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-   -   Why EMD > GE (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13604)

JimThias 03-11-2011 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133386)
Ok, well first of all YOU DO NOT DRIVE A TRAIN. YOU RUN OR OPERATE IT. THERE IS NO STEERING WHEEL.

Is it a vehicle? Does the vehicle go in motion? A vehicle doesn't need to be able to steer to be drivable.

JimThias 03-11-2011 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133408)
Obviously you're an engineer, so you're going to know, so quite frankly, I'm not quite sure why it's such a "huge accomplishment" for you to know what you're doing.

So, in other words, you would NOT know what you're doing when it comes to driving a train, right?

Ok, so back to my original point...you only dislike GEs because you don't like the way they look. Fine, I don't care for high hoods either, but I really don't give a damn how well they operate.

You threw out a bunch of stuff earlier about locomotives that has NOTHING to do with driving one which, again, was what you were called out on to begin with. If you don't know what it's like to drive one, then you shouldn't throw out your opinion as if you DO know.

I have no clue on how to drive one myself, and I don't care to have a clue. It's not my job to drive a locomotive. But the difference is that I know better than to try to make it sound like I know what I'm talking about when I have no clue. Unfortunately you haven't been able to exercise that yourself.

Soo 6060 03-11-2011 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 133437)
So, in other words, you would NOT know what you're doing when it comes to driving a train, right?

Ok, so back to my original point...you only dislike GEs because you don't like the way they look. Fine, I don't care for high hoods either, but I really don't give a damn how well they operate.

I mean, I'm not fighting anyone, here. I don't know why you people get this way. I'm particularly disappointed in your last few posts, Jim. I thought actually meeting one of the more "famous" RP forum guys was a neat experience, but I guess that means damn nothing.

Anyway, my philosophy (A 9 year old uses THAT word? :shock:) on GE and why I hate it is that:

They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
They can't last more than 25 years without going to the scrapper
They can't last more than 25 years without go to the second hand market

Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

stlgevo51 03-11-2011 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

It seems like people who hate GEs (I'm not saying "only like EMDs") seem to be very confrontational people. Not only do they argue a lot, but they seem steadfastly dedicated to prove "GE lovers" wrong. I don't care that you don't like GEs (I don't fully understand it, but it is just an opinion), but I, like most people on this forum, think you are acting like way to much of a "know it all" (for lack of a better term).

As far as RP not wanting to see good power, please tell me how this is true. I think the whole point of RP is to show off good photography. If a special unit or a consist with good power meets all of the guidelines, than sure, it will get in. But if the shot doesn't meet the guidelines, no matter what the power, it most likely will not. It is such a simple concept. I still don't know where you came up with such a statement.

Jake- still waiting excitedly to see some flames billowing from the stack of an AC44!

nikos1 03-11-2011 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
Anyway, my philosophy (A 9 year old uses THAT word? :shock:) on GE and why I hate it is that:

Here we go with the third grade honor student crap again......:roll:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
They can't last more than 25 years without going to the scrapper
They can't last more than 25 years without go to the second hand market

Opinions, opinions, opinions..............every railfan has their likes and dislikes, but no need to start a whole thread about it. You wouldve had a better case if you had stated you dont like them on a aesthetic dimension rather than trying to make up some BS on how GE's suck because the way they run. I dont care for GE widecabs either (love Dash 7's and U-Boats though) but I dont go around pretending that I know about how they run. Maybe you got to go sit in the cab of an EMD and blow the horn, good for you, doesnt mean you know a thing though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

From what I know about Max, I hardly think he is a "multiple expletives deleted GE lover", he just thinks rationally as opposed to your irrational hatred of GE's and your need to constant need to voice it.
Again, its your own fault if you want to instigate flamewars, dont go running back to your mommy to have her write letters to the nasty people on the forum.

jnohallman 03-11-2011 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
I mean, I'm not fighting anyone, here. I don't know why you people get this way. I'm particularly disappointed in your last few posts, Jim. I thought actually meeting one of the more "famous" RP forum guys was a neat experience, but I guess that means damn nothing.

