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-   -   Rant: These Casey / NS staged photos of the heritage units (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15299)

troy12n 04-20-2012 12:29 AM

Rant: These Casey / NS staged photos of the heritage units
 
Think you could take a few minutes and shoot them in proper light?

Some of them are downright atrocious lighting conditions. And I am talking about the ones staged at the shops / yards for the most part.

Is the site that desperate for views that they just accept the first thing through? They cant wait 8-12 hours for someone to shoot the thing in proper light?

I really held my comments until today's high sun Interstate shot.

I hope NS isnt paying this guy.

JRMDC 04-20-2012 12:55 AM

Jim, where's that popcorn emoticon?

nikos1 04-20-2012 12:57 AM

Troy, if you were up this way today you would understand that Casey didn't have that much sun to play with today. Yes they are paying Casey, and I think he's doing a fine job, really people just because these are getting more views than your shots no need to nitpick, I think its really cool that NS is going through the effort to post these on here. Also if they don't publish a photo first someone will leak a shot like with the CR unit, Casey and NS was pretty unhappy about that.

magicman_841 04-20-2012 12:59 AM

The Pennsy shot from yesterday was even worse. But it wasn't long ago that Amtrak rolled out its special units and RP accepted sub-par shots to "be the first".

I assume (hope) they're paying him.

I understand they want to be the first to publish pictures of their special units, which to me is kind of a party-pooping thing to do. Isn't this the whole point of heritage units? See who'll be the first railfan to catch them on the road?

Oh well.

jnohallman 04-20-2012 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicman_841 (Post 154396)
Isn't this the whole point of heritage units? See who'll be the first railfan to catch them on the road?

Oh well.

Actually:
"First person to email altoonaworks(at)gmail.com with a good photo of the Juniata-painted heritage units will win a prize"

http://www.altoonaworks.info/heritage.html

Jon

Joe the Photog 04-20-2012 01:08 AM

Think of the photos as more press conferences than official portraits. The only difference is that none of the press are invited. But I've got a feeling NS is not that keen on Casey waiting for better sun (or in the case of the PRR unit, any sun) to do his photos.

I went to a press conference today where the governor of South Carolina was on hand at a ribbon cutting for a new industry. It was cloudy, windy and a little chilly, but there was no way they could have postponed that presser for those reasons. I guess it's the same thing with the NS Heritage Unit photos.

If it were me, I'd want NS to spend just a little more time on the shots. Some of the yard shots have cruddy, old units in the background that should not be there. The nighttime shot of the N&W unit has really bad lighting on the front trucks. NS should realize that these are actually once in a lifetime shots of these units at their cleanest. But I understand the reasoning behind both them rushing the shots and RP accepting them. These page views are going to go where the Heritage units are. It's not like any of u would say, "I'm going to wait until they meet the fine, critical merits of this web site before I view them." So in that way, the onus is on NS to "put them in better light" than it is on RP.

IMHO

troy12n 04-20-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikos1 (Post 154393)
Also if they don't publish a photo first someone will leak a shot like with the CR unit, Casey and NS was pretty unhappy about that.

"Leak" a photo? You mean take a picture of it before NS can? Come on man...

Is NS racing to become the lowest common denominator like news outlets where it's more important to be "first" than to be "good"?

So the weather sucks, so what. Take the picture the next day. So NS doesn't get the first "scoop", so what...

Railpictures is enabling them too, they don't have to accept it do they? Question to the screeners, have you ever rejected on of their shots? Be honest...

troy12n 04-20-2012 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 154400)
I went to a press conference today where the governor of South Carolina was on hand at a ribbon cutting for a new industry. It was cloudy, windy and a little chilly, but there was no way they could have postponed that presser for those reasons. I guess it's the same thing with the NS Heritage Unit photos.

I dont think that is a valid comparison. A press conference is not the same as a commercial photo shoot where quality is the most important thing. Plus, I would venture to guess that the governor's time is a little more tight than NS.

jnohallman 04-20-2012 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154403)
Plus, I would venture to guess that the governor's time is a little more tight than NS.

Actually, I'd venture to guess that NS' time is tighter than the governor's. Matching up the need for horsepower with the schedule for trains is probably tighter than we tend to imagine - and if NS had a surplus of power sitting around, they wouldn't be buying a bunch of new units.

Jon

nikos1 04-20-2012 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154402)
"Leak" a photo? You mean take a picture of it before NS can? Come on man...

Is NS racing to become the lowest common denominator like news outlets where it's more important to be "first" than to be "good"?

