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-   -   Why EMD > GE (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13604)

Soo 6060 03-03-2011 11:59 PM

Why EMD > GE
 
GE SUCKS!

GE "locomotives":

-Load up too slow
-Catch fire and explode
-Can't last more than 25 years without having to be sent to the scrapper or sold to other railroads (Trash-8s)
-Have used the same cookie-cutter design for years, and all of their locomotives look exactly the same!!!!!!!!!!

EMD:

-Loads when you ACTUALLY move the throttle
-LAST FOR 50+ YEARS! (CF7s)
-Can rarely be found catching fire
-When they do break down, they break down quietly, and don't explode and kill people!

Photoshooter09 03-05-2011 12:41 AM

What is your question and what website did you cut and paste that information from? I could point out several inaccuracies with that cut and paste job but it's not worth my time.

It's like classic Canon vs. Nikon, pick whichever one works better for your application and go for it!

crazytiger 03-05-2011 01:41 AM

After a five second Google search, I got this. Daniel, that's plagiarism. You need to give "Brent" on TO credit (at a bare minimum) for that. You can and will get kicked out of institutions of higher education for that and its every bit as bad as copying one of your photos and presenting this as your own.

stlgevo51 03-05-2011 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo6060
EMD is FAR > GE

What? You spent a whole lot of time (maybe a minute?) pasting an article where many of the advantages are for GE, and you still posted this statement? Why did you post this after posting Brent's opinion which shows the two builders to both be quality products? I don't get it. It seems to be highly contradictory.

Why does everyone whine about this? "GE sucks". "GEs always break down". GEs can't pull a load without exploding". Some railfans whine more than the turbo of a 16-645 (okay, that was a little nerdy) because they can't understand why there are so many GEs. Frankly, I see GEs pulling loads and getting the job done almost always. All coal trains that climb hills with 15,000 tons of coal on the UP are powered by GE AC44s, and I can't recall the last time I saw a GE stall with a train (not that it hasn't happened, but it also happens to EMDs sometimes).

So I will ask you, since you failed to show why EMDs are better, to please explain your reasoning. I'm not a locomotive engineer, so I don't have all of the information on the subject. But at the same time, you are just a railfan as well, so don't act like you are an expert, either (obviously you had to copy-paste someone Else's writing to get your point across, and it still didn't work in my mind).

JRMDC 03-05-2011 02:38 AM

Jake, does Daniel really deserve the time of day here, does he really deserve to have someone take up his "argument"? Why would anyone care about a few characters of text Daniel managed to type in himself after copy/pasting someone else's words?

jnohallman 03-05-2011 02:43 AM

It will be particularly interesting to see what happens to EMD in terms of performance and quality now that it is part of CAT. Essentially, we're looking at round three of the competition between EMD and GE. The first round really started with second generation diesels, as GE as we understand it wasn't a builder of first generation units. The second round was the age of Dash-8s, Dash-9s, MACs and ACes, etc. The CAT takeover of EMD marks a new era for that maker, so we'll have to see what happens going forward.

Jon

stlgevo51 03-05-2011 02:45 AM

You are completely right Janusz. I wasted my time. Unfortunately, this seems to be an epidemic. The topic annoys me, because no one wants to say it's just an opinion. Instead, they make up stuff about GEs being "trash", which is completely untrue.

jnohallman 03-05-2011 03:09 AM

I think some of the affinity for EMD among railfans may be a matter of romanticism, as EMD is the last remaining link to the "glory days" of railroading. All the classic builders are gone - the steam builders who couldn't make the transition successfully to the diesel era, and even the one that did fairly well in Alco. EMD, even though it put all those out of business, is still the company of the E- and F-units, the Geeps and Tunnel Motors and Dash-2s. What is GE by comparison? An upstart that, perhaps more than EMD, people associate with the widecab abomination. So folks who remember, or wish they remembered, the good old days think fondly of EMD and find reasons to look down their noses at GE. Of course, as far as I'm concerned, they've got nothing on Baldwin and Juniata - but that's my own romanticism.

Jon

PLEzero 03-05-2011 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 132592)

EMD is FAR > GE

Give me a call when you touch something other than the horn button and actually run trains. Both manufactures have positives and negatives and it all depends on who you talk to. 8-) :roll:

Janusz - You are completely right but I just can't help myself sometimes.

Ween 03-05-2011 03:23 AM

Massive. Tard. Do you know the difference between the "greater than" and "less than" symbols? Fail.

I think EMD/CAT will have a leg up on Round 3, mostly because of the "save the planet" rules that have to be implemented down the road...

stlgevo51 03-05-2011 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 132725)
I think some of the affinity for EMD among railfans may be a matter of romanticism, as EMD is the last remaining link to the "glory days" of railroading. All the classic builders are gone - the steam builders who couldn't make the transition successfully to the diesel era, and even the one that did fairly well in Alco. EMD, even though it put all those out of business, is still the company of the E- and F-units, the Geeps and Tunnel Motors and Dash-2s. What is GE by comparison? An upstart that, perhaps more than EMD, people associate with the widecab abomination. So folks who remember, or wish they remembered, the good old days think fondly of EMD and find reasons to look down their noses at GE. Of course, as far as I'm concerned, they've got nothing on Baldwin and Juniata - but that's my own romanticism.

