Old 12-24-2008, 05:14 PM   #1
Greg Rourke
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I see captions on trains being tied down. What does that mean? is it something beyond just being parked? Also, when the crew runs out of hours, is there any fudge factor allowed? Like they are 15 minutes from they yard? And I'm assuming the railroads want the hours enforced, not just the crew, is that correct? As a trucker, I sometimes run beyond my hours, when I'm stuck in traffic and an hour from home.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:21 PM   #2
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I'm not totally sure about the rules, i'm not that big into operations, but I can tell you that tying down a train means parking and setting the handbrake (and probably setting the reverser in neutral)
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Rourke
I see captions on trains being tied down. What does that mean? is it something beyond just being parked? Also, when the crew runs out of hours, is there any fudge factor allowed? Like they are 15 minutes from they yard? And I'm assuming the railroads want the hours enforced, not just the crew, is that correct? As a trucker, I sometimes run beyond my hours, when I'm stuck in traffic and an hour from home.
Nope, doesn't matter how close they are. I've seen road trains stop a mile short of their destination yard because they were out of hours. Many times a yard crew will be driven to the train to bring it the rest of the way. Sounds silly and would appear to defy logic, but it's just an example of rules and regulations run amok, IMO. In fact, just the other night, an Amtrak train here in Michigan left the depot and drove a 1/2 mile into the yard and then the crew was dead on hours...and the people on the train were forced to sit there for a few hours until a new crew was found. Unreal.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:36 PM   #4
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There are very few instances that a train crew can exceed the hours of service, if this happens, the carrier is required to send an explanation in writing to the FRA srating the reasons. A crew can be on duty more than 12 hours without violating this rule as long as the train is not moving. However, time in the jitney usually counts toward hours of service, unless the crew is already out of time.

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Old 12-25-2008, 12:44 AM   #5
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There are very few instances that a train crew can exceed the hours of service, if this happens, the carrier is required to send an explanation in writing to the FRA srating the reasons. A crew can be on duty more than 12 hours without violating this rule as long as the train is not moving. However, time in the jitney usually counts toward hours of service, unless the crew is already out of time.
There's only been one instance I've ever heard crews working past their hours of service, a few years back when there was a nasty ice storm in Buffalo and the jitneys literally couldn't get out of Buffalo. The dispatcher gave them verbal permission to work past their hours of service, in most cases cutting away from their trains and running light into Buffalo. The crews weren't happy about it, but unless they wanted to camp out in the cab for days on end, there was no other way they were getting off their trains.

Worthy of noting, even after their hours of service are up and they're riding back to whatever terminal in the jitney (crew van), they still get paid for this time. Hence, even if they outlaw after 12 hours, they sometimes won't get back home until after being on duty for 20 hours (I've been told that even 24 hours isn't all that uncommon on a class one). All of you who desire to work for the railroad, consider this a warning - if you have trouble handling an 8 hour day at your job now, and can't function on a few hours of sleep, the railroad probably isn't for you...it's like a life-long marathon.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:40 AM   #6
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Back east (and thirty years ago) I remember we'd always say a train "outlawed." Now on the westcoast and present day it's always "died on the law" or "died on hours."

Question - is this an eastcoast versus westcoast difference or a 1970s versus 2000s difference?
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:58 AM   #7
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No; outlawed, blown up, dead, died on the train, etc..... all mean the same thing. Just different lingo is all. This could turn into a lenghthy thread!! Allow me to get my copy of the CFR handy, LOL!

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Old 12-25-2008, 04:10 AM   #8
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In the flying world, when we run out of duty day, we have to put the plane on autopilot for the remainder of the flight and let the computer land it, hope there's another pilot onboard to take the controls, or bail out. Have fun traveling this Holiday Season!





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Old 12-25-2008, 07:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
Back east (and thirty years ago) I remember we'd always say a train "outlawed." Now on the westcoast and present day it's always "died on the law" or "died on hours."

Question - is this an eastcoast versus westcoast difference or a 1970s versus 2000s difference?
You confusing a dead crew with a tied down train. Both are different things, but a dead crew is often the cause of tied down train. A tied down train is simply a crewless train that has all the needed brakes applied (air set, handbrakes on engines, reverser removed, handbrakes applied on required amount of cars (usually 10%+1) and all needed paperwork on board).

Around these hear parts a crew past 12 hours is just called a 'dead' crew. Once past 12 hours the crew is not required to actually do anything other than go home. They don't even have to tie up in the computer but most do to keep everyone happy.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
You confusing a dead crew with a tied down train. Both are different things, but a dead crew is often the cause of tied down train. A tied down train is simply a crewless train that has all the needed brakes applied (air set, handbrakes on engines, reverser removed, handbrakes applied on required amount of cars (usually 10%+1) and all needed paperwork on board).

Around these hear parts a crew past 12 hours is just called a 'dead' crew. Once past 12 hours the crew is not required to actually do anything other than go home. They don't even have to tie up in the computer but most do to keep everyone happy.
Well, no not really... I was actually hijacking a thread about tying down to ask a question on a tangential topic that was mentioned.

But thanks for the info.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:46 AM   #11
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Sorry Charles. I assumed you were answering the OPs question, but I guess not.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Sorry Charles. I assumed you were answering the OPs question, but I guess not.
No problem - easy assumption to make... and I am becoming the king of taking these things in different directions.
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