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-   -   Why EMD > GE (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13604)

bigbassloyd 06-03-2011 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 138191)
Neither is as American as POM Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold

F-C-I-G Awesome.

That is all

Loyd L.

jnohallman 06-03-2011 04:24 PM

EMD is not the same as GM. It didn't start out under GM, and hasn't been a part of GM since 2005. That doesn't make it any less American, though.

Jon

stlgevo51 06-03-2011 09:09 PM

Aren't you guys forgetting ALCO?

Freericks 06-03-2011 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 138195)
EMD is not the same as GM. It didn't start out under GM, and hasn't been a part of GM since 2005. That doesn't make it any less American, though.

Jon

Many of GM's parts began as independent companies.

General Electric began in the locomotive business as Alco's partner.

Regarding Alco, they've sadly been gone for 42 years (Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin and Lima have been gone for longer).

J 06-03-2011 09:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 138208)
Regarding Alco, they've sadly been gone for 42 years (Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin and Lima have been gone for longer).

As for locomotive (in North America) go, that is correct. India has a huge fleet of Alco-powered locomotive built under license and Fairbanks Morse still markets their 38D opposed piston engine and the Alco 251 engine for industrial power uses.

http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/engine_fm_alco_251.php

JRMDC 06-03-2011 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J (Post 138209)
As for locomotive (in North America) go, that is correct. India has a huge fleet of Alco-powered locomotive built under license and Fairbanks Morse still markets their 38D opposed piston engine and the Alco 251 engine for industrial power uses.

http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/engine_fm_alco_251.php

Wow, I didn't know, I thought the opposed piston engine was an engineering failrure!

JimThias 06-03-2011 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 138191)
Neither is as American as POM Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold

:lol: Good one.

troy12n 06-04-2011 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 138211)
Wow, I didn't know, I thought the opposed piston engine was an engineering failrure!

FM was not very successful in Railroad applications due to "things other than the engine" (trucks & electrical system mainly) and poor marketing, but those engines are virtually indestructible and used extensively in Naval applications, earth moving equipment and cranes and other industrial applications.

Some RR's were huge on FM, such as the Virginian RY which was exclusively FM after dieselization (apart from their Electric operations). Their 6 axle trainmasters were used successfully by N&W as yard engines in their bigger coal terminals (Norfolk, Portsmouth, Bluefield, Mullens) well into the 70's.

Freericks 06-04-2011 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 138216)
FM was not very successful in Railroad applications due to "things other than the engine" (trucks & electrical system mainly) and poor marketing, but those engines are virtually indestructible and used extensively in Naval applications, earth moving equipment and cranes and other industrial applications.

Some RR's were huge on FM, such as the Virginian RY which was exclusively FM after dieselization (apart from their Electric operations). Their 6 axle trainmasters were used successfully by N&W as yard engines in their bigger coal terminals (Norfolk, Portsmouth, Bluefield, Mullens) well into the 70's.

I was on the USS Salt Lake City maybe ten or so years ago and noticed the back up power was a Colt OP engine.

J 06-04-2011 12:56 AM

FM was a long-time supplier of industrial equipment including pumps, large and small engines, scales, windmills, rail inspection cars, etc. After a few hesitant starts in the locomotive business (a switch engine and a Southern railcar) FM entered the business in a big way after WWII; a seemingly great time to participate in the huge replacement of steam locomotives. However their start was slow (partnering with GE to manufacture "Erie Builds") and they needed a break through design to differentiate themselves from the competition. The 2400 HP Train Master was the most powerful unit available when it began touring in 1953. Available with steam heat boiler, schedule 24 , powerful dynamic brakes it was intended (and did) serve any purpose including heavy acceleration commute power (CNJ and SP), heavy drag freight (Virginian and Wabash) etc. By this time other builders (including some who would later fail) had built hundreds more units than FM so they were relegated to being a niche player. Even so, when properly maintained they were very successful. SP used Train Masters in the Bay Area (demanding service - environmental concerns) until they reached 20. Supposedly one factor in their success was available retired navy personnel who had worked on FM ship power during their tours.
The next time you visit San Francisco, head over to Fisherman's Wharf where you can tour the submarine SS POMPANO (equipped with FM diesels.).

Freericks 06-04-2011 01:12 AM

Do the TVA units still work in regular service?

milwman 06-04-2011 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 138216)
FM was not very successful in Railroad applications due to "things other than the engine" (trucks & electrical system mainly) and poor marketing,

And damn expensive to work on, You had to pull the block to work on the lower half.

trainboysd40 06-04-2011 04:32 PM

That's right...they could hold the rail like nothing else, but maintenance was their downfall. The area I'm modelling used CP's entire fleet of F-M locomotives (Built by CLC, of course) up until they started retiring them in the early- to mid-70s. They say that a single H16-44 could handle the same tonnage as 3 GP9s up the 4.whatever % Warfield hill...

BrandonT 06-05-2011 07:51 AM

The only railroading experience I have is from MSTS, so I really don't know how GE's and EMD's "drive." :lol:
I do know a thing or two about flying gliders, but that's a little different! :roll:
I'll take whatever train I can get!

viper 06-06-2011 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J (Post 138219)
The next time you visit San Francisco, head over to Fisherman's Wharf where you can tour the submarine SS POMPANO (equipped with FM diesels.).

Not to nitpick but...

That would be USS PAMPANITO (SS-383). SS POMPANO would be a merchie, not a fleet boat. There was a USS POMPANO (SS-181) however but she's on eternal patrol, not at Fisherman's Wharf.

JimThias 06-07-2011 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper (Post 138296)
Not to nitpick but...

That would be USS PAMPANITO (SS-383). SS POMPANO would be a merchie, not a fleet boat. There was a USS POMPANO (SS-181) however but she's on eternal patrol, not at Fisherman's Wharf.

Submarine geek! :lol:

;)

Freericks 06-07-2011 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138318)
Submarine geek! :lol:

;)

Be very, very, very careful, Jim... calling someone a geek on a railfan site is tantamount to crossing the streams.

And as Harold Ramis has warned us, crossing the steams is bad.

viper 06-07-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138318)
Submarine geek! :lol:

;)


:lol: I'll take that title. Military aircraft, tanks, and warships are my forte; been studying them since I was 5. I have a bit to learn still on locomotives, you all have me easily beat there.


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