Jon

I find it ironic that GE got into the diesel electric locomotive market before EMD, with the help Alco, of course! I understand what you mean though. People associate EMD with diesels more so than GE (and that is very logical, since EMD started widespread production of the technology.)

I agree with your statement, and I also think it is because GEs are far more common. Today, for example, I saw 2 trains, and GEs outnumbered EMD 4-1. I think that because all railroads have bought them in large quantities, many railfans find them boring.

Watain 03-05-2011 03:57 AM

You see more GE's here in the mountains than you do EMD's... As a matter of fact I haven't seen an MAC in 2 years.. Must be for a good reason..

Nothing sounds better to me than a pair of GEVO's throttling up... Except for a Ford Mustang.. :-)

JimThias 03-05-2011 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watain (Post 132747)
Nothing sounds better to me than a pair of GEVO's throttling up... Except for a Ford Mustang.. :-)

Fine. Put that gevo motor in an ACe body and you have a winner. :D

It's all about aesthetics with me. Since I don't drive them and never will, I couldn't care less what's under the hood.

Freericks 03-05-2011 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlgevo51 (Post 132723)
You are completely right Janusz. I wasted my time. Unfortunately, this seems to be an epidemic. The topic annoys me, because no one wants to say it's just an opinion. Instead, they make up stuff about GEs being "trash", which is completely untrue.

There is a dearth of interest today in the value of objectivity over subjectivity. I explained the difference to my son once, when he was much younger, as if you see a movie and someone asks you if it is funny, your answer is subjective. Whether you say yes or no, you are giving a response that is based on your feelings.

If someone asks you if you laughed during the movie, however, your answer is objective. It's a simple yes or no statement based on what actually occurred.

I feel like so much today is subjective, which just gets folks in a tizzy. Objective observations are so much more valuable.

stevenmwelch 03-05-2011 04:49 AM

I'm a little late but as an engineer who runs both of these hunks of crap, I feel pretty confident saying THEY BOTH SUCK! The MAC's load real slow and all the GE's are rattle traps. The MAC's hold the rails VERY VERY well when a GE would be slipping and sliding all over.

Just had a problem two days ago where the morons I work with broke a knuckle, first car, on a 1.58% grade. Luckily the DPU's (two SD75's and a C44-9W) were on somewhat flat ground.. I knew the SD's would grip the rail if I punished them in Run 6 at a standstill. The GEVO and two AC4400CW's on the headend couldn't grip the rails in Run 4... We made it, barely.

All in all, the AC4400's and SD70MAC's suck it up. Give me an ACe anyday.

I'm in agreement with Brad, come back and tell me when you run these units on 18,000 ton coal trains on near 2% grades everyday. MSTS doesn't count. Come out and try it, you break the knuckle, you replace it, and you protect the shove down the hill to double it. On second thought, no, don't come out, I'm not a fan of dying on hours.

Steven M. Welch
Locomotive Engineer/Locomotive Mentor

Ween 03-05-2011 05:11 AM

Steven's real world experience > Daniel's concept of someone else's re-hashed words.

There, that's how you use the "greater than" symbol...

Freericks 03-05-2011 05:12 AM

Crap... I don't want to agree with him... I really, really don't want to agree with him... crap... he's right.

stevenmwelch 03-05-2011 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 132768)
Crap... I don't want to agree with him... I really, really don't want to agree with him... crap... he's right.

LOLOL!!! I don't know how to use > and < things, so I won't bother agreeing. I'll only laugh.

Hey, don't blame me, it wasn't my decision to go to a California public school. And by "go", I mean, not go for my junior and senior year... You know, SD40's roamed the rails then! ;)

milwman 03-05-2011 12:12 PM

There is a world of difference from a Dash 9 44 and an AC 44 with GE's Dash 9's drop their load at first sign of wheel slip and AC do well with wheel slip. That's maybe why BNSF is looking hard at ES 44 AC4's and not getting DC from now on.

Hatchetman 03-05-2011 12:52 PM

The better question is will either of them ever again make an attractive locomotive?

JimThias 03-05-2011 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 132778)
LOLOL!!! I don't know how to use > and < things, so I won't bother agreeing. I'll only laugh.

Here, I'll make it easy for you to understand: Donner > Michigan. :D

trainboysd40 03-05-2011 05:18 PM

Remember? Gators like to eat things that are bigger! That's the most valuable part of my education to date, I believe.

stevenmwelch 03-05-2011 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 132790)
There is a world of difference from a Dash 9 44 and an AC 44 with GE's Dash 9's drop their load at first sign of wheel slip and AC do well with wheel slip. That's maybe why BNSF is looking hard at ES 44 AC4's and not getting DC from now on.

Actually, the Dash 9's do pretty well out here compared to the AC4400's... Must just be the engineer ;)

Watain 03-06-2011 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 132749)
Fine. Put that gevo motor in an ACe body and you have a winner. :D

It's all about aesthetics with me. Since I don't drive them and never will, I couldn't care less what's under the hood.

