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-   -   new policy? (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13861)

oltmannd 04-28-2011 04:17 PM

new policy?
 
Your current 24 hour upload limit is 2.

What happened to 10?

crazytiger 04-28-2011 05:06 PM

This is one of the most oft-discussed topics here. Basically, pre-2004(ish) there were no upload limits. Then in early 2009, new members started at 2, others being grandfathered in. On a case-by-case basis, the Admins will lower the uploads if they don't like something you are doing, just generally, uploading a bunch of crap, or violating rules or something. Now, as it appears you were in the grandfathered group, you have to figure out why you got relegated to 2. I don't know, maybe they made all non-elite members have 2 uploads?

jnohallman 04-28-2011 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 136210)
I don't know, maybe they made all non-elite members have 2 uploads?

Nope.

Jon

oltmannd 04-28-2011 05:28 PM

I've had an half dozen or so "Top in past 24 hrs" shots in the past month or so, so I don't think it's quality of the uploads so much.

What typically happens is I'll upload 10, get 1 or 2 accepted (never the ones I would have predicted!), appeal 4 or 5, get one or two of those in. Then, I'll tweak the ones I really like according to the reject reason and try them again the next day.

I was 2 for 2 today when the hammer came down.

Just wish they'd have let me know....

coborn35 04-28-2011 05:30 PM

1 or 2 of 10 is not a good percentage. Even in baseball your on the bench for batting .150

oltmannd 04-28-2011 05:58 PM

What's kind of interesting is that nearly all of my recent "top 24 hr" shots were minor tweaks of rejections or appeals.

In the web biz, views = $$ so, I thought have some top shots would improve the owners bottom line...

(didn't know this was baseball...but my overall average is closer to .400. Batting average is hits per at bat, not hits per swing)

The problem with the two per day limit is I'm a lousy mind reader. I've had "lead pipe cinches" fail, but less stuff fly right through. So, I make my best guesses and let them sort it out. My skill at "picking the winners" among the 10 is really pretty lousy.

For example, this one, which I really like, took four tries with very, very minor tweaks.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361683

but this one, which isn't nearly as good a shot technically or aesthetically got in on first try.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361680

It's their site, they can do what they want with it. I just thought I'd get the courtesy of an explanation since I've been around since the early days (2003).

JRMDC 04-28-2011 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136215)
What typically happens is I'll upload 10, get 1 or 2 accepted (never the ones I would have predicted!), appeal 4 or 5, get one or two of those in. Then, I'll tweak the ones I really like according to the reject reason and try them again the next day.

You are appealing 4-5 out of 8-9 rejections? You appeal half your rejections? Wow!

Stop appealing so often, figure out what RP does not like about those shots and fix them. Appeals should be a limited part of your toolkit, almost never is it a good first response, not if tweaking is possible.

Freericks 04-28-2011 06:16 PM

I'm sure you were hit for appealing 50% of rejections.

Regarding your shots -- you and I must have crossed paths out there at some point in time. Man, we were mining the same territory in the late 70s.

Regarding the 1988 shot of the Cosmopolitans, versus the 1979 shot of the FA Power Pack -- the MUs are something that can be shot today, and to be frank, they are MUs, while the Power Pack is long gone and it's an Alco.

Beyond that, while 1988 is historic, 1979 includes that magic seven that elevates it. I've had shots from the 1980s dinged for things that my 1970s shots were never bothered by.

All of which is a long way of saying, an over thirty-year-old image of a no longer existing Alco is going to have less hoops to jump through than a twenty-year-old image of MUs that still run today.

coborn35 04-28-2011 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136217)
What's kind of interesting is that nearly all of my recent "top 24 hr" shots were minor tweaks of rejections or appeals.

In the web biz, views = $$ so, I thought have some top shots would improve the owners bottom line...

(didn't know this was baseball...but my overall average is closer to .400. Batting average is hits per at bat, not hits per swing)

The problem with the two per day limit is I'm a lousy mind reader. I've had "lead pipe cinches" fail, but less stuff fly right through. So, I make my best guesses and let them sort it out. My skill at "picking the winners" among the 10 is really pretty lousy.

For example, this one, which I really like, took four tries with very, very minor tweaks.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361683

but this one, which isn't nearly as good a shot technically or aesthetically got in on first try.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361680

It's their site, they can do what they want with it. I just thought I'd get the courtesy of an explanation since I've been around since the early days (2003).