Anyway, my philosophy (A 9 year old uses THAT word? :shock:) on GE and why I hate it is that:

They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
They can't last more than 25 years without going to the scrapper
They can't last more than 25 years without go to the second hand market

With all due respect, you can't say "I'm not fighting anyone" and then go on to rehash the business that started this whole thread by restating your disdain for GE. I'm afraid it just isn't helping your case, and only encourages certain people to keep piling on. It isn't my intention to do that, and I'm sorry if it seems like I am, but I really am trying to help you see what brings on what reactions. Beyond that, the first 7 reasons you list for hating GE are entirely subjective - they're your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but they don't empirically make the case for EMD being better the GE or vice-versa. As far as aesthetics and sounds go, I like steam engines a lot better that diesels. But that doesn't make them a better product objectively. That's why those kind of statements just cause fights. As for the last 3 reasons you mention, here are a couple things to consider.

1. Anything with a turbocharger is subject to blowing up and shooting flames when (not if, when) the turbocharger fails. There was a rather interesting article in a recent issue of TRAINS magazine about the subject. It's worth finding and reading for anyone with a general interest in the subject.
2 & 3. 25 years to the scrapper or second-hand market. Not only are the statements contradictory - if they go on the second-hand market, they're not going to the scrapper - but they also relate to a good many EMD products of the last generation as well. The GP 50 and SD 50 were both flops. An awful lot of SD 60s seem to have ended up in the hands of leasing companies. But the other thing to keep in mind is that the tightening up of EPA emissions regulations has a lot to do with the replacement of even relatively new power that no longer meets the standards. Besides, if you look at the history of railroading, there are an awful lot of engines from all kinds of manufacturers that didn't make it to 25 years in primary assignments on Class I railroads. Those that did were exceptions.

Jon

Soo 6060 03-11-2011 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlgevo51 (Post 133446)
Jake- still waiting excitedly to see some flames billowing from the stack of an AC44!

It's in one of the most recent Trains magazine articles.

jnohallman 03-11-2011 03:12 AM

Incidentally, it's the very fact that turbos with a lot of mileage on them are susceptible to blowing up that led to the removal of the turbochargers and resulting derating of a lot of older EMD power, which is partly responsible for the extended lives of those units.

Jon

JimThias 03-11-2011 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
I'm particularly disappointed in your last few posts, Jim. I thought actually meeting one of the more "famous" RP forum guys was a neat experience, but I guess that means damn nothing.

Hey, I just submit pictures to this website. I don't have anything to do with being "famous"...whatever that means.

Quote:

Anyway, my philosophy (A 9 year old uses THAT word? :shock:) on GE and why I hate it is that:

They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
So, in other words, you hate they way they look. That's all I've been trying to get you to admit from the start since you know nothing about running them. Great. I'm glad you finally admitted it.

You know, I'm glad I don't understand this GE vs. EMD thing. I can't even grasp the concept of why a railfan would have any say in the matter. I just take pictures. If the locomotive is clean and attractive, that's all I care about. I couldn't care less who made it.

trainboysd40 03-11-2011 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
I mean, I'm not fighting anyone, here. I don't know why you people get this way. I'm particularly disappointed in your last few posts, Jim. I thought actually meeting one of the more "famous" RP forum guys was a neat experience, but I guess that means damn nothing.

Anyway, my philosophy (A 9 year old uses THAT word? :shock:) on GE and why I hate it is that:

They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
They can't last more than 25 years without going to the scrapper
They can't last more than 25 years without go to the second hand market

Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

Oi oi oi, insult what you like, but do NOT blanket insult horns! The CP AC4400CW horns are quite lovely, thank you very much!
Oh, and you don't like them because they're too common? Well boo freaking hoo, if you had your way EMDs would be too common, would you hate them for that then?

stevenmwelch 03-11-2011 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlgevo51 (Post 133446)
Jake- still waiting excitedly to see some flames billowing from the stack of an AC44!

I got my third motor tonight to spit fire... And I got my EMD DPU (SD75I) to go belly up, too.. Guess those EMD's are still far superior? At least the Dash 9 that was breathing fire got me up and over the hill!

