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-   -   60D vs. 50D (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13300)

chuckman 12-31-2010 02:19 PM

60D vs. 50D
 
In the near future the time has come for me to do one of two things.

1-Switch to Nikon before I invest money in more expensive Canon lenses

2-Replace my Rebel Xti with a 50D or 60D.

This is where my question comes in. Which one? No I don't care about HD Video, and I would never use it. Take that out of the equation. The 18.1 MP appeals to me, even though digital noise is supposedly a problem at that height. I like the versatility though of bumping the pixels down need be, although I wouldn't do that often. The price new is the same too. I guess my question is "Why should I buy one or the other"?

milwman 12-31-2010 02:27 PM

60D is a fancy rebel, 50D is more of pro camera and under abnormal conditions will do better with the little bumps that go's with railfanning.

JRMDC 12-31-2010 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127660)
60D is a fancy rebel, 50D is more of pro camera and under abnormal conditions will do better with the little bumps that go's with railfanning.

A common belief - emphasis on "belief" - brought about because the 60D is polycarbonate (aka, wait for it, the horror, the horror ... PLASTIC - boo!) and the 50D still has magnesium in its frame.

I've never heard of a rebel-line body falling apart or be damaged, in general and in particular not in a circumstance where a xxD body would have been expected to do better. Now, the nifty-fifty, that is another story! I would ignore the concern about little bumps.

The 50D is a 15mp camera with lots of great features. The 60D goes to 18mp, adds video, adds the flip out screen, takes away one feature that everyone is up in arms about (micro adjust for focus for individual lenses). As for the image quality, high ISO or regular, you can go on line and hunt that info down, I no longer remember it. The 60D is a repositioning of the Canon mid-range line, which has offended some. So online you will run into a lot of flack aimed at the 60D. It seems to be an excellent camera, as far as I can tell. Lots of great things said about it.

As for noise, take a look online, but don't commit the fallacy of comparing 100% crops, when those crops necessarily vary because of the difference in pixels. What matters is the final print/image. DPReview says the 60D is an improvement over the 50D.

Some other things to think about, they changed the card (CF->SD) and the battery. I actually ended up with a used 50D (upgrading from a 20D which has the same sensor as your XT), in part because of the big savings, in part because of the additional savings on cards and batteries, in part because I have no interest in video.

Still looking for a buyer for my 20D body! :)

milwman 12-31-2010 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127663)
A common belief - emphasis on "belief" - brought about because the 60D is polycarbonate (aka, wait for it, the horror, the horror ... PLASTIC - boo!) and the 50D still has magnesium in its frame.

A Plastic its more like a plastic fiberglass mix, 50D is an all magnesium body in and out side with plastic in the flip flash and around the shutter release.

chuckman 12-31-2010 04:27 PM

I think 50D is for me. I know a wedding photographer that is a friend of the family, and is selling her used "backup" 50D for a good price. It has seen little use, and was well taken care of.

JRMDC 12-31-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127665)
A Plastic its more like a plastic fiberglass mix, 50D is an all magnesium body in and out side with plastic in the flip flash and around the shutter release.

This is the first I have heard of a plastic fiberglass mix, every source I have read says polycarbonate.

But the key thing for me is whether it much matters, that is our fundamental disagreement. People don't associate "plastic" with "tough" but they should, in cases where the type of plastic chosen is indeed tough.

milwman 12-31-2010 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127684)
This is the first I have heard of a plastic fiberglass mix, every source I have read says polycarbonate.

But the key thing for me is whether it much matters, that is our fundamental disagreement. People don't associate "plastic" with "tough" but they should, in cases where the type of plastic chosen is indeed tough.

Ok you got me there is NO glass in it, But the Polycarbonate is some what like a fiberglass, And your right it is Tough.

Dennis A. Livesey 12-31-2010 10:16 PM

I well recall guys sayin' they would give up their metal cameras only when pried from their dead, cold hands.

You guys ever wear a Nikon F with the thin leather strap all day?