Each submission is an at bat.

Joe the Photog 04-28-2011 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136215)
I've had an half dozen or so "Top in past 24 hrs" shots in the past month or so, so I don't think it's quality of the uploads so much.

To keep with the baseball analogy, you're a homerun hitter. We see your stuff on the front page and it's great, but the two strike outs a game is what we don't see.
Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136215)
What typically happens is I'll upload 10, get 1 or 2 accepted (never the ones I would have predicted!), appeal 4 or 5, get one or two of those in. Then, I'll tweak the ones I really like according to the reject reason and try them again the next day.

This is why your daily uploads went down. Let's look at it this way. Let's say you submit ten shots one day. Two get on and eight are rejected. You're 2 for 10, not great numbers, but sometimes there is a fine line between a rejection and a Top of 24.

Now out of those eight rejections, you appeal four of them. Out of the fouy you appealed, one gets on. So now your success rate is actually 3 for 18. And then I suppose it's likely you adjust the other seven shots as well and resublitt thosed, of which the numbers keep rising.

I would like to see less of an either/or. The number seems to be 10 uploads a day allowed or two. Maybe some people would do better with five, maybe not. It's not my site. I would just say look closer at your uploads, appeal rejections less often and if you have any questions, ask for help here.

As you did on the cropping issue. My hunch was that you thout the reject was better than the accepted version, with which I did not agree.

Joe the Photog 04-28-2011 07:01 PM

Pfft. My bad, make that 3 out of 14.

oltmannd 04-28-2011 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 136224)
To keep with the baseball analogy, you're a homerun hitter. We see your stuff on the front page and it's great, but the two strike outs a game is what we don't see.

This is why your daily uploads went down. Let's look at it this way. Let's say you submit ten shots one day. Two get on and eight are rejected. You're 2 for 10, not great numbers, but sometimes there is a fine line between a rejection and a Top of 24.

Now out of those eight rejections, you appeal four of them. Out of the fouy you appealed, one gets on. So now your success rate is actually 3 for 18. And then I suppose it's likely you adjust the other seven shots as well and resublitt thosed, of which the numbers keep rising.

I would like to see less of an either/or. The number seems to be 10 uploads a day allowed or two. Maybe some people would do better with five, maybe not. It's not my site. I would just say look closer at your uploads, appeal rejections less often and if you have any questions, ask for help here.

As you did on the cropping issue. My hunch was that you thout the reject was better than the accepted version, with which I did not agree.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. At two uploads a day, they're all going to get appealed - what's to lose?

I do like the reject better than the accepted one because it's better balanced geometrically to my eye. Most people disagree. It's not a right or wrong thing.... C'est la vie!

Freericks 04-28-2011 09:41 PM

No matter how cool your shots are, I would guess that if you appeal every rejection, even at a two upload a day limit, you'd get yourself banned pretty quickly.

trainboysd40 04-28-2011 11:15 PM

I appeal most of my rejections...which adds up to 1-3 appeals every two months.

coborn35 04-29-2011 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136235)
Thanks for taking the time to explain. At two uploads a day, they're all going to get appealed - what's to lose?

I do like the reject better than the accepted one because it's better balanced geometrically to my eye. Most people disagree. It's not a right or wrong thing.... C'est la vie!

You will lose your ability to appeal. i haven't been able to appeal since February 2009.

milwman 04-29-2011 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 136210)
I don't know, maybe they made all non-elite members have 2 uploads?

Yep thats how I see it.

crazytiger 04-29-2011 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136215)
...appeal 4 or 5...

Don, meet your problem.

Freericks 04-29-2011 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainboysd40 (Post 136240)
I appeal most of my rejections...which adds up to 1-3 appeals every two months.

Sounds like someone has given up on taking risks!

oltmannd 04-29-2011 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 136254)
Don, meet your problem.

Who knew? No, comment or note or email, just BAM! ..new limit.

oltmannd 04-29-2011 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136219)
I'm sure you were hit for appealing 50% of rejections.

Regarding your shots -- you and I must have crossed paths out there at some point in time. Man, we were mining the same territory in the late 70s.

Regarding the 1988 shot of the Cosmopolitans, versus the 1979 shot of the FA Power Pack -- the MUs are something that can be shot today, and to be frank, they are MUs, while the Power Pack is long gone and it's an Alco.