Thanks DandyDan for proving that you're only a damn foamer with no knowledge of how to run a train.

stevenmwelch 03-11-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)
They sound like they're going to explode
They have garbage horns
They have ugly trucks
They have an ugly carbody
They have an ugly cab
The radiators are ugly, especially the GEVOs
They're too common
They blow up and shoot fire out of the stack
They can't last more than 25 years without going to the scrapper
They can't last more than 25 years without go to the second hand market

Garbage horns? And EMD's K3's are any better?

Ugly trucks? The EMD 70 series trucks look pretty similar to the CP Hi-Ad's.

Carbody looks fine to me.

Cab does too.

Radiators are bitchin, unless you're 6'4" like me and have to duck when walking by them.

Too common? Last I checked there were a crapload of EMD's, too.

Fire is cool.

Hmm, check out the SD50's, where are they? Leased or filled with Pepsi. . .


I'm with Jim. . . If its clean, its fine with me. . . But as an engineer, hell, I dunno, give me a few SD45's and a couple Dash 9's and I'd be content.

(Just finished yanking 118 empties up the 1.8% with only 1 unit online, nothing like 14MPH and 1400 amps!! Hey, it was a GE, too!)

jnohallman 03-11-2011 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 133461)
Thanks DandyDan for proving that you're only a damn foamer with no knowledge of how to run a train.

Alright Steven. My turn to call you out now that I've spent time trying to get your target to calm down. You're even worse than he is. If you feel the need to point out that his statements are outlandish, there are better ways to do it than to be demeaning and denigrating. And if you get some kind of perverse pleasure out of piling on, so much the sadder for you.

Jon

Ween 03-11-2011 04:06 PM

MINI = awesome

jnohallman 03-11-2011 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween (Post 133469)
MINI = awesome

I didn't think those giant telesmash lenses would fit inside a MINI! :lol:

Jon

Soo 6060 03-11-2011 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenmwelch (Post 133462)
Garbage horns? And EMD's K3's are any better?

Ugly trucks? The EMD 70 series trucks look pretty similar to the CP Hi-Ad's.

Carbody looks fine to me.

Cab does too.

Radiators are bitchin, unless you're 6'4" like me and have to duck when walking by them.

Too common? Last I checked there were a crapload of EMD's, too.

Fire is cool.

Hmm, check out the SD50's, where are they? Leased or filled with Pepsi. . .


I'm with Jim. . . If its clean, its fine with me. . . But as an engineer, hell, I dunno, give me a few SD45's and a couple Dash 9's and I'd be content.

(Just finished yanking 118 empties up the 1.8% with only 1 unit online, nothing like 14MPH and 1400 amps!! Hey, it was a GE, too!)

But why does everyone have to bash my opinion?

milwman 03-11-2011 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133478)
But why does everyone have to bash my opinion?

Its the way you word it, Comes off wrong.

PLEzero 03-11-2011 10:20 PM

I think it's time to cut this kid some slack. We all know he has some learning to do and I think we've all had an opportunity to express our opinions. Is it really necessary that some of you continue to argue with someone that is so much younger than almost everyone else on the forum? Some of the adults here have just as much growing up to do as Daniel. It was amusing for a while but now it's time we all just let it go.

Daniel, sometimes less can be more. It's time you take a break and let this pass over. You're only continuing to hurt your reputation at this point.

Ween 03-12-2011 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 133471)
I didn't think those giant telesmash lenses would fit inside a MINI! :lol:

Jon

Oh, no, they do, but do you think I'm allowed to railfan in the MINI?!? :D

Watain 03-13-2011 09:35 AM

Trains are awesome.

Freericks 03-13-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133478)
But why does everyone have to bash my opinion?

I've got no dog in this fight. Last good looking GE was the cab unit set of demonstrators that ran on the Erie and then UP bought in the 1950s.

Last good looking EMD was the FP45.

But here's the thing... I just gave an opinion, and everyone is now free to jump on and attack it. Why? Because it is just that... an opinion, my feelings (possibly based on some objective data, possibily purely subjective, however, either way, by its very nature, an attack itself on someone else's opinion).

There are folk who think the U25C was a great looking locomotive. My first statement above, whether true or not for me, is still an attack on their opinion, because it tacitly states that I am saying that my opinion is better than theirs.

