Old 01-06-2013, 10:56 PM   #1
Dennis A. Livesey
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Default Crappy Cam and Flash

On another thread, mention was made about shooting with crappy cameras. Just how important to the value of an image is that?

Here is a pro challenged to make something out of a toy camera. He holds up the statement that it is not the camera, it is the photographer.

However, I would have been dying shooting such cool stuff, half a world away without my gear at least!

http://goo.gl/iK2AD
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:44 PM   #2
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Except that as one of the commenters points out, it's not "just the photographer." It's the photographer with a crappy camera, three flash units that aren't designed to be used with the camera (which isn't designed for a flash at all - I know because my kid has one), a couple hours of making things work together, and a number of failed shots. There's a reason serious photographers, and most not-so-serious photographers, prefer to shoot with at least halfway decent equipment.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:04 AM   #3
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Except that as one of the commenters points out, it's not "just the photographer." It's the photographer with a crappy camera, three flash units that aren't designed to be used with the camera (which isn't designed for a flash at all - I know because my kid has one), a couple hours of making things work together, and a number of failed shots. There's a reason serious photographers, and most not-so-serious photographers, prefer to shoot with at least halfway decent equipment.

Jon
Well, of course.

If I was doing the snake guy, halfway around the world from my home, I darn sure would rather have real gear myself.

The video is also an instruction in that one of the main qualifications of a talented (re: employable) person is that they can solve problems.

However, the real point that I was saying is that in the end a good photographer can create good stuff with a crappy camera. And that it because is the photographer that is the most important part of a photograph.

The irony is that we talk more about the camera, the least important part of the photograph, rather than what is going through our minds instead. The second most important part of a photograph, lighting, also is rarely really discussed.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:37 AM   #4
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Digital Rev is awesome I love there videos. For the topic at hand I do believe I have put too much emphasis on gear in the past. I don't consider myself an expert, or even a good photographer; I just wanted to invest in a good body and a set of lenses.

One thing that has always bugged me, is when someone sees a photo I take then says ''That's a great shot, you must have a really nice camera.'' It's like telling Neil Peart from Rush that he has a really nice set of drums..

Having a good camera helps, like in the video with the strobes not syncing up with the toy camera, and it would be pretty hard for instance, to pull off a time lapse with a Buzz Lightyear camera..
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
On another thread, mention was made about shooting with crappy cameras. Just how important to the value of an image is that?
Quote:
However, the real point that I was saying is that in the end a good photographer can create good stuff with a crappy camera. And that it because is the photographer that is the most important part of a photograph.
Sure, but it's quite likely that crappy camera is going to produce a photo with crappy image quality, and that is one thing that is held to high regard on RP. That was the point of my comments in the other thread.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:51 AM   #6
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One thing that has always bugged me, is when someone sees a photo I take then says ''That's a great shot, you must have a really nice camera.'' It's like telling Neil Peart from Rush that he has a really nice set of drums..
I would not like to hear Neil Peart on a crappy drumset. The man deserves the best!
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:01 AM   #7
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I would not like to hear Neil Peart on a crappy drumset. The man deserves the best!
I agree.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:30 AM   #8
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Sure, but it's quite likely that crappy camera is going to produce a photo with crappy image quality, and that is one thing that is held to high regard on RP. That was the point of my comments in the other thread.
And as usual your are quite correct Jim.

I keep going back to photography in a general sense. I do so even though this site has it's own aesthetic and that requires a medium to upper level price point camera. I feel we sometimes have to look beyond the boundaries of our little world from time to time. To keep us properly grounded as it were.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:11 AM   #9
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Getting an exceptional image is not the reason to go with pro gear - getting a SPECIFIC image is.

Have a go at these with your Buzz Lightyear camera:

Image © Pete Lerro - www.Lerroproductions.com
PhotoID: 326691
Photograph © Pete Lerro - www.Lerroproductions.com


Image © Dennis A. Livesey
PhotoID: 419485
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey


Image © Mike Danneman
PhotoID: 412670
Photograph © Mike Danneman


Now, if you are willing to go another direction - "challenging" the limitations AND OPPORTUNITIES of your gear, that's another story.

I didn't see the link to the video, only the images and to be honest, I was not too impressed and a bit surprised that the challenge included the use of not one but 3 supplemental flashes. Now I wonder if Photoshop was part of the equation...