Beyond that, while 1988 is historic, 1979 includes that magic seven that elevates it. I've had shots from the 1980s dinged for things that my 1970s shots were never bothered by.

All of which is a long way of saying, an over thirty-year-old image of a no longer existing Alco is going to have less hoops to jump through than a twenty-year-old image of MUs that still run today.

So you'd think a halfway decent roster shot of an ex-NYC S2E would be good... no.

Or, triple-headed EBT in the snow in 1980 on a freezing cold sunny day? no. Got one in on appeal or a very slight re-crop.

But some generic Shade Gap Electric trolleys on a cloudy day got in on 1st shot.

If I had to pick, I'd submit the steam and skip the trolley's. But, that just shows I don't know what I'm picking

I just have no idea what the value set of the screeners is. I'm pretty sure trying to guess at 2 from 10 or 12 of what I think are roughly equal value is going to be a lost cause.

It is what it is, warts and all, I suppose.

oltmannd 04-29-2011 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136219)
I'm sure you were hit for appealing 50% of rejections.

Regarding your shots -- you and I must have crossed paths out there at some point in time. Man, we were mining the same territory in the late 70s.

We probably have only one or two degrees of separation! I also have a ton of Conrail "Middle Division" stuff from the 1970s and 80s that I haven't gotten to scan yet.

Joe the Photog 04-29-2011 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136260)
So you'd think a halfway decent roster shot of an ex-NYC S2E would be good... no.

Why should a half way decent shot of anything get in?
Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136260)
I just have no idea what the value set of the screeners is.

A pretty decent way to tell would be to go through the database and see what they let in.

Just saying....

trainboysd40 04-29-2011 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136257)
Sounds like someone has given up on taking risks!

And photos.

oltmannd 04-29-2011 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 136263)
Why should a half way decent shot of anything get in?

I don't know why they should, but they do. Regularly.

There are tons of less-than-halfway decent shots that get in. Much of the stuff from the 1950s, for example. Also, there are tons and tons of technically perfect shots of very, very ordinary scenes. Telephoto wedge shots of NS Dash 9s on tangent track for example.

I don't take issue with either, I just find it confusing.

You asked....

milwman 04-29-2011 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136273)
there are tons and tons of technically perfect shots of very, very ordinary scenes.

No way :lol:

coborn35 04-29-2011 05:57 PM

I guess what pisses me off is when people come in here bitching and moaning about the same things we have discussed MULTIPLE times in the last month.

Freericks 04-29-2011 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oltmannd (Post 136260)
So you'd think a halfway decent roster shot of an ex-NYC S2E would be good... no.

Or, triple-headed EBT in the snow in 1980 on a freezing cold sunny day? no. Got one in on appeal or a very slight re-crop.

But some generic Shade Gap Electric trolleys on a cloudy day got in on 1st shot.

If I had to pick, I'd submit the steam and skip the trolley's. But, that just shows I don't know what I'm picking

I just have no idea what the value set of the screeners is. I'm pretty sure trying to guess at 2 from 10 or 12 of what I think are roughly equal value is going to be a lost cause.

It is what it is, warts and all, I suppose.

It's hard to respond in a vacuum, as I don't have access to the shots that didn't get in, but as soon as you say "halfway decent" I am guessing that there was some major issue (like bad high sun, blur, or cropping that cuts off the equipment). The EBT triple header - a tourist operation that is still in existence - will be under similar rules to today, I would think, and the fact that it got in after you made a crop, shows that they saw a real cropping issue. The Shade Gap trolley shots are nicely framed. They are not the best quality no - and I would guess those got in because you had a screener who took them for the nostalgia and the fact that Shade Gap is gone (even if those trolleys still exist at Rockhill).

When you make the comment about picking the steam over the trolleys, I get confused. Aren't you sharing your images for the fun of sharing them? If you don't like something, don't sumbit it just because you think it will get in. Submit stuff you want to share.

It's honestly not that hard to figure out what the screeners want. I say this as someone who still gets a fair share of rejections, but that is because I keep trying with things like rainy day shots of trains still far down the line. I do this because I look at the shots and find myself impressed with what I did and liking them - so I give it a go and fail.

If - however, someone said, submit five pictures a day for the next two weeks and you can't have a single rejection - it would be very easy to do. I'd grab well let images that followed the rule of thirds and have it. But I'm not trying to get as many pics on as I can. Rather, I'm trying to show the stuff that I look at when editing and say "wow, that came out cool..."