It doesn't matter what board you post on, or what topic you choose, if you take a side on something (swimming pools are ugly, Kia's are cheap, rocky road is the best ice cream) you will have other people who feel differently read that and feel challenged.

If you want to post an opinion like EMD is greater than GE, you just have to accept that you are starting a battle. If you are up for the battle, have fun at it. If you don't want the battle, you're better off posting less opinion and more requests for advice and assistance. It' 100% up to you, which you prefer.

coborn35 03-15-2011 05:22 PM

Wow. Give this fool the banhammer already.
And for the record Jim, no one refers to it as driving. That was annoying me too :)
In the UK you drive, in the US you "run" or "operate" a locomotive.

CN Railfan 03-16-2011 03:01 AM

I just enjoy getting out and capturing whatever railroad action I can chance upon.

JimThias 03-16-2011 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coborn35 (Post 133659)
And for the record Jim, no one refers to it as driving. That was annoying me too :)
In the UK you drive, in the US you "run" or "operate" a locomotive.

I couldn't care less what anyone refers to it as. Simply put, it's driving.

mark woody 03-16-2011 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 133728)
I couldn't care less what anyone refers to it as. Simply put, it's driving.

Agreed. Over here Locomotive Enginemen [proper term] are called enginemen over there they are engineers, long story short they are train drivers.

coborn35 03-16-2011 04:43 AM

Fine by me, just sounds really dumb.

JimThias 03-16-2011 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coborn35 (Post 133731)
Fine by me, just sounds really dumb.

Sorry, can't help you with that one.

coborn35 03-16-2011 05:42 AM

Doesnt need any helping, to each his own.

BarrySr 04-03-2011 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)

...They have garbage horns...



Damned garbage horns! Always get in my way when I have to remove them before I take out the trash.

Oh; and yeah, those stupid garbage horns REALLY get annoying when I'm checking in the WM trucks to the landfill here in Lewisville, TX. I mean, can you IMAGINE the sound of HUNDREDS of garbage horns going off in those trucks?! Can't hardly hear yourself think!

BarrySr 04-03-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soo 6060 (Post 133442)

...Also:

People who love GEs tend to have the reputation to mess with me, Like Max Medlin, and all of these other Youtube users.

Glad to meet you, sir. We're gonna get along juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine; hehehe....:twisted:

BarrySr 04-03-2011 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 133541)

There are folk who think the U25C was a great looking locomotive.


Huh? You talkin' to me; you TALK - IN' ta ME?!

I think you're talking about, ohhh, maybe 2 - 3 people...:lol:

JRMDC 04-03-2011 05:52 PM

Somehow already thin attempts at humor fall even flatter when expressed 18 days after the previous post in a thread. :)

EMD 04-16-2011 04:22 PM

First off, I’m kindda embarrassed that my first reply in this forum goes to a”which one is better” kind of topic.

My opinion is that you guys (I’m not American) should be proud of your country’s rail heritage, especially the diesels’. I think that what US has produced thus far is of an excellence of itself.
I love US engines, their looks, power but especially their sounds. They’re unique and I’m sure they’re good, reliable and effective too, otherwise you would start importing locos.

I’m also one that is a little EMD biased. And that is mainly because – from what I’ve read, seen or discussed – they seem more in line with the general view of what’s more American kind of way, if you understand what I mean. Kindda like: why most truckers prefer Peterbilts to K-Whoppers or Fords? Looks, sounds and mostly depending to which fan side you’re talking to.
But I also like what GE is building and boy, do I miss ALCO? I’ve met more people of an advanced age telling me that if they could run trains again, they would only choose Alcos if they could… Yet Alco, in spite of their huge know-how, well built machines and a decent fan base had to dip the flag and admit that others were better; not particularly at building locos but at the whole spectrum of surviving the business of building locos. ‘Cose yes, after all, it’s a business.

EMDs are better then GEs? I don’t think so. Besides, there might be tons of reasons why Amtrak chose a GE replacement for their EMD F40PHs. It’s probably because GE spends a lot more time in R&D of other areas like speed, economy, foreign technology, design features and the likes; in other words being the builder that’s more open to other less American ideas…
But then again, ALCO built legends: the Challengers and the BigBoys. EMD did it too with SD40 series. Yet GE, all taken, appears to have failed in this department. Could it also be this that boosts the “Boo-GE” camp????