So the weather sucks, so what. Take the picture the next day. So NS doesn't get the first "scoop", so what...

Railpictures is enabling them too, they don't have to accept it do they? Question to the screeners, have you ever rejected on of their shots? Be honest...

Casey's current assignment is to publicly debut the Heritage units, so yes it is important since thats what NS wants. Having some crappy backlit picture released first is even worse like with the CR unit. The units need to be gotten into service too so they can't just leave them sitting around for optimal lighting.
Its not like Casey doesn't follow up with better shots of the units on the road.
[photoid=395019]
[photoid=392928]

Freericks 04-20-2012 01:33 AM

Everywhere I look, kvetching yentas.

Joe the Photog 04-20-2012 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154403)
A press conference is not the same as a commercial photo shoot where quality is the most important thing.

That was kinda my point, Troy. These photos are press conferences (minus the press) and not commercial photo shoots.
Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154403)
Plus, I would venture to guess that the governor's time is a little more tight than NS.

Yeah. Maybe.....

http://www.vogue.com/magazine/articl...ew-horizons/#1

JRMDC 04-20-2012 02:07 AM

Charles, another shameless plug for another book! This time subtle, subconscious! Consciously no one will remember that your new avatar is the cover of your new book! (I remember! And I'm not buying it! Of course, I don't live in SoCal either.)

khalucha 04-20-2012 02:13 AM

Is this what you are looking for http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...atdrink033.gif

Joe the Photog 04-20-2012 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154402)
Is NS racing to become the lowest common denominator like news outlets where it's more important to be "first" than to be "good"?

You're mixing your analogies, too. NS isn't a news source in this scenario. That would RP. NS is the large corporation trying to get their brand out there at the same time trying to promote a good image. We can debate whether these photos are doing that. It's a bit of a con game that they want to be first to get the images out. And like I said, I would suggest better and different ways to do it. But there's a bit of an absurd arguement here that the photos should all be great. They're not trying to be great; they're rolling the units out of the shop and having pictures made. I didn't note the clouds in the PRR shot or the high sun in the Interstate shot.

troy12n 04-20-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 154419)
NS is the large corporation trying to get their brand out there at the same time trying to promote a good image. We can debate whether these photos are doing that.

But dont you think if that was their intention they would present their trophies in the best possible light (pun intended)?

And to the person who insinuated that NS is so power short that every second these new units are not on the road that NS is losing money and the railroad is screeching to a halt, please, stop. It makes you look ignorant. I know you know better than that.

PLEzero 04-20-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154420)
But dont you think if that was their intention they would present their trophies in the best possible light (pun intended)?

And to the person who insinuated that NS is so power short that every second these new units are not on the road that NS is losing money and the railroad is screeching to a halt, please, stop. It makes you look ignorant. I know you know better than that.

Unreal thread. Thanks for starting it. You really think NS cares if a roster shot is taken in perfect sweet evening light? Time is money... I can't believe you're ignorant enough to think NS should keep a new locomotive out of service longer than it needs to in order to get that 'perfect' shot. You should be happy NS recognizes RP enough to work out this deal in the first place. Sure they aren't perfect, that's not the point of these photos. You need to look no further than nscorp.com to see that NS doesn't care if a photo is artistically ground breaking and absolutely perfect according to an amateur train photographer web site.

jnohallman 04-20-2012 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154420)
And to the person who insinuated that NS is so power short that every second these new units are not on the road that NS is losing money and the railroad is screeching to a halt, please, stop. It makes you look ignorant. I know you know better than that.

If you actually think that's what I was saying in my comment, then you are the one who should know better. What I was insinuating, in case you missed it, is that NS does in fact have a tighter schedule than the governor of South Carolina (or most other political office holders, for that matter).

Jon

troy12n 04-20-2012 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLEzero (Post 154422)
Unreal thread. Thanks for starting it. You really think NS cares if a roster shot is taken in perfect sweet evening light?

