contributor noted f/16 is an e-ticket to showing your sensor crud to the world. Periodically, it is a good idea to take a shot of a clear sky at f/16 and examine that photo in detail. If you see any crud, you can try to blow it off with an air blower, but that is not usually completely successful. Learning to wet-clean the camera sensor is something that every serious photographer needs to do. If you change lenses frequently outdoors, it's an absolute must, because you will get sensor crud.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:05 PM   #12
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I honestly think the photo should be one for your own archives.

The bridge is very distracting with it appearing muddy (grainy and out of focus.) The shot was taken in the middle of November, and in all likelihood it was cool outside. I can understand a low aperture would exaggerate the heat dissipating on the roof of the engine, but the bridge and the muddy sky is a bit too much.

On a better day with improved camera settings I'm sure you can pull off a great shot at that location.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:26 AM   #13
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Generally, when I see really odd camera settings in the EXIF, it tells me that the shooter was using one of the camera's automatic modes. Letting your camera make too many decisions for you will not serve you well in the long run. Unless you are shooting a recent model camera, giving the camera free rein on the ISO is probably not a great idea. And, as another contributor noted f/16 is an e-ticket to showing your sensor crud to the world. Periodically, it is a good idea to take a shot of a clear sky at f/16 and examine that photo in detail. If you see any crud, you can try to blow it off with an air blower, but that is not usually completely successful. Learning to wet-clean the camera sensor is something that every serious photographer needs to do. If you change lenses frequently outdoors, it's an absolute must, because you will get sensor crud.
I have to say, the sensor cleaning feature on my two 60Ds has been absolutely amazing. I've owned both for 4+ years now and I have never cleaned the sensors manually. Every time I change a lens, I run the sensor cleaner. And of course, every time you turn it off, it does a brief sensor clean. I rarely, if ever, have any dust spot issues.

My 5D (mk1), which is nothing more than a paper weight right now, had a lot of issues with sensor dust. I used to be able to clean it in the field flawlessly, but after about the 100th time, it started to collect cleaner residue. Someday I may send it in to have the sensor replaced, but for now, it's a useless full frame DSLR due to the smears all over the sensor. No amount of cleaning with a swab will get rid of them either.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:23 PM   #14
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Why not run this through neat image? Perfect candidate for it, see below...
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:43 PM   #15
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Why not run this through neat image? Perfect candidate for it, see below...
The sky is radically better. I ought to give this a try!
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Old 10-24-2015, 03:07 PM   #16
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Why not run this through neat image? Perfect candidate for it, see below...
Waaaaay oversharpened, otherwise nice.
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:00 PM   #17
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Waaaaay oversharpened, otherwise nice.
Actually didn't sharpen it at all, just removed the noise. Some of the noise may have been a result from sharpening in the first place.
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:55 AM   #18
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it was overly sharp before

in general, noise reduce, then sharpen - well, I'm no expert but the other way around works poorly for me, I used to do it both ways at random until noticing the pattern. Put it this way, I want the sharpening to be done right ,not to be done on pixels that aren't going to change. I always sharpen as the very last step (well, I also sharpen some when doing the raw file at the very beginning).
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Old 10-25-2015, 04:42 AM   #19
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.... If you change lenses frequently outdoors, it's an absolute must, because you will get sensor crud.
I had a 20D and man, what a pain to keep clean since it was not self cleaning.

On the two 40D's and one 6D I have, they are self cleaning. As long as I turn on/off during the day, I never have sensor dust issues. If I do not turn on/off during the day, with my frequent lens changes, I do get sensor dust issues.

I have never cleaned the 40D or 6D. Liberating.
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:51 AM   #20
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I have never cleaned the 40D or 6D. Liberating.
Almost as liberating as nude sunbathing!
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:45 AM   #21
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Almost as liberating as nude sunbathing!
If I ever see you nude sunbathing Jim, I would regard that as TERRIFYING!!
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:03 PM   #22
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I have to say, the sensor cleaning feature on my two 60Ds has been absolutely amazing. I've owned both for 4+ years now and I have never cleaned the sensors manually. Every time I change a lens, I run the sensor cleaner. And of course, every time you turn it off, it does a brief sensor clean. I rarely, if ever, have any dust spot issues.

My 5D (mk1), which is nothing more than a paper weight right now, had a lot of issues with sensor dust. I used to be able to clean it in the field flawlessly, but after about the 100th time, it started to collect cleaner residue. Someday I may send it in to have the sensor replaced, but for now, it's a useless full frame DSLR due to the smears all over the sensor. No amount of cleaning with a swab will get rid of them either.
What sensor cleaner did you use?
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:20 AM   #23
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If I ever see you nude sunbathing Jim, I would regard that as TERRIFYING!!


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What sensor cleaner did you use?
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:47 AM   #24
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Yes, I used to use this product as well.

Here are all such products at B&H. I think the spinning brush is a good idea.

http://goo.gl/QV7SjM
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:57 PM   #25
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That's what I've always used as well. Good to know it can have some bad long term consequences. I did have to clean my 60D twice in the 3.5 years I had it, which isn't too bad. I've had to do the Fuji once so far... thanks Jim.
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