One has also to remember that EMD was always kind of the smaller of the two in terms of finances. That surely impacts on a series of things that limits other things. Now with a new-found rich parent in Caterpillar I wonder what new things would flash the EMD badge to the future?

Both are great. Both have (like all things) pluses and minuses.
But in the end, be proud you have them!

Andrew Hamblyn 06-01-2011 08:38 PM

Yay!! A GE vs EMD debate! :D

Here in li'l ol' New Zealand, on he mainlin we have two models of EMD export locos (both built by GMDD Canada) and one built by GE.

Personally I am a big fan of our 35 year old GE's (rebuilt several times over) than our 30 year old rebuilt GM's.

Why? Well the GE's ( http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=364839 ) are heavier, have more horsepower, will pull anything and all have recently (last 5 years or so) been rebuilt with Brightstar control systems and brand new cabs with very good ergonomics for the LE's. They are very comfy and uber reliable.

Now, to be fair, our GM's are only 2400hp (turbo 645-12) vs our GE's 3000hp (7fdl12) and are about 10 tons lighter, and quite slippery on their feet.
( http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307041 )

Unmolested the GM's were pretty responsive compared to the GE's and when fitted with a locally made wheelslip module ( Maxitrax ) they could pull like nothing, just somewhat slower than the GE's.
The Maxitrax modules wore out, and the designer fled the country and took his intellectual property with him so our railway boffins decided that GE's Brightstar system would be a good replacement to manage the GM locos, but how sadly wrong they were, and they turned an ok loco into a dog really quickly.
Long story short, they stopped fitting Brightstar to the GM locos and started using the big GE's on services to replace the now useless GM locos.

Our GM's were rebuilt in the early 90's, fitted with turbos locally and had extra weight added, but now 20 years on they shake and rattle and bounce and wobble something feirce and not very nice to operate....

Plus our GE's spit out flames, sound fantastic and go hard. Also due to the local operation I spend more time in GE's than GM's.... sweet!

Andrew Hamblyn
Loco Engineer,
Kiwi Rail
NZ

JimThias 06-02-2011 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMD (Post 135530)

I’m also one that is a little EMD biased. And that is mainly because – from what I’ve read, seen or discussed – they seem more in line with the general view of what’s more American kind of way, if you understand what I mean.

Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that! :D

jnohallman 06-02-2011 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138132)
Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that! :D

GE has also apparently found out a way to avoid paying taxes, which is also the "American way" . . . :lol:

Jon

JRMDC 06-02-2011 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138132)
Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that! :D

Well, how much more "American" can one get than General Motors, as in baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 138156)
GE has also apparently found out a way to avoid paying taxes, which is also the "American way" . . . :lol:

Jon

ha ha ha ha, sad but true

I presume that GM, having received billions in a bailout, or the government having lost billions during its period of ownership, or whatever the details are, is also practicing a form of the "American way".

Please, please, let's not get into an argument about whether the bailout or TARP, etc., were worth it! Let's just enjoy train photography here. :) :)

Freericks 06-02-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138132)
Not sure I understand, but just for S & G, I'd have to say GE is much more the "American way" than EMD considering Thomas Edison had something to do with the creation of the company back in the 1800s. It doesn't get any more "American" than that! :D

More American that General Motors?

You ever hear the quote, "As GM goes, so goes the nation?"

How about "What's good for General Motors is good for the country and vice-versa?"

As J noted, "They go together, in the good old USA, baseball and hotdogs, apple pie, and cheverolet."

"See the USA in your Cheverolet."

None of which is to say GE isn't American, but it doesn't get more American than GM.

Willie Durant is spinning in his grave.

JimThias 06-03-2011 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 138160)
None of which is to say GE isn't American, but it doesn't get more American than GM.

To me, GE is more of an American iconic business name than GM, but that's just me. ;)

troy12n 06-03-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 138190)
To me, GE is more of an American iconic business name than GM, but that's just me. ;)

Neither is as American as POM Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold


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