I invite you to hold both my metal Nikon's bag and my I don't-know-what-kind-of-material-it-is Canon bag.
;-)

Mgoldman 01-01-2011 02:29 PM

GO NIKON!, though Canon 50D/7D are not bad options.

I'll bet you could get a great deal on an older, even used if necessary, Nikon D200. If you feel you have too much invested in Canon to make the switch, I'd save up for 7D, it's the only digital Canon camera I've owned that freed me of "I wish I had a Nikon" thoughts. The 40D, and hence, the 50D should be a nice option if the 7D is just too much to spend. As I understand it, Canon has a better and perhaps less costly line of lenses to choose from. Nikons, from what I've seen seem to have better in camera processing and a sharper more dynamic screen which means you can see if you got the shot on the spot and chances are, if you did, you will have much less secondary processing when you get home.

/Mitch

troy12n 01-01-2011 03:04 PM

There was a big thread about the 60d here when it was introduced, go back and find it. There was a lot of useful info and some less than useful opinions there. It's my opinion that anyone who wants a step up from their older rebel or 20/30d vintage prosumer camera should go either 50d or 7d, maybe even used 40d, but not the 60d, it's too much of a compromise and step down from the positioning that the 50d was. We discussed all that in the forementioned thread.

Joe the Photog 01-01-2011 04:05 PM

As for plastics, my XTi suffered a fall from my back pack onto a hard (though wood, not concrete) surface and has done fine the two years since.

milwman 01-01-2011 04:44 PM

The soft part of a Camera is the lens mount, No brand of camera survives a tweaked mount otherwise most keep working fine. So called Plastic will distort or strip out faster then a metal one. Careless handling with a heavy lens may tweak one = Like an 100-400L lens, Best hold both the camera and lens with a plastic body! There just not made for it. The big lenses as in Canons 300 F2.8L and bigger has strap attachments on the lens as it maybe to much for the metal one.

milwman 01-01-2011 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 127757)
As for plastics, my XTi suffered a fall from my back pack onto a hard (though wood, not concrete) surface and has done fine the two years since.

The first thing to get out of adjustment is the AF Joe if a camera is dropped! That maybe why you're having issues at times with yours??

JRMDC 01-01-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 127755)
but not the 60d, it's too much of a compromise and step down from the positioning that the 50d was. We discussed all that in the forementioned thread.

We did. But the 60D is not a compromise, or a step down. It is a reposition, call it sideways. For some it will be up, for some down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127758)
The soft part of a Camera is the lens mount, No brand of camera survives a tweaked mount otherwise most keep working fine. So called Plastic will distort or strip out faster then a metal one.

I am not aware of any "plastic" DSLR that has a plastic mount. All that I have seen are metal. The 60D mount is metal. There are cheap lenses whose mounting surface is plastic, most notably the Canon "nifty fifty" 50/1.8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127759)
The first thing to get out of adjustment is the AF Joe if a camera is dropped! Ask me! LOL That maybe why you're having issues at times with yours??

Whether or AF goes out of adjustment when a camera is dropped depends on how the shock of the impact is distributed through the camera and lens. I think the "mechanism", in terms of moving parts, is all in the lens, I could be wrong.

milwman 01-01-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127761)



I am not aware of any "plastic" DSLR that has a plastic mount. All that I have seen are metal.



Whether or AF goes out of adjustment when a camera is dropped depends on how the shock of the impact is distributed through the camera and lens. I think the "mechanism", in terms of moving parts, is all in the lens, I could be wrong.

Part 1, The screws that hold the mount screw into the mirror box a metal one holds up much better!
Part 2,The mirror moves and if it's gets out of alinement at all getting sharp photos is out, AF won't work right. Same with the lens mount if the lens isn't in the right alinement it wont focus right.