/Mitch
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:24 AM   #10
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You select the right tool for the job. As always.

The point being however, is a good photographer making a good image with a crap camera. The fun is seeing what they come up with.

It would not be fun to see what a bad photographer can do with a good camera.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
You select the right tool for the job. As always.

The point being however, is a good photographer making a good image with a crap camera. The fun is seeing what they come up with.

It would not be fun to see what a bad photographer can do with a good camera.
Well now, I wouldn't say that, assuming you have an infinite amount of time:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem



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Old 01-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #12
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I keep going back to photography in a general sense. I do so even though this site has its own aesthetic and that requires a medium to upper level price point camera.
Or an iPhone.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:56 PM   #13
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I was amazed and pleasantly suprised to see mention of Neil Peart on a railfan photography site... My 2 favorite things...
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #14
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Not a Rush fan, but I did truly enjoy Neil's book "Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road." Very good read, especially if you also happen to love riding motorcycles.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Watain View Post
One thing that has always bugged me, is when someone sees a photo I take then says ''That's a great shot, you must have a really nice camera.'' It's like telling Neil Peart from Rush that he has a really nice set of drums..
There was a similiar thing going around on Facebook a year or more ago. It was a quote by someone mentioning that if you go to someone's house for dinner and it's really good, you would never say, "That was a great meal. You must have a really good oven." But people do that all the time with camera gear and never realize it's actually a put down of the photographer.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #16
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I have been accused of having expensive high quality equipment before. It's kinda funny when they find out daddy used a cheap rebel.

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Old 01-07-2013, 06:30 PM   #17
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There was a similiar thing going around on Facebook a year or more ago. It was a quote by someone mentioning that if you go to someone's house for dinner and it's really good, you would never say, "That was a great meal. You must have a really good oven." But people do that all the time with camera gear and never realize it's actually a put down of the photographer.
But when they do that to a photographer, are they talking just about the composition, lighting and subject matter, or does exceptional image quality fall into that praise as well?
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:38 AM   #18
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Or an iPhone. ]
Ya know Jim, I am starting to realize, after all these years, that you are just as rebarbative as that other famous J.

And why is it I am strangely attracted to you both...

hehehehehehe
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Getting an exceptional image is not the reason to go with pro gear - getting a SPECIFIC image is.

Have a go at these with your Buzz Lightyear camera:

Image © Pete Lerro - www.Lerroproductions.com
PhotoID: 326691
Photograph © Pete Lerro - www.Lerroproductions.com


Image © Dennis A. Livesey
PhotoID: 419485
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey


Image © Mike Danneman
PhotoID: 412670
Photograph © Mike Danneman


/Mitch
My ego thanks you so much for elevating me (if for just a moment) to the height of these kings of the rail photo avocation.
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"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

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Old 01-08-2013, 02:42 AM   #20
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.......It would not be fun to see what a bad photographer can do with a good camera.
I was looking at a wedding / engagement photographer's web site that takes pictures of people at the Fullerton train station.

He seems to have a 1D and some neat strobe gear and most of his pictures seem to be over exposed, blown out and lacking of any contrast or color.

I am not sure why they are like that - perhaps that is the look people want nowadays and I am just old, but the examples look amateurish at best.

I don't think there is any shortage of people with good gear taking bad photos.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:23 AM   #21
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Ya know Jim, I am starting to realize, after all these years, that you are just as rebarbative as that other famous J.

And why is it I am strangely attracted to you both...

hehehehehehe
hehehehehehehe!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
There was a similiar thing going around on Facebook a year or more ago. It was a quote by someone mentioning that if you go to someone's house for dinner and it's really good, you would never say, "That was a great meal. You must have a really good oven."
Hahahahahaha - that's hilarious! And everything is spelled right and equally spaced - you must have a great computer /keyboard combination.

/Mitch
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:34 AM   #22
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...................Hahahahahaha - that's hilarious! And everything is spelled right and equally spaced - you must have a great computer /keyboard combination.
Your child is really beautiful, you and that other person must really be good at.............

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Old 01-08-2013, 12:03 PM   #23
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Ya know Jim, I am starting to realize, after all these years, that you are just as rebarbative as that other famous J.

And why is it I am strangely attracted to you both...

hehehehehehe


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