I don't know about that one. lol I think the GEVO's look better than most newer engines.

I like Spartan cab SD60/70's and the widecab SD60I's but its rare to see either on a coal train. Never cared much for the MAC's unless they are the CSX ones in YN2 paint.

jnohallman 03-06-2011 04:12 AM

I think the worst thing, aesthetically, about most modern diesels is the radiator overhangs. Yuck! How about going back to cowl units? The F45 would be a nice inspiration . . . I know, I know - they're not practical platforms for switching because of the lack of visibility.

Jon

JimThias 03-06-2011 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 132861)
I think the worst thing, aesthetically, about most modern diesels is the radiator overhangs. Yuck!

I think those "wings" look sweet!

trainmaster_1 03-06-2011 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 132872)
I think those "wings" look sweet!

They look cool but they are a pain in the ass, especially if your long hood forward and have to stare at that thing for the entire trip.

troy12n 03-07-2011 06:03 PM

Other than the obvious "OP does not know what he is talking about" piece, the obvious reason GE units are being purchased is price. Looks mean nothing.

JimThias 03-08-2011 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 132965)
Other than the obvious "OP does not know what he is talking about" piece, the obvious reason GE units are being purchased is price. Looks mean nothing.

Of course looks mean nothing to the railroad, but to a photographer such as myself who finds aesthetics important, looks do mean something. But that's neither here nor there.

Soo 6060 03-08-2011 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 132717)
After a five second Google search, I got this. Daniel, that's plagiarism. You need to give "Brent" on TO credit (at a bare minimum) for that. You can and will get kicked out of institutions of higher education for that and its every bit as bad as copying one of your photos and presenting this as your own.

But I never claimed it as my own.

I appreciate your taking the time to tell me that this is plagiarism. I had no idea.

However, all of the other Xperts who love GEs.... I'm not impressed.

Nothing more needs to be said.

nikos1 03-08-2011 11:57 PM

Daniel, why are you even on this forum?.....

bigbassloyd 03-09-2011 12:45 AM

Baldwins = best choo choo ever.

I would shoot Baldwins all day, and they would be epic photos.

Baldwins were cool because I read somewhere that they were, and they handle so awesome on MSTS with 9999999999 ton coal trains.

That is all.

Loyd L.

jnohallman 03-09-2011 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikos1 (Post 133125)
Daniel, why are you even on this forum?.....

Because he has not been made to feel the wrath of the banhammer! :shock:

Jon

stlgevo51 03-09-2011 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 133129)
Baldwins = best choo choo ever.

I would shoot Baldwins all day, and they would be epic photos.

Baldwins were cool because I read somewhere that they were, and they handle so awesome on MSTS with 9999999999 ton coal trains.

That is all.

Loyd L.

:lol: Great comment!

crazytiger 03-09-2011 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133101)
But I never claimed it as my own.

Um, haven't you ever seen one of the long threads about people using shots w/o permission? Yeah, that's what they all say.

stevenmwelch 03-09-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133101)
However, all of the other Xperts who love GEs.... I'm not impressed.

Umm, who here said they love GE? I sure don't, especially after spending 18 hours stuck on one. Nothing like moving further as light power swapping your headend motor with the DPU because the piece of shit won't move. It was one of your AC4400CW's you posted about...

But, the EMD crap trailing couldn't pull itself out of a soggy paper bag, so its all good, overtime is fine and the seats all feel the same when you're sleeping in them waiting for mechanical and a new crew to take the piece of crap off your hands.

Okay, enough REAL RAILROAD TALK, since apparently you have more experience running trains than I do... I'd still LOL (insert Thias' fat girl LOL picture here) watching you try to drag 17,000 to 18,000 tons up Ambrosia Hill (1.8% for 3 miles in New Mexico) with only 6 motors or better yet, drag Springerville Hill (8 miles of 1.4% in Arizona). Lets put it this way, no matter what the power is, we crest at 8 to 11MPH. Could have the newest and coolest ES44AC's and we still top it at 10MPH. Could have the oldest Dash 9's and it still tops at 10. Could have brand new SD70ACe's, and then, you top at 10. Yeah, and that's from 49MPH. Come give it a whirl, see how far you can make it with a train in one piece. Your years of experience on MSTS will do you well, LOL. (what a damn joke you are)

I need a drink, a nap, and another drink. Who's down?

JimThias 03-09-2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 133175)

I need a drink, a nap, and another drink. Who's down?

I'll bring a 6 of Sierra. Scratch that...a case! :D

trainboysd40 03-09-2011 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 133175)
I need a drink, a nap, and another drink. Who's down?

Welch, you know I'm down for bringin' the bed ;)

viper 03-09-2011 03:58 PM

If I could find it I'd bring a suitcase of Alaskan Amber (only ever found it in 6'ers). St. Pauli Girl ok?

Soo 6060 03-09-2011 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 133175)
Since apparently you have more experience running trains than I do...

Who said that I have more experience than you? I certainly didn't, and certainly do not.

I haven't done anything wrong here. I'm still learning but everyone hates kids.


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