JRMDC 01-01-2011 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127763)
Part 1, The screws that hold the mount screw into the mirror box a metal one holds up much better!
Part 2,The mirror moves and if it's gets out of alinement at all getting sharp photos is out, AF won't work right. Same with the lens mount if the lens isn't in the right alinement it wont focus right.

screws: fair enough, in principle, in practice does it make a difference?

mirror: I would think the mirror movement would be most affected by the material and construction of the mirror mechanism, not the frame of the camera and the material it is made of, to which the mechanism is at some point attached.

Why do I go on about this? Because there is something about the strong reaction that people have to "plastic", as though there is only one type and it is flimsy, and as though one would never, ever use "plastic" in any sort of high performance application. It bugs me.

And there is something about the strong reaction to the 60D repositioning, as though repositioning only creates differences that are worse, and as though value has no value.

Call it a personal peeve. :)

Dennis A. Livesey 01-01-2011 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127764)

Why do I go on about this? Because there is something about the strong reaction that people have to "plastic", as though there is only one type and it is flimsy, and as though one would never, ever use "plastic" in any sort of high performance application. It bugs me.

And there is something about the strong reaction to the 60D repositioning, as though repositioning only creates differences that are worse, and as though value has no value.

Call it a personal peeve. :)

Well said and I heartily agree J.

milwman 01-01-2011 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127764)
screws: fair enough, in principle, in practice does it make a difference?

mirror: I would think the mirror movement would be most affected by the material and construction of the mirror mechanism, not the frame of the camera and the material it is made of, to which the mechanism is at some point attached.

Your right about the mirror and thats what was getting to, I had 2 points.
As for plastic is fine in a camera for an amateur camera not one for pro glass.
I don't have stats but yes screws wont hold as well in plastic mirror box's and thats is the frame, Its the one thing everything mounts too.:smile:

JRMDC 01-01-2011 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127769)
Your right about the mirror and thats what was getting to, I had 2 points.
As for plastic is fine in a camera for an amateur camera not one for pro glass.
I don't have stats but yes screws wont hold as well in plastic mirror box's and thats is the frame, Its the one thing everything mounts too.:smile:

No you don't have stats. I, for only one, sure, have never heard of lens mount screws coming out and causing a problem.

Feel free to point to DPReview threads, there must be zillions if this is a problem with "plastic" bodies and mounting screws. :) That is where all the whiners go.

milwman 01-01-2011 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 127771)
No you don't have stats. I, for only one, sure, have never heard of lens mount screws coming out and causing a problem.

Feel free to point to DPReview threads, there must be zillions if this is a problem with "plastic" bodies and mounting screws. :) That is where all the whiners go.

My ex worked at a camera store I seen what was going out for repair and for what and what brands, I don't trust DPR forums, Now thats has a bunch of clowns in there talking.

Joe the Photog 01-01-2011 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127759)
The first thing to get out of adjustment is the AF Joe if a camera is dropped! That maybe why you're having issues at times with yours??

Crap. I should have thought about that myself. Two years ago. Crap, crap, crap.

Crap

JRMDC 01-01-2011 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 127772)
My ex worked at a camera store I seen what was going out for repair and for what and what brands, I don't trust DPR forums, Now thats has a bunch of clowns in there talking.

I agree, but the point is that DPReview forums are full of negativism. If there is an outbreak of loose lens mount screws going into plastic bodies, that would certainly be the place to find evidence. You get one minor thing and the entire forum explodes.

Joe the Photog 01-03-2011 10:28 PM

B&H PHoto has the 60D for $999 right now after a rebate.

Joey Bowman 01-04-2011 02:05 AM

Originally I was one of those that did not like the 60D and was upset about it appearing as a "downgrade" to the 50D. The more I read about it and look into it the more I am starting to like it.

Drew.Sabens 01-04-2011 03:21 AM

my dad just picked up a 60D over a 50D and it was well worth it. The auto focus is great the High ISO performance is flat out stunning for the price. Its a great camera and it allows you to do a little more then the 50D. Personally I'm waiting on the new 5DmkIII to come out as Full frame is where its at IMO


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