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-   -   Why? (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16563)

jnohallman 08-03-2013 09:57 PM

Why?
 
[photoid=445689]

Two whys. Why is this a better photo for being shot unlevel than level, especially with parts of the engine cropped out of the frame? And why is this acceptable for RP given the nitpickiness of the screeners over a few pubic hairs one way or the other in terms of level normally?

Just looking to start a discussion . . . :twisted:

Jon

JMC 08-03-2013 11:02 PM

It reminds me of the last thing a bug or deer sees before it dies.

JRMDC 08-04-2013 12:12 AM

Better: no such thing as "better," necessarily, but rotation can be used to increase dramatic impact or to change the "look" of an image. As for cropping, there is one look that is inclusive and another look that goes for aggressive cropping. The latter can "work" better than the former in some cases.

In this case part of the motive for cropping tight may be simply that this is not an engine, but rather some sort of a nose on display, and a wider crop would show all that emptiness. Had I been Nick I would not have identified it as a Siemens ACS-64 but rather as a display item of some sort.

Acceptable: glad to see it on. Non-level is an acceptable, sometimes interesting take on a scene. I only recall two intentional unlevels on RP, one by Steve Crise and one by Robin something, I think, the dark image with the train coming through and a bridge over the top. I can see RP avoiding such shots because RP becomes (more!) vulnerable to complaints about level. Not that RP shows any sign of being responsive to complaints, mind you, but I can see the volume of emails heading to admin rising a lot if unlevels were routinely accepted.

Mgoldman 08-04-2013 12:20 AM

The real "why" is why are some purposely unlevel shots accepted while others are not. After all, this is far less manipulated then others routinely accepted in the database. In fact, it was unlikely manipulated to any degree what so ever. Surely, it's subjective however - a possible onslaught of less tastefully done images could reek havoc in terms of "PEQ" rejections.
Kudos to the screener for accepting the risk and (re)opening the door to more creative, yet un-manipulated, possibilities.

As for the shot itself - there's a much great sense of excitement the way Nick has captured and presented the subject vs what would otherwise be a very dull and generic image of a rather dull and generic looking engine.

My compliments to Nick on this one, too. There are likely only a bare minimum of unlevel angles that would work as well as this one. And, in the context of this engine being just introduced and new, the presentation works all the better.

/Mitch

troy12n 08-04-2013 12:30 AM

Looks pretty artsy fartsy to me

MagnumForce 08-04-2013 04:54 AM

Makes it pretty dramatic to my eye. I like it.

BobE 08-04-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 168943)
I only recall two intentional unlevels on RP, one by Steve Crise and one by Robin something, I think, the dark image with the train coming through and a bridge over the top...

Steve Crise has several using what we used to call a "dutch tilt" to the camera. This rates the highest on the weird/disturbing scale:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...256273&nseq=69

Robin Coombes, great photo:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...350554&nseq=40

Ron Flanary 08-04-2013 01:12 PM

I think others have explained the "why" very well. I like the shot quite a bit. Excellent! Kudos to RP.net for accepting it.

JRMDC 08-04-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobE (Post 168956)
Steve Crise has several using what we used to call a "dutch tilt" to the camera. This rates the highest on the weird/disturbing scale:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...256273&nseq=69

Robin Coombes, great photo:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...350554&nseq=40

That's the one by Robin. The one by Steve, hadn't seen it before, woah!!

[photoid=256273]

Freericks 08-04-2013 04:46 PM

Quick, hide that before Holloren Grade sees it.

As to the original shot -it's what I would expect to see if searching Corbis or any other stock photo site for a train shot.

Mgoldman 08-05-2013 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 168961)
Quick, hide that before Holloren Grade sees it.

Lol - my thoughts exactly!

Seems we all have a dog in this fight.

/Mitch

DWHonan 08-05-2013 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 168969)
Seems we all have a dog in this fight.

/Mitch

Well played, sir!

On that note, I had a "rail" photo rejected tonight after being stuck in Queue Purgatory for nearly 48 hours. Maybe I should have simply written a caption saying "holy bleep it's 175 lb rail!" without getting into all the details of how it doesn't actually host trains.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...61&key=8993783

Joe the Photog 08-06-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 168941)
[photoid=445689]

While we're discussing the merits of that shot, it's hard to argue that this one isn't awesome, even if more typical --

[photoid=445687]

troy12n 08-07-2013 01:15 AM

That is one ugly locomotive.

Freericks 08-07-2013 01:37 AM

Are locomotives ugly and beautiful?

Joe the Photog 08-07-2013 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 169057)
That is one ugly locomotive.

I'd rather see those than CSX GEVOs

JimThias 08-07-2013 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 169060)
Are locomotives ugly and beautiful?

Yes. Those U-boat-whatever things are ugly. It's like the locomotive was punched in the nose. I had a model Chessie one when I was a kid and I hated it because of its ugliness.

travsirocz 08-08-2013 10:37 PM

That shot isn't unlevel. period.

The shot was taken at a specific angle to create dynamic impact and better composition. An unlevel image is an image that is suppose to be level and isn't. This image is far from trying to be level. Great image by the way.

jnohallman 08-08-2013 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travsirocz (Post 169131)
That shot isn't unlevel. period.

Except by RP's standards in which the rejection is specifically "horizon unlevel".

Quote:

Originally Posted by travsirocz (Post 169131)
The shot was taken at a specific angle to create dynamic impact and better composition. An unlevel image is an image that is suppose to be level and isn't. This image is far from trying to be level. Great image by the way.

Therein lay the second part of my question. Certainly is makes an impact. Is it better for it? That is in the eye of the beholder. In this case, obviously the screener thought so, but often they reject images that are "creative" because they run afoul of the rules.

Jon

travsirocz 08-08-2013 11:22 PM

Everyone gets hung up on this. RP has guidelines not rules. Guidelines fit the need for most photos but not all photos published or submitted. Final call is by the screener.
http://www.railpictures.net/addphotos/guidelines.php

cblaz 08-09-2013 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travsirocz (Post 169134)
RP has guidelines not rules.

Bingo. The "horizon unlevel" rejection is for when someone screws up a boring 3/4 wedgie. This shot is no boring 3/4 wedgie. I like it, and am glad (and jealous) Nick was able to check out the test and share some results with us.

- Chris

troy12n 08-09-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 169137)
Bingo. The "horizon unlevel" rejection is for when someone screws up a boring 3/4 wedgie. This shot is no boring 3/4 wedgie.

Oh yea, you are right, I forgot that the guidelines only apply to "boring wedgies".

I find it amazing that tilting the camera 30 something degrees of level transforms what would be a "boring wedgie" to something dramatic and awe inspiring. If that was a GEVO it wouldnt have been accepted.

I can see why hey accepted this one, it's not glaringly bad.

CSX1702 08-09-2013 12:09 PM

Anyone else seen the "horizon unlevel" album? :lol:

http://www.railpictures.net/album/276/

travsirocz 08-09-2013 02:31 PM

I guess not everyone sees the world as straightforward as it is. :)

Holloran Grade 08-15-2013 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks (Post 168961)
Quick, hide that before Holloren Grade sees it.

As to the original shot -it's what I would expect to see if searching Corbis or any other stock photo site for a train shot.

That has been one of my favorites for a number of years.

It also shows the tight wads of rail photography that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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