NS went to the trouble to hire someone to pay someone to shoot the units. That tells me they really dont care how they turn out... :roll::roll::roll:

Obviously not a professional photographer, but hey, they are paying him, right? If they really didnt care, they would just have "bubba, the second trick hostler who just got him a brand new iPhone" to shoot them

Quote:

Time is money... I can't believe you're ignorant enough to think NS should keep a new locomotive out of service longer than it needs to in order to get that 'perfect' shot.
Yea, an extra few hours is really going to affect NS's ability to move freight. It's not like they are some half-ass shortline who has N-1 enough running units to actually move their freight. Look at UP. They have an SD70ACe that moves 4 times a year, and only to do it's 90 day inspections (UP4141 George Bush unit)


Quote:

You should be happy NS recognizes RP enough to work out this deal in the first place. Sure they aren't perfect, that's not the point of these photos. You need to look no further than nscorp.com to see that NS doesn't care if a photo is artistically ground breaking and absolutely perfect according to an amateur train photographer web site.
Honestly this is the dumbest response yet. The quality of some of these shots is about on par with someone's flickr stream (no offense to some of the QUALITY flickr photostreams out there) or rrpicturearchives.

I should be happy they show up on railpictures first? Why exactly? I will see them eventually somewhere, you would think that RP would actually apply the same standards to these as they would to the rest of the gevo's they accept. If you cant see this is what I am getting at, I dont know how to help you.

JRMDC 04-20-2012 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 154423)
If you actually think that's what I was saying in my comment, then you are the one who should know better. What I was insinuating, in case you missed it, is that NS does in fact have a tighter schedule than the governor of South Carolina (or most other political office holders, for that matter).

Jon

Maybe you mean a more valuable schedule? I think these pols fill up their days with as much as they can, their job is in part to be "out there" in public. I doubt there is that much slack.

troy12n 04-20-2012 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 154425)
Maybe you mean a more valuable schedule? I think these pols fill up their days with as much as they can, their job is in part to be "out there" in public. I doubt there is that much slack.

I'd say most of their days are spent placating lobbyists.

jnohallman 04-20-2012 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 154425)
Maybe you mean a more valuable schedule? I think these pols fill up their days with as much as they can, their job is in part to be "out there" in public. I doubt there is that much slack.

I think you're right. Valuable is a better word.

Jon

EMTRailfan 04-20-2012 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154424)
Obviously not a professional photographer, but hey, they are paying him, right? If they really didnt care, they would just have "bubba, the second trick hostler who just got him a brand new iPhone" to shoot them

What exactly constitutes a "professional" photographer??? Someone like Casey who has had numerous photos in NS' calendar, among other publications, or someone that gets Top of 24 at least once/week, and maybe a Screener's Choice or 2 in their RP.net career?

nikos1 04-20-2012 04:00 AM

Indeed, Casey is one of the few photographers on here that I would call professionals. Who are you to say he is not one Troy? The roster shots are obviously not his best work but what could be done with the available lighting conditions at the time. The photos would be accepted to RP regardless of who took them, so the argument that they should be rejected is moot.

PLEzero 04-20-2012 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154424)
NS went to the trouble to hire someone to pay someone to shoot the units. That tells me they really dont care how they turn out... :roll::roll::roll:

Obviously not a professional photographer, but hey, they are paying him, right? If they really didnt care, they would just have "bubba, the second trick hostler who just got him a brand new iPhone" to shoot them


They didn't exactly go out of their way to find someone, it's his job. I'm sorry you don't approve of the quality of his work. There is a difference between perfection and "that'll do". I think NS has already jumped through enough hoops to please investors and the general public as well as a small minority of the population that genuinely cares. Just because some foamtard behind a keyboard thinks they should have waited a week for a sunny day and then had a picnic while the sun was 'in just the right spot' doesn't mean they should do it. There might be a few hundred people in the word that care if the trucks are a little too dark for their own personal liking. I'd bet good money none of those people have ever spent a dime to help the NS bottom line. So yes, they are paying Casey to take these photos which means they do care. Do they care if they're 'perfect', no, because sometimes it's not worth the effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 154424)
I should be happy they show up on railpictures first? Why exactly? I will see them eventually somewhere, you would think that RP would actually apply the same standards to these as they would to the rest of the gevo's they accept. If you cant see this is what I am getting at, I dont know how to help you.

I didn't say you should be happy the units are being premiered first on RP. I'm saying you should be happy NS is conscious enough of you as a foamer and this web site to even acknowledge it, let alone use it as a resource to show off their new units to the people that genuinely care the most (foamers).

I completely see what you're getting at, which is why I'm telling you you're a dumb ass for complaining about it. :wink: It's been well documented RP is willing to lower their standards for news worthy and rare photos. I'm not sure why you're suddenly so shocked these units would be any different. Look no further than the first Amtrak heritage unit photo on this site as proof. I'm sure if you search through Kilroy's previous posts you'll be able to find a number of instances where he has even stated such.

Maybe you're just a little butt-hurt they aren't paying you to take the photos? Judging by your photo stream I can see why they don't...


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