I would encourage you to keep submitting. I'm loving what you have up here and it's really a blast to see how many places that you and I covered the same ground (and frankly, you were a far better photographer than I was when you were doing it).

oltmannd 04-29-2011 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136291)
It's hard to respond in a vacuum, as I don't have access to the shots that didn't get in, but as soon as you say "halfway decent" I am guessing that there was some major issue (like bad high sun, blur, or cropping that cuts off the equipment). The EBT triple header - a tourist operation that is still in existence - will be under similar rules to today, I would think, and the fact that it got in after you made a crop, shows that they saw a real cropping issue. The Shade Gap trolley shots are nicely framed. They are not the best quality no - and I would guess those got in because you had a screener who took them for the nostalgia and the fact that Shade Gap is gone (even if those trolleys still exist at Rockhill).

When you make the comment about picking the steam over the trolleys, I get confused. Aren't you sharing your images for the fun of sharing them? If you don't like something, don't sumbit it just because you think it will get in. Submit stuff you want to share.

It's honestly not that hard to figure out what the screeners want. I say this as someone who still gets a fair share of rejections, but that is because I keep trying with things like rainy day shots of trains still far down the line. I do this because I look at the shots and find myself impressed with what I did and liking them - so I give it a go and fail.

If - however, someone said, submit five pictures a day for the next two weeks and you can't have a single rejection - it would be very easy to do. I'd grab well let images that followed the rule of thirds and have it. But I'm not trying to get as many pics on as I can. Rather, I'm trying to show the stuff that I look at when editing and say "wow, that came out cool..."

I would encourage you to keep submitting. I'm loving what you have up here and it's really a blast to see how many places that you and I covered the same ground (and frankly, you were a far better photographer than I was when you were doing it).

I'll keep going - at 2 day, but I think I'm not going to try to play the guessing game. I'll just upload the stuff I really like and take what comes!

To my eye, about 1/2 of the rejects are equivalent to or better than most of my recent accepted photos. I'll have to upload them all somewhere so they can be seen. Maybe Picasa and I'll do a blog or something.

It's funny you mention the rule of thirds being a guaranteed way in. I had a couple rejected for cropping that I appealed based on the rule of thirds (that's how I figured how to crop them in the first place!) that got in on appeal where I pointed that out.

A classic reject will be a train entering a super-elevated curve without a decent horizon, building or other structure, other than the sides of the train still on the tangent, to judge whether the shot is level or not. Even after I've scrupulously rotated the shot so that the car sides in the tangent are vertical most of the time it'll get rejected for not level. But, about 2/3 of the time I've had success explaining. I'm sure at first glance, they appear out of kilter because of the super-elevation.

I think they could stand to add a "not worth it - don't bother" reject reason. Would save a lot of time and trouble for a lot of people. (There might be nicer wording, though...)

Freericks 04-29-2011 07:49 PM

On occasion, they will be click about ten different reasons for the rejection. This is there way of doing that, I believe.

JRMDC 04-29-2011 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136302)
On occasion, they will be click about ten different reasons for the rejection. This is there way of doing that, I believe.

Still bitter, Charles? :) :)

Freericks 04-29-2011 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 136308)
Still bitter, Charles? :) :)

I'm actually told I'm quite sweet, with a touch of a tangy quality... never bitter.

;)

JRMDC 04-29-2011 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 136311)
I'm actually told I'm quite sweet, with a touch of a tangy quality... never bitter.

;)

I don't care to hear about your personal life, thank you very much!

Freericks 04-29-2011 09:52 PM

See, I would never have even gone there.

oltmannd 04-30-2011 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coborn35 (Post 136247)
You will lose your ability to appeal. i haven't been able to appeal since February 2009.

Bingo! You have company...

Man! No yellow card. Straight to red card.

oltmannd 04-30-2011 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coborn35 (Post 136288)
I guess what pisses me off is when people come in here bitching and moaning about the same things we have discussed MULTIPLE times in the last month.

;-)

ya think?

coborn35 04-30-2011 02:00 AM

See if you would have looked at old threads you would have learned from my mistake! :lol:

oltmannd 04-30-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coborn35 (Post 136341)
See if you would have looked at old threads you would have learned from my mistake! :lol:

Double secret probation for me....


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