Old 12-21-2009, 06:06 AM   #1
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Default Rejected for bad cropping - what do you say?

There's a whole story regarding a recent rash of "bad crop" rejections but I'll skip it and simply ask if this specific image is a technically flawed image or if it is instead another matter. Unlike several accepted appeals you've been enjoying, I am not overly attached to this one but still curious to hear some constructive debate.

A zoom pan at 1/13th - seemingly sharp and difficult to reproduce effectively. Most pans by their nature include only the engine or an engine and the first car as this one does. I included detail ahead to illustrate the effect of speed and to give the engine "room to go". I am already aware it was not sunny. Bare with my sarcasm, it's in my nature though I am genuinely open to constructive criticism.

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Old 12-21-2009, 06:31 AM   #2
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Wow. I like it as is. But they may think it is too tight top and bottom (mostly top) and possibly on the left side of the frame. The train isn't centered exactly, but somehow it's not uncentered if that makes sense.

You could always appeal and state your case.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
There's a whole story regarding a recent rash of "bad crop" rejections but I'll skip it and simply ask if this specific image is a technically flawed image or if it is instead another matter.
I think I've missed this story. Can you elaborate?
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:49 PM   #4
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I would give a little more room on the bottom, BTW what's the deal on the number board? (left one)

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Old 12-21-2009, 12:51 PM   #5
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I would give a little more room on the bottom, BTW what's the deal on the number board? (left one)

Bill
Looks like it's broken and overlapping a little, making the first 7 look a little odd.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:57 PM   #6
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But they may think it is too tight top and bottom (mostly top)
Honestly, my first impression was that it was too tight on the bottom. It also appears unbalanced horizontally; while the engine is perfectly centered, the large bright space on the right overwhelms the corresponding area to the left of the engine that's much darker because of the car.

Mitch, I think the screeners are also grumpy that you cropped out the dog which was poking its head out of the second car's rear vestibule.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:25 PM   #7
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Mitch,
I think it's another of you well executed zoom-pan shot (gotta try that one day myself...). However, this one is lacking anything around the train that gives the viewer a frame of reference---blurred trees for example. To the uninformed, it might just appear to be a badly done wedgie (although I realize the skill and luck it took to get the shot...).

I realize you have to deal with the environment the way it is-----so if there's nothing but snow and air around the train, that leaves nothing to give you that impression of speed.

I like it though....
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:44 PM   #8
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While I enjoy a good broadside pan, I'm less of a fan of the zoom pan. While technically more difficult (I'm certainly envious of Mitch's ability to pull this off), the larger and more complex blur zone of a typical ZP just isn't something my eyes find pleasing....but that's me.

That said, my first reaction to this one was similar to everyone else's....too tight all around...especially too tight on the bottom. This one doesn't have enough blur zone to jump out and tell you it's a ZP. I think a little more breathing space (scenery) on all sides might also alleviate some of the unbalanced feel that David alludes to.

BTW, is this a going away shot? I'm thinking this is the tail end of a southbound steam trip?
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:00 PM   #9
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I find myself wishing their was more train behind it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:07 PM   #10
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I say more a poor angle rejection. From that angle combined with the rear of the train cut off makes the shot feel off. Love the zoom panning aspect.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:39 PM   #11
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Sorry, Mitch, you cut the train off. That's a no-no for you.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:11 PM   #12
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Lots to like but no banana. I can't really add anything to the above suggestions, but I can understand your frustration....it's SO close to being really good. The unit is incredibly sharp for a zoom pan, and the lighting is nice. Presumably the original does not give you room to adjust the crop. This will learn ya not to cut off the end off the train and/or crop so tightly in the camera! At least it's close to home and you can go freeze you duff off and try again.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:54 PM   #13
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This image is sort of like a fantastic catch done behind the back and inches off the ground... we think you did it, but we're not completely sure... and there lies the problem. It's a gorgeous zoom pan, but because it is so tight, we are not able to experience the beauty of what you have done. We are not seeing the blurred world around it.

To jump wildly to another analogy, it's sort of reminds me when people show me pictures of them in Paris or Hawaii, but the shots of them are of just them with so little around them that the image might as well be in New Jersey.

Show us the blurr... show us what you did.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:39 AM   #14
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I think it's rather unique. Try and find another panned zoom roster shot in the data base.

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Old 12-22-2009, 12:45 AM   #15
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More room on the bottom, and even then it's not a terribly interesting composition. It's certainly interesting from a technical standpoint though.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:23 AM   #16
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Well, thank you all, very much. Asking advice on an open forum can open a pandora's box. This was a secondary opportunity and I took it with the limits the location provided. That said, I think the success on the technique and sharpness carries it's weight. I've done some zooms before but to get the entire train vrs just the nose without blur is rather difficult. The tightness I think increases the excitement of the photo and there is a building within the crop which makes it obvious it's not a simple roster shot.

HOWEVER - I concur that the image may be a bit tight on the bottom as was noted by several of you. Live and learn. Thank you very much!

/Mitch
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:32 AM   #17
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Just keep working on it Mitch, I think you will get the Pan and Zoom pan down soon
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:56 AM   #18
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I want to point out that while I had a strong opinion on this, it was sort of like telling David Wright what was wrong with his swing. I might see something wrong and have a good thought on it, but it's still me... Schlubo, telling David Wright how to swing.
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:04 AM   #19
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Walt, I think I have it down - I just seem to be compositionally challenged (suddenly).

Charles - No worries, that's how I like it, honest, subjective and to the point. I see the blurred house but who am I to say others did not find it as prominent as I did.

Thanks!

/Mitch
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Looks like it's broken and overlapping a little, making the first 7 look a little odd.
I think the 7 is an upside down 2??

/Mitch
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:49 AM   #21
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Love the shot, Mitch! Perhaps a wee bit tight, but overall, a cool shot!

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Old 12-22-2009, 10:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
I want to point out that while I had a strong opinion on this, it was sort of like telling David Wright what was wrong with his swing. I might see something wrong and have a good thought on it, but it's still me... Schlubo, telling David Wright how to swing.
Mitch posts a reject, he's pretty much an expert at what he does, and how do you tell him he's better than that?

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Old 12-22-2009, 11:46 AM   #23
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Cropping is border line and can be taken ether way. I do think its to tight all the way around but if the lighting was better it may have gotten in Mitch.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
I want to point out that while I had a strong opinion on this, it was sort of like telling David Wright what was wrong with his swing. I might see something wrong and have a good thought on it, but it's still me... Schlubo, telling David Wright how to swing.
Quote:
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Mitch posts a reject, he's pretty much an expert at what he does, and how do you tell him he's better than that?
So, by this logic, if you were screeners and Mitch added a shot, you would accept them no matter what, even if you see problems with it, because of the name attached. We wonder why people outside this website are critical that some photographers can get any photo accepted, no matter how poor it is.

- Chris
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
So, by this logic, if you were screeners and Mitch added a shot, you would accept them no matter what, even if you see problems with it, because of the name attached. We wonder why people outside this website are critical that some photographers can get any photo accepted, no matter how poor it is.

- Chris
I agree with